Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey guys,

I did a Google search and couldn't get a definitive answer to this question so here goes:

With all these Chapters that don't know who their Primarchs are, who their predecessor Chapter was, etc etc (e.g. Blood Ravens) get their gene-seed stocks from?

Cheers Guys

They extract their own gene seeds from progenoids like all other chapters do. The information about the very first gene seed stock that was used to found their chapter is usually lost along with their origins.

Or the High Lords / Mechanicus know but aren't telling...

Do they not have DNA testing in W40k

Aralon56 wrote:
Do they not have DNA testing in W40k

What is a DNA and how do you weaponize it?

Aralon56 wrote:
Do they not have DNA testing in W40k

They do (it's actually a plot point in the Shira Calpurnia novel Legacy) - but it's not like there's Primarch DNA everywhere for them to check against.

IllumiNini wrote:
Hey guys,

I did a Google search and couldn't get a definitive answer to this question so here goes:

With all these Chapters that don't know who their Primarchs are, who their predecessor Chapter was, etc etc (e.g. Blood Ravens) get their gene-seed stocks from?

Cheers Guys

If you mean, where did they get their founding gene-seed from, the answer is:

An unlabelled bottle of gene-seed, found somewhere on Terra. It'll be fine.

Else, its from others of their chapter.

beast_gts wrote:

Aralon56 wrote:
Do they not have DNA testing in W40k

They do (it's actually a plot point in the Shira Calpurnia novel Legacy) - but it's not like there's Primarch DNA everywhere for them to check against.

But could they not send a sample to all the founding chapters and ask them to check it against there own .

They could do, but remember that the Primarchs are/were brothers and that there's been 10,000 years of mutation, modification and degeneration so they might not be able to match with any accuracy.

Also, that would require transparency within the system, and that isnt very grimdark. Part of having unknown founding chapters is that you get to make up the back story that you want them to have and make your own head canon.

There are a ton of things the IoM could do that would answer a lot of questions / make thier system more effecient / solve problems, but they never will.

Further, even if the HLoT reqested every chapter to send in a sample of geneseed for extensive testing and comparison, a lot of chapters would have some serious problems. I mean the blood angels are basically space vampires and arent real big on other people finding out about their geneseed flaws. Im sure a lot of other chapters have a similar distaste for people prodding around.

Remember, most of what is "unknown" is from a in-universe perspective, so someone proly knows, they just arent saying

taurising wrote:
Further, even if the HLoT reqested every chapter to send in a sample of geneseed for extensive testing and comparison, a lot of chapters would have some serious problems.

Ehh... Every Chapter is required to send a percentage of their geneseed as tithe to Mars for purity tests and stockpiles toward founding new Chapters. It's tax evasion if they don't, a serious crime. So the AdMech and High Lords of Terra pretty much know what needs be known. Blood Angels flaw, Space Wolf sensitivity to mutation etc. But telling some Chapter what the tests show is another matter.

And a Chapter isn't going to send out samples at random for testing. Geneseed is holy, a relic passed down to them from the Primarchs and through them the Emperor. It would be even more sacreligious than allowing your wargear to be captured. The marines are also stupidly proud and would have major problems with asking for help in such a matter. It would be shameful to admit losing the knowledge and insufferably galling to be indebted to a Genetor Magos etc.

Blood Ravens come from the Thousand sons. Their Primarch is Magnus.

Spetulhu wrote:

taurising wrote:
Further, even if the HLoT reqested every chapter to send in a sample of geneseed for extensive testing and comparison, a lot of chapters would have some serious problems.

Ehh... Every Chapter is required to send a percentage of their geneseed as tithe to Mars for purity tests and stockpiles toward founding new Chapters. It's tax evasion if they don't, a serious crime. So the AdMech and High Lords of Terra pretty much know what needs be known. Blood Angels flaw, Space Wolf sensitivity to mutation etc. But telling some Chapter what the tests show is another matter.

And a Chapter isn't going to send out samples at random for testing. Geneseed is holy, a relic passed down to them from the Primarchs and through them the Emperor. It would be even more sacreligious than allowing your wargear to be captured. The marines are also stupidly proud and would have major problems with asking for help in such a matter. It would be shameful to admit losing the knowledge and insufferably galling to be indebted to a Genetor Magos etc.

As I was, excellent point Sir.

I maintain though that does make my point that someone, somewhere knows the lineage of each chapter (proly not one person knowing them all, but the guy in charge of reciving chapter x's tithe knows who the parent chapter is, even for the "unknown" ones)

Blood Ravens come from the Thousand sons. Their Primarch is Magnus.

Is there a source for that? I dont remember ever seeing that in canon

taurising wrote:

Blood Ravens come from the Thousand sons. Their Primarch is Magnus.

Is there a source for that? I dont remember ever seeing that in canon

The DoW series is rife with implications, as are references in HH and 40k books.

 Selym wrote:

taurising wrote:

Blood Ravens come from the Thousand sons. Their Primarch is Magnus.

Is there a source for that? I dont remember ever seeing that in canon

The DoW series is rife with implications, as are references in HH and 40k books.

I remember seeing some debate on the issue, didn't think it was a definate though.

while never outright stated with all the hints, its pretty much 99 percent certain that is the case.

taurising wrote:

 Selym wrote:

taurising wrote:

Blood Ravens come from the Thousand sons. Their Primarch is Magnus.

Is there a source for that? I dont remember ever seeing that in canon

The DoW series is rife with implications, as are references in HH and 40k books.

I remember seeing some debate on the issue, didn't think it was a definate though.

Its strongly implied but the Blood Ravens are super secretive about their origins and go out of their way to gain (to keep in secret or destroy) any information related to their past. It could also be that the Blood Ravens are from the gene seeds of one of the Lost Legions which would also fit with why they are so secretive about their past.

Secretive about past
Red color scheme
High occurrence of psykers
Cordivae means "raven"

The first 3 could be explained as weird coincidences... But the cordivae/raven connection heavily implies it, at least in my opinion.

Bluhd Rehvens are not secretive about it, they simply haven't the foggiest clue where they're from, because their records were lost.

Source: Dawn of War GOTY Edition Instruction Manual.

They like to hoard information because they feel insecure about not knowing themselves.

So let me try to sum this up haha:

Each Chapter sends their tithe to Mars and their gene-seed stock is replicated and stored for the purposes having having a ability to rapidly regenerate their Chapter (should the need ever arise) and also for the purposed of future foundings.

And back to our favourite example of the Blood Ravens, their records for lost, so they don't know who's gene-seed stock they took. As for other Chapters, I would imagine that a similar lack of records is really the only explanation for their lack of knowledge about their Primarch etc? Unless I'm missing some other way of explaining their lack of info.

As for the DNA testing, I reckon it would depend on how much is known about when they were founded as well as a narrowed down list of which Chapter they may have got their gene-seed from. That might ake it a bit easier, but it'd still be bloody hard, and as mentioned in previous posts, mutation makes a significant difference.

Blood Ravens can't be Thousand Son successors as they don't have the geneseed flaw that plagued the Thousand Sons before the Rubric.

Not gonna lie: Whether or not Blood Ravens are Thousand Sons successors is a bit off topic, but them being an example of a Chapter with unknown origins is relevant

 Medium of Death wrote:
Blood Ravens can't be Thousand Son successors as they don't have the geneseed flaw that plagued the Thousand Sons before the Rubric.

:handwave: Magnus's spell fixed them after the rest of the thousand sons fled to the EoT. Easy fix!

I hope they never reveal the truth of the Blood Raven's origin, its part of their charm.

They have their own gene-seed stocks and do not know where they originally got them from.

Keep in mind its been TEN THOUSAND years since the Codex Astartes was adopted. These things can easily fall through the cracks.

There's a reason why Davian Thul burned the Archives after finding out the truth.

Their primarch was Angron, because only a son of Angron would be dumb enough to be a librarian that worships Khorne.

Is there any suspected successor chapters for Luna Wolves/Death Guard/World Eaters/Emperors Champions?

World Eaters are probably Marines Malevolent.

A legion of Emprah's Champions? BT, son!

 Selym wrote:
A legion of Emprah's Champions? BT, son!

Oh good lord.

I purposely went out of my way to write Emperors Champions too, cause I couldn't remember if it was champions/children.

And I thought "It can't be children, why would super-soldiers call themselves children? That's just dumb"

 Mantorok wrote:
Is there any suspected successor chapters for Luna Wolves/Death Guard/World Eaters/Emperors Champions?

World Eaters are probably Marines Malevolent.

Luna Wolves, none.
Death Guard, Sons of Antaeus
World Eaters, original Minotaurs (not the FW ones)
Emperor's Children, Death Eagles