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Okay, here's the thing: How do the Dark Angels and Space Wolves?

General consensus seems to be that the two hate each other, but I've also heard that they've made up, leading to being BATTUL BRUVAs, friendly rivals, "Vitriolic Best Buds" or just having begrudging professional respect. The crunch doesn't tell me anything helpful: They're allied as Battle Brothers but so are the Ultramarines and the Black Templars which is about as fluffy as a snake.

Since I can't seem to get it straight and I'm quite curious about this due to my preferences (as someone who really likes the Unforgiven and can't stand those heretical mutants) and since it actually ties into the fluff of my army (namely due to why I've got two chapters of the First Legion kinda merged into one army, long story but I'll give details if anyone's curious. Doesn't have a lot to do with the Wolves but it's kinda related), I've decided to ask you guys who have more experience with the fluff: Where do these two stand regarding each other?

Sorry for no doubt sounding like a complete noob but every fluff thing I read about the interactions between the two seems to suggest something different and discussions about it seem to pull in different directions and I guess I just don't really know who's got the wrong end of the stick.

Thanks in advance!

I think it is open to interpretation.

I see it as a sibling rivalry, the fact that they have ritualised honour duels shows that they have worked together plenty of times in the past.

It's almost like a "no body beats up my brother but me" situation, except they don't even beat each other up properly anyway.

Pretty simple: way back, over 10,000 years ago russ and johnnson got in a squable over honour, they fought to a standstill and johnnson got the upper hand.

There was some severe animosity for a bit. Now it is simply that the forces meet, and 2 champs re-enact the duel. It is a bonding thing between the 2 groups; they share this history and so when encountering eachother they have this ritual, to an outside observer it would seem like they hate eachother but it is really about respect and brotherhood.

Kind of like 2 guys that constantly berate eachother, possibly coming to blows, but are still/actually great friends.

If anybody would be friends its those two.

Neither of them particularly like the Imperium, and follow it's rules tenuously.

There are 3 instances of where the Dark Angels and the Wolves have come to blows, causing the rivalry. I have them from an old White Dwarf issue (#233). The third is what causes the bond.

The first instance is Dulan, where the Lion and his Dark Angels deliver the killing blow. Feeling slighted, as Russ and his Wolves had been iin the thick of the fighting, attacked the Lion. After a long fight Russ saw the error of his ways and began to laugh. Lion not appreciating this struck him, knocking the Lion out cold. This is where the honour duels comes into play.

The second is on there journey to Terra. I am a bit hazy on this one but it involves a Chaos Spawn that has infiltrated the command carrier on their ship and is sowing dissent amongst the Primarchs. It eventually is killed but some damage has been done to their relationship.

The third is after the battle of Terra and the Emperor is wounded. Russ blames the Lion for their delay in getting to Terra to help the Emperor (Or it might be the other way around) Russ bares his chest to the Lion who stabs him, moving the blade away from the heart at the last minute, realising that it is his grief that has caused this anger. When Russ recovers bonds are forged anew and the Dark Angels and the Wolves forge new bonds.

I honestly hope they keep true to this, rather than just Dulan. I will have a look at the WD later and make a correction if I need to.

Pretty simple, DA and SW are like actual brothers, they'll fight every once and while, but in the end they will fight to the bitter end for each other.

edited

For Astartes standards they're on bad terms. It goes back to a fight Leman Russ and Lion El'Jonson had in the Great Crusade. Yes, they've been keeping a grudge for 10,000 years.

That being said they will help one another if need be. The Dark Angels saved Leman Russ/the Space Wolves when they were attacked by the Alpha Legion during the Heresy.

 Harriticus wrote:
For Astartes standards they're on bad terms. It goes back to a fight Leman Russ and Lion El'Jonson had in the Great Crusade. Yes, they've been keeping a grudge for 10,000 years.

That being said they will help one another if need be. The Dark Angels saved Leman Russ/the Space Wolves when they were attacked by the Alpha Legion during the Heresy.

this fits the quarrelsome brothers perspective;

Lion: Oi! Alph! No one puts my lil bro in a headlock but me!

Russ: Back off Leo, I had him just where I wanted him!

Lion: yeah yea

Russ: punches big brother for LOLZ.

Both: punch Alpharius. For some reason each one has an Alpharius to punch.

To be continued...?

nareik wrote:
I think it is open to interpretation.

I see it as a sibling rivalry, the fact that they have ritualised honour duels shows that they have worked together plenty of times in the past.

It's almost like a "no body beats up my brother but me" situation, except they don't even beat each other up properly anyway.

I support this view.

From what I gather when reading the fluff, they simply share brotherly rivalry. As has already been pointed out, they are brothers that fight each other but deep down there is no animosity or hatred towards each other. I can't remember if it was the recent Space Wolves codex where it said that Russ disappeared into the Eye in search of his friend the Lion.

So essentially, they fight a bit, disagree about a few things and annoy each other, but are still battle brothers to the end. Because of their long history, there is a unique bond between the two chapters.

I like to pretend every time there are Vampires and Werewolves, its Twilight...I mean Underworld...

I like to pretend that some how Sisters of Battle are caught in the middle of Blood Angels and Space Wolves fighting. I like to pretend there is a small group of Sisters who bit off more than they can chew and send out a distress signal. Both the Blood Angels and Space Wolves are nearby heed the call. The Blood Angels appear first and as they arrive, they sparkle in the sun light....Yeah this already sounds too much like Twilight. Oh and there is a Mexican Space Wolf that likes to take off his armor and show off his abs... every chance he gets...

 Filch wrote:
I like to pretend every time there are Vampires and Werewolves, its Twilight...I mean Underworld...

I like to pretend that some how Sisters of Battle are caught in the middle of Blood Angels and Space Wolves fighting. I like to pretend there is a small group of Sisters who bit off more than they can chew and send out a distress signal. Both the Blood Angels and Space Wolves are nearby heed the call. The Blood Angels appear first and as they arrive, they sparkle in the sun light....Yeah this already sounds too much like Twilight. Oh and there is a Mexican Space Wolf that likes to take off his armor and show off his abs... every chance he gets...

10/10 would watch

Thanks everyone, I think I fully understand now, it's really cleared things up!

 Filch wrote:
I like to pretend every time there are Vampires and Werewolves, its Twilight...I mean Underworld...

I like to pretend that some how Sisters of Battle are caught in the middle of Blood Angels and Space Wolves fighting. I like to pretend there is a small group of Sisters who bit off more than they can chew and send out a distress signal. Both the Blood Angels and Space Wolves are nearby heed the call. The Blood Angels appear first and as they arrive, they sparkle in the sun light....Yeah this already sounds too much like Twilight. Oh and there is a Mexican Space Wolf that likes to take off his armor and show off his abs... every chance he gets...