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Hi,

Is there a difference between phrase "shooting attack" (singular) and "shooting attacks" (plural) when it comes to ability to shoot by the unit?
I would like to know if it is possible to determine if "shooting attack" (singular) referes to:
a) entire shooting sequence for a unit - ability to fire all weapons;
b) one iteration of shooting sequence - ability to use one type of weapon - ignore step no.7 in sequence;
c) shoot from only one weapon from a unit;
d) only one bullet fired from one weapon;

While reading The Shooting Phase section in rulebook I found various uses of that phrase.
For example - in Shooting Sequence we have this statement:
NOMINATE A UNIT TO SHOOT
During the Shooting phase, a unit containing models armed with ranged weapons can be nominated to make shooting attacks.
So a unit with multiple models do "shooting attacks" (plural) not "shooting attack" (singular).

Is it possible to deny abylity to make shooting attacks (plural) by the unit if the rule allow them to make shooting attack (singular)? I mean to deny ability to fire all of it's weapons and force to choose only one?

Do you have a specific situation or example in mind? Context, generally, is everything.

EDIT: Here we go, just before the Shooting Sequence at the beginning of the Shooting Phase section:

"Once you have completed steps 1 to 7 for each unit in your army that you wish to make a shooting attack, carry on to the Assault phase."

That tells you a shooting attack from a unit includes all steps and therefore all weapons/shots the unit is able or has the choice to fire.

 Mr. Shine wrote:
Do you have a specific situation or example in mind? Context, generally, is everything.

Actually I wanted clean approach to the problem

Contex 1:
An Overwatch attack is resolved like a normal shooting attack (albeit one resolved in the enemy’s Assault phase) and uses all the normal rules for range, line of sight, cover saves and so on.

My opponent claimed that my Dreadnought wasn't allowed to overwatch with flamer and meltagun because it was allowed to make one shooting attack. Would it be allowed to overwatch if it was equipped with two flamers instead?
And yes, I know that vehilces and walkers can fire all of it's weapons - that is not the issue.
I always played that Walkers fire all of their weapons in Overwatch, but now I'm not so sure.
So I wan't to be sure

Context 2:
Coteaz I've Been Expectin You: (...) unit can (...) make (...) shooting attack (...).
This one came up when I was trying to figure out what shooting attack / shooting attacks mean.

Answered above, as you may now see. In short, your opponent was wrong.

 Mr. Shine wrote:
Answered above, as you may now see. In short, your opponent was wrong.

Well yes, but later rule states that multiple models in unit make shooting attakcs not shooting attack. And that is a little confusing.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also this gives argument to my opponent to not allow to use multiple weapons in overwach...

Walkers only have permission to fire all their weapons in the Shooting Phase, but it does state that only if they moved.

Vehicles are allowed to shoot all their weapons if they did not move, but it does not limit it to the Shooting Phase like most other multiple weapon shooting rules (see Monstrous Creatures for an example of most other).

Overwatch does not restrict the unit from only making attacks with one weapon and one model. And the plural of the attacks is accounting for the multiple models and weapons the unit may have.

Charistoph wrote:
Walkers only have permission to fire all their weapons in the Shooting Phase, but it does state that only if they moved.

Vehicles are allowed to shoot all their weapons if they did not move, but it does not limit it to the Shooting Phase like most other multiple weapon shooting rules (see Monstrous Creatures for an example of most other).

Overwatch does not restrict the unit from only making attacks with one weapon and one model. And the plural of the attacks is accounting for the multiple models and weapons the unit may have.

Like I said, I know how vehicles and walkers shoot . The problem I have with colleague is to prove that Overwatch allow for make shooting attacks when the rule say:
- Then, the target enemy unit gets to make a special kind of shooting attack called Overwatch
- (...)unit can immediately fire Overwatch(...)
- Overwatch attack is resolved like a normal shooting attack(...)
singular form in every case;

Of cours this has additional repercussions - infantry unit would be allowed to fire only one type of weapons - ie bolters but not heavy bolter.

I know intentions in this rule, but don't know how to prove it

In a normal shooting attack (singular), your unit can potentially fire multiple weapons. If I have a Tactical unit where the Sarge and 8 of the Marines have Bolters while the 10th has a Heavy Bolter, a normal shooting attack (singular) would consist of making attacks for 9 Bolters and the Heavy Bolter.

 danyboy wrote:
I know intentions in this rule, but don't know how to prove it

I've given you the rules quote you need.

"Once you have completed steps 1 to 7 for each unit in your army that you wish to make a shooting attack, carry on to the Assault phase."

This tells you very clearly that a unit's shooting attack (singular) includes steps 1 to 7 of the Shooting Sequence, therfefore it includes all weapons they choose and/or are able to shoot with.

It's really that simple.

 Mr. Shine wrote:
It's really that simple.

Yes and no But thanks I'll try to stick to that argument.

Have you got a more advanced rule that says a unit's shooting attack does not include steps 1-7 of the Shooting Sequence?

Mr Shine thanks, the problem is that english is not my native language, that is why I asked here, not on my Polish forum.
I'll stick to that argument.

Sense we are talking about overwatch and shooting ill just drop this question here.

Do you only get 1 shot in overwatch period or does your weapon profile grant multiple shots for overwatch?

If my shoota boyz are assaulted and choose to overwatch does their shootas "Assault 2" grant 2 overwatch shots?

If my Space Marines are assaulted and choose to overwatch does their Bolters "Rapid Fire" grant 2 overwatch shots?

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
Sense we are talking about overwatch and shooting ill just drop this question here.

Do you only get 1 shot in overwatch period or does your weapon profile grant multiple shots for overwatch?

If my shoota boyz are assaulted and choose to overwatch does their shootas "Assault 2" grant 2 overwatch shots?

If my Space Marines are assaulted and choose to overwatch does their Bolters "Rapid Fire" grant 2 overwatch shots?

You get the full weapon profile - this is why it's important to do overwatch at the correct step (before moving chargers), as some models in the overwatching unit may be out of range or outside of rapid fire double-tap range, our outside of LoS.

The exception is Template weapons, which generate D3 hits regardless of the number of shots in their profile.