Hundreds killed in stampede in Mina, Saudi Arabia during the Hajj

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**Goliath**

BBC Article

BBC NEWS wrote:At least 717 people taking part in the Hajj pilgrimage have been killed in a stampede near the Islamic holy city of Mecca, officials in Saudi Arabia say.
Another 863 people were injured in the incident at Mina, which occurred as two million pilgrims were taking part in the Hajj's last major rite.
They converge on Mina to throw stones at pillars representing the devil.
Preparations for the Hajj were marred when a crane collapsed at Mecca's Grand Mosque this month, killing 109 people.
It is the deadliest incident to occur during the Hajj in 25 years.
Pilgrims travel to Mina, a large valley about 5km (3 miles) from Mecca, during the Hajj to throw seven stones at pillars called Jamarat, which represent the devil.
The pillars stand at three spots where Satan is believed to have tempted the Prophet Abraham.

There were Nigerians, Nigeriens, Chadians and Senegalese among other nationals. People were just climbing on top of others in order to move to a safer place and that's how some people died.
People were chanting Allah's name while others were crying, including children and infants. People fell on the ground seeking help but there was no-one to give them a helping hand. Everybody seemed to be on their own.

The Saudi civil defence directorate said in a statement that the stampede occurred at around 09:00 local time (06:00 GMT) at the junction of Street 204 and Street 223.
The pilgrims were walking towards the five-storey structure which surrounds the pillars, known as the Jamarat Bridge.
The incident happened when there was a "sudden increase" in the number of pilgrims heading towards the pillars, the statement said.
This "resulted in a stampede among the pilgrims and the collapse of a large number of them", it added.
Muslim pilgrims and rescuers gather around the victims of a stampede in Mina, Saudi Arabia during the annual hajj pilgrimage on Thursday, Sept. 24, 2015.

At least 43 Iranians were reportedly among the dead
Aerial view of the walkway leading to the pillars where pilgrims throw stones at pillars representing the devil in Mina
The incident occurred as pilgrims walked towards the Jamarat Bridge, where the pillars are located
Security personnel and the Saudi Red Crescent were "immediately" deployed to prevent more people heading towards the area, the directorate said.
The Saudi health minister, Khaled al-Falih, said the crush occurred because pilgrims failed to follow directions.
He said "many pilgrims move without respecting the timetables" established by authorities.

The hundreds of wounded have been taken to four hospitals in the area by the more than 220 rescue vehicles sent to the scene.
Amateur video and photographs posted on social media showed the bodies of dozens of pilgrims on the ground. They were all dressed in the simple white garments worn during the Hajj.
The civil defence directorate said the victims were of "different nationalities", without providing details.
Iran's state news agency, Irna, said at least 43 Iranians were among the dead.
Pilgrims cast stones at a pillar representing the devil - the last major rite of the Hajj, in Mina, Saudi Arabia

The UK Foreign Office said it was in contact with the local authorities and was urgently seeking more information about whether British nationals were involved.
Saudi-owned al-Arabiya TV reported that the head of the central Hajj committee, Prince Khaled al-Faisal, had blamed the stampede on "some pilgrims with African nationalities".
But the head of Iran's Hajj organisation, Said Ohadi, told Irna that two paths close to the scene of the incident had been inexplicably closed off by the Saudi authorities, resulting in the build-up in pilgrims.

Absolutely horrible news, especially on what is supposed to be one of the holiest days of the islamic calendar.

**whembly**

Oh man... that sucks.

What that many people, how do you prevent this?

**LordofHats**

Well that's a damn downer.

**Ghazkuul**

This happens every single year, at this point nobody is surprised.

**MeanGreenStompa**

I wonder if there's a sectarian angle to these deaths...

**LordofHats**

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
I wonder if there's a sectarian angle to these deaths...

Well at the very least, the various groups seem to be looking to blame others for causing it. Saudis say "some black dudes did it." Iranians saying "well it wouldn't have happened if the Saudis didn't feth up."

**Frazzled**

Wooo.

**Kap'n Krump**

Ghazkuul wrote:
This happens every single year, at this point nobody is surprised.

It really does. Whenever you get thousands and thousands and thousands of people just standing around in a big clump, these things happen.

Hell, it happens at walmart on black Friday (though to a far lesser degree, admittedly).

Read about similar stories on pilgrimages in india as well.

**Goliath**

Kap'n Krump wrote:
Ghazkuul wrote:
This happens every single year, at this point nobody is surprised.

It really does. Whenever you get thousands and thousands and thousands of people just standing around in a big clump, these things happen.

Hell, it happens at walmart on black Friday (though to a far lesser degree, admittedly).

Read about similar stories on pilgrimages in india as well.

Well, wikipedia is saying that the last time anything happened on this scale was 2006, so you're either incorrect or getting confused with other stampedes.

**jhe90**

Im sure this section of it had a huge crush and loads killed in something 2006 or near then.

but controling 2.2 million is never going to be easy

**Kilkrazy**

Probably there is a stampede mass crushing somewhere in the world every year. It does happen fairly frequently at the Hajj due to the huge number of people present, but not every year. After the last occurrence they rebuilt the relevant bridge and pillars to accomodate more pilgrims, but clearly something went wrong.

**Freakazoitt**

It's tragedy to die during holy days. Organizers aren't competent

**-Shrike-**

LordofHats wrote:
MeanGreenStompa wrote:
I wonder if there's a sectarian angle to these deaths...

Well at the very least, the various groups seem to be looking to blame others for causing it. Saudis say "some black dudes did it." Iranians saying "well it wouldn't have happened if the Saudis didn't feth up."

You'd have thought they should have enough respect for the dead to wait more than a few hours before blaming everyone else. I really hope nobody I know went this year.

**Ghazkuul**

Goliath wrote:
Kap'n Krump wrote:
Ghazkuul wrote:
This happens every single year, at this point nobody is surprised.

It really does. Whenever you get thousands and thousands and thousands of people just standing around in a big clump, these things happen.

Hell, it happens at walmart on black Friday (though to a far lesser degree, admittedly).

Read about similar stories on pilgrimages in india as well.
Well, wikipedia is saying that the last time anything happened on this scale was 2006, so you're either incorrect or getting confused with other stampedes.

Im not referring to "Crush" deaths, but deaths in general, every single year a large number of people die on the Hajj, usually its from heart failure or exhaustion and other things like that. This years numbers are significantly higher because something terrible happened. The point I was trying to make though is that the Hajj kills people every year.

**jhe90**

True, but maybe the saudi authorities need to consider the maximum capacity they can safely handle, yes they have enlarged everything on a giant scale and built the worlds largest holy site by capacity and such but even they will have to apcepet that there is a safe limit.

**Jihadin**

Freakazoitt wrote:
It's tragedy to die during holy days. Organizers aren't competent

Bolded the key word. Even Rome (LONG LIVE SPQR!!!) couldn't really get a good handle on it on these type of events. In the US of A we sell tickets to limit the audience participation

**welshhoppo**

Double problems this year, a crane crashed into the grand mosque a few weeks ago.

Seriously, this has been going on for hundreds of years, it needs much better organisation.

**Aszubaruzah Surn**

Ghazkuul wrote:
This happens every single year, at this point nobody is surprised.

Thought I heard about something like this happening already.

Anyway, reminds me of that scene in Inquisition War Trilogy where something like this happens and Jaq Draco rejoices that people die for Emperor this way.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

jhe90 wrote:
Im sure this section of it had a huge crush and loads killed in something 2006 or near then.

but controling 2.2 million is never going to be easy

Looks like man isn't a learning animal.

**AlexHolker**

Aszubaruzah Surn wrote:
jhe90 wrote:
Im sure this section of it had a huge crush and loads killed in something 2006 or near then.

but controling 2.2 million is never going to be easy

Looks like man isn't a learning animal.

They did learn. The entire area around the Jamarat pillars has been reengineered to reduce the likelihood of such incidents, once in 2004 and again in 2006, to increase capacity, make it faster and safer. This crush did not happen at the pillars, it happened half a mile away when two crowds entered the same T-junction street, and presumably the people at the back could not see that the people at the front were caught in a bottleneck.

**yellowfever**

The whole incident doesn't suprise me. Including how they handle it and how they treated each other afterwards.

**jhe90**

Early records put it at 50,000 people, its gone a very long way in a century to 2 million plus, at a high of 3 million one year.

Yes advanced alot but they have hit what seems like the safe limit. No matter what they do they cannot scale up forever. The central mosque is forever being enlarged but still, at the price of demolishing most of the history.

It takes 100,000 to Marshall and run, its a giant logistical nightmare.

**marv335**

The key word missing from this report is "Again"

**welshhoppo**

jhe90 wrote:
Early records put it at 50,000 people, its gone a very long way in a century to 2 million plus, at a high of 3 million one year.

Yes advanced alot but they have hit what seems like the safe limit. No matter what they do they cannot scale up forever. The central mosque is forever being enlarged but still, at the price of demolishing most of the history.

It takes 100,000 to Marshall and run, its a giant logistical nightmare.

Oh indeed. They reckon that 85% of the original Mecca has been demolished in the past thirty years. Kind of defeats the purpose of the pilgrimage if none of the original city is left.

**Jihadin**

It works in Europe for you known driving....nvm........think these work next time? Replace image of vehicle but with people merging

**Psienesis**

That isn't actually what happens, this is:

(slightly NSFW)

Spoiler:

**jhe90**

welshhoppo wrote:
jhe90 wrote:
Early records put it at 50,000 people, its gone a very long way in a century to 2 million plus, at a high of 3 million one year.

Yes advanced alot but they have hit what seems like the safe limit. No matter what they do they cannot scale up forever. The central mosque is forever being enlarged but still, at the price of demolishing most of the history.

It takes 100,000 to Marshall and run, its a giant logistical nightmare.

Oh indeed. They reckon that 85% of the original Mecca has been demolished in the past thirty years. Kind of defeats the purpose of the pilgrimage if none of the original city is left.

Yeah even there own holy prophets house was demolished or slated for in another project or expansion, its all a huge industry for the bin larden group, they get loads of juicey contracts.

Merge in turn, all well and good till a driver has a big German car lol

**Orlanth**

welshhoppo wrote:
jhe90 wrote:
Early records put it at 50,000 people, its gone a very long way in a century to 2 million plus, at a high of 3 million one year.

Yes advanced alot but they have hit what seems like the safe limit. No matter what they do they cannot scale up forever. The central mosque is forever being enlarged but still, at the price of demolishing most of the history.

It takes 100,000 to Marshall and run, its a giant logistical nightmare.

Oh indeed. They reckon that 85% of the original Mecca has been demolished in the past thirty years. Kind of defeats the purpose of the pilgrimage if none of the original city is left.

The city is not relevant, only the shrine is relevant.

**Vaktathi**

whembly wrote:
Oh man... that sucks.

What that many people, how do you prevent this?

It's really hard, and, as pointed out earlier, happens basically every year (or close enough to feel like it). You've got people from all across the world and every conceivable socio-economic background from wealthy Europeans & Americans to illiterate Afghans & everything in between, almost the entire spectrum of humanity and all of its varied social & cultural differences, all swarming into an area and undertaking large mass movements, and avoiding tragedy is an insanely difficult task. I'm actually rather impressed the Saudi's manage to keep things as orderly as they do.

**Aszubaruzah Surn**

AlexHolker wrote:
Aszubaruzah Surn wrote:
jhe90 wrote:
Im sure this section of it had a huge crush and loads killed in something 2006 or near then.

but controling 2.2 million is never going to be easy

Looks like man isn't a learning animal.

They did learn. The entire area around the Jamarat pillars has been reengineered to reduce the likelihood of such incidents, once in 2004 and again in 2006, to increase capacity, make it faster and safer. This crush did not happen at the pillars, it happened half a mile away when two crowds entered the same T-junction street, and presumably the people at the back could not see that the people at the front were caught in a bottleneck.

Nah, sane people start with not having millions of people swarm into one place.

**Frazzled**

Aszubaruzah Surn wrote:
AlexHolker wrote:
Aszubaruzah Surn wrote:
jhe90 wrote:
Im sure this section of it had a huge crush and loads killed in something 2006 or near then.

but controling 2.2 million is never going to be easy

Looks like man isn't a learning animal.

They did learn. The entire area around the Jamarat pillars has been reengineered to reduce the likelihood of such incidents, once in 2004 and again in 2006, to increase capacity, make it faster and safer. This crush did not happen at the pillars, it happened half a mile away when two crowds entered the same T-junction street, and presumably the people at the back could not see that the people at the front were caught in a bottleneck.

Nah, sane people start with not having millions of people swarm into one place.

What are you talking about? Its a personal crusade required by God if a person is able. The fact millions go through every year, including two sects are are very very busily killing each other right now, is testament to their efforts.
Your statement is the insane one. Way to insult A BILLION PEOPLE there pal.