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Anrakyr-the-Traveller wrote: However, even a necron warrior is more powerful than a space marine. One could argue this point, but I say that warriors are more durable, and have better weaponry, while space marines are much faster. Now a space marine is the very peak of the human fighting machine. They are the elite of the elite, and no one can stand against them. Now imagine an imperium where everyone is a space marine, but more durable, equipped with a gun that can punch a hole in anything, totally devoted to the war effort, and completely self-sufficient. That is what the orks would be up against.
That's a bit of a stretch, don't you think? Surely they would have easily destroyed the Eldar if a single Necron warrior was that powerful.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/11 22:14:34
Furyou Miko wrote: As for the time travel... time wars are so... ugh. You know what happens if two time travelling cultures get in a war against each other?
You end up with one of two outcomes: They obliterate the universe through paradox, or they end up sealing themselves outside time entirely.
Ugh, I hate that time travel is a thing in this setting. Time distortion in the Warp is cool (because it makes sense) but this stuff just breaks the believability of the setting. And if Necrons and Orks can travel... then the Old Ones probably could too... and the Dark Eldar with their high tech toys (mini black holes and stuff) probably could too... And the Emperor could probably figure out a way to do it too... since he did explore the galaxy and stuff by himself... and so on. Actually wait, the setting has perpetuals. Never mind...
dusara217 wrote: The Old Ones (the guys who genetically engineered half the Sentients in the galaxy) designed the Eldar and the Krork (ancestors of modern Orks) to use the Warp to counter the Necrons. It didn't work. The Necrons and the C'tan roflstomped the species the Old Ones designed to kill them (not that the Old Ones' creations didn't put up a fight, but it's kind of hard to kill things that have power on par with minor Chaos Gods). If you want a source for this, just look up the War in Heaven on the wiki or on lexicanum or 1d4Chan.
That's not what happened. The main reason the Old Ones lost and the reason the Necrons went into hibernation was the Enslaver Plague, caused by the Old Ones trying to weaponize the Warp. In fact, the Old Ones were winning the war against the Necrons up to that point. As far as I'm aware, all three sources you cited (the lexicanum, wikia, and 1d4 - which doesn't cite sources btw) all agree on that (actually, the old Necron codex does too - most of the fluff is from that codex).
dusara217 wrote: This is part of the reason that I say that C'tan Shards (when all are used in conjunction) would be on par with G/Mork. The Old Ones dominated the galaxy through sheer psychic power, and there were millions of them. It's even hypothesized that the Eldar Pantheon was composed primarily of former Old Ones that the Eldar worshiped as Gods (which fed them even more power).They were literally the most Psychically powerful race in all of 40k (numbering in the millions, at least, likely in the billions), and they STILL got curbstomped by the C'tan/Necrons. AND they were supported by the original Orks, Eldar, and dozens of other redonculously powerful psychic races.
Note: Modern fluff doesn't reflect this in the slightest, most of this information comes from old stuff.
Where are the Old Ones' numbers ever mentioned in fluff? And again, the Old Ones were close to defeating the Necrons, not the other way around. But they fethed up the Warp in the process.
Ashiraya wrote: Of course, that the Old Ones were doing good against the Necrons doesn't really say anything about the Necrons, only about the Old Ones.
The Old Ones and their creations. And that the Necrons didn't "crubstomp/roflstomp" the Old Ones, which is just blatantly false. It also means the Necrons, while powerful, aren't as all powerful as some are making them out to be.
The Necrons are also one-dimensional and boring. That's in the old fluff. I don't even know what they're doing anymore in the new fluff. If they were powerful enough to defeat the Old Ones and trap the C'tan in shards, why can't they find (or make, as the Old Ones would) a suitable species for biotransference?
Ashiraya wrote: I am not surprised that united Orks and united Eldar and the Old Ones were pushing back the Necrons.
Here's what happened:
Necrons fought Old Ones. Old Ones were winning. Necrons begged C'tan for help. Old Ones created several species to fight back. Old Ones were winning again, but then the Enslaver Plague happened, and everybody lost.
Necrons use tech and the C'tan (or, since we're talking old fluff, the C'tan use Necrons and their tech), Old Ones use their powers of creation. Implying that the Necrons were more powerful than the Old Ones is god-modding.
Ashiraya wrote: I am not surprised that united Orks and united Eldar and the Old Ones were pushing back the Necrons.
Here's what happened:
Necrons fought Old Ones. Old Ones were winning. Necrons begged C'tan for help. Old Ones created several species to fight back. Old Ones were winning again, but then the Enslaver Plague happened, and everybody lost.
Necrons use tech and the C'tan (or, since we're talking old fluff, the C'tan use Necrons and their tech), Old Ones use their powers of creation. Implying that the Necrons were more powerful than the Old Ones is god-modding.
You've got some mistakes in that synopsis, let me clear them up.
The necrontyr declared war on the old ones to stop the wars of secession. Despite their superior numbers and tech, they got massacred because of the old one's superior maneuverability and warp powers. The necrontyr were driven back, but the old ones were either too merciful, to uncaring, or to arrogant to finish them off. The second wars of secession started, and the necrontyr appeared to be completely fethed.
At this point, the necrontyr encountered the C'tan, or the C'tan found them, there is contradictory fluff about this. The deceiver offered to help them fight the old ones, and grant the necrons immortality (which they had coveted for millennia). This resulted in the necrontyr being turned into the necrons. At this point, the tide of the war turned. The old ones were fethed after the necron breached the webway. In desperation, they tried to unleash the endlaver plague, which just accelerated the end of the war.
This is all paraphrased from the 5th Ed necron codex.
Basically, the necrons did better than you are giving the credit for, and it isn't a stretch to say that they were more powerful than the old ones.
Seems like the 5th ed codex changed the fluff, adding in the Wars of Secession. I guess the Necrons really are that OP in the new fluff.
Which means, I was wrong, according to the 5th codex retcon. Sorry dusara! (you did say old fluff!)
So now the Necrons went into hibernation because of the Eldar (yes, yes, weakened fighting the C'tan, I know)? The old fluff had them go into hibernation because the Enslavers Plague meant the C'tan didn't have enough to feed on - much more interesting.
OP or not, imo the Necron fluff is a mess. It makes the Old Ones seem like idiot pushovers, whereas they were god-like in the old fluff. And stuff like the pylons on Cadia don't really make sense with the new fluff (it's implied that they were put there by the C'tan/Necrons to push back the Warp - which was their greatest weakness in the War in Heaven).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/10/23 19:47:51
