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Okay, I want to do Raven Guard.

40k-
Buy new box set $118 (ebay) (11 minis & a landspeder)
Buy codex used $40 (ebay)
Raven cards $14
Warzone Damocles: Kauyon $74 (do I even need this?)
$154 left for more minis from GW &/or FW Raven Guard upgrades (about 3-4 boxes of minis, 5 scouts, 10 assualt, 1 rhino?)

Summary - 28-30 minis (2 vehicles) & cards & 3 books (codex/campaign/boxed set)

30k
2 book set (the ones with RG info) $100
$300 of Raven Guard minis & FW stuff (about 35-40 assualt & tactical fw 30k minis with RG upgrade heads/chest/icons)

Summary - 35-40 minis (maybe a rhino) & 2 books



What sounds best?

If your gonna play Marines then you might aswell get the ones you like the look of most (be that 40 or 30k) then see what you have the most opponents for, and then get the rules for that, 30k is designed for big games I seem to think and 40k is abit more flexible a rule set.... To start with you wont need Damocles, just need C:SM and use CT RG

aronthomas17 wrote:
If your gonna play Marines then you might aswell get the ones you like the look of most (be that 40 or 30k) then see what you have the most opponents for, and then get the rules for that, 30k is designed for big games I seem to think and 40k is abit more flexible a rule set.... To start with you wont need Damocles, just need C:SM and use CT RG

I live 2 miles from a GW store. No place else to play. 2 guys play 30k, and 28 play 40k. No one plays Raven Guard.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Thanks, btw!

If you want a game a lot, it is far easier to find games of 40K than 30K. I'd recommend starting off with 40K.

 jy2 wrote:
If you want a game a lot, it is far easier to find games of 40K than 30K. I'd recommend starting off with 40K.

Yeah, I think you are right. BUT I might just use the 30k minis! Win/Win!

You should start the one that you'll have the most fun with. There may be more 40k players, but the 30k rules are a bit more balanced, and there isn't really anything preventing you from bringing a 30k force against a 40k one, you just need to talk to your group. The battle' may not be entirely balanced, but it's doable.

Ok, first some pros and cons for you:

40k
Pros:
- Popular and widely available so fairly easy to get games
- Rules are widely available
- Lots of different armies to choose from

Cons:
- Appalling overall balance
- No consistency between Codex's
- Far too many Funcrusher exploits


30K
Pros:
- Largely well balanced in that most armies draw from a single list. The individual legion rules add flavour without breaking things
- No Funcrushers
- LoW and Str : D not a problem (Limited and Toned down respectively)
- The models!

Cons:
- Not as popular, so harder to find players. Though the cost and investment required to build a 30k force tends to put off flavour of the month players and other WAAC types
- Cost - can only get through FW and their prices are steep in some cases (not if you're an Aussie/Kiwi)
- Generally imperium only (Space Marines, Solar Auxilia, Imperial Militia, Renegade Militia, Knights, Mechanicum)


As for planning your Forgeworld purchases, here's a few notes and tips:
Notes:
- The Raven Guard Legion rules allow most infantry with the exception of anything with Terminator armour to have the Infiltrate and Fleet rules
- You can't have more Vehicle(tank) units than you have Legion Astartes(Raven Guard) units
- Their optional rite of war (Decapitation Strike) Gives Preferred Enemy (IC), bonuses for deciding who gets the first turn, can take drop pods without having to use the Angels of Wrath rite of war, but you are limited in heavy support slots and no allies allowed.


Tips:
- Don't build up to full 20 man tactical or assault squads. Even though it's cheaper to buy the additional 10 over the first 10, they're still compulsory troops and are a tax you have to pay. So pay for the first 10 and save the points for the big toys. I find they're a waste of points unless you actually want to have an infantry horde. Death Guard, Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors do that very well especially as the fists get a bonus to their Bolters as per their legion special rules.
- For the Raven Guard upgrade sets, save them for specialist squads to help distinguish them from standard line troops - Veteran Squads, Seekers and the like. Buying upgrades for the entire army is ruinously expensive!
- Mix and match armour marks. Though Raven Guard are very well suited to using the, rare for other Legions at the time, Mk VI Corvus Armour.
- For Raven Guard - Recon Squads, Mor Deythan Squads (see below) and Destroyer Squads (some people don't like them but I love em) are a nice way to go. Sicaran tanks are excellent (both versions) as is the Scorpius Tank. Rapier batteries are a winner (Graviton Rapiers pick apart tanks where as Quad Heavy Bolters are a cheap way to fill the air with bolt rounds - 18 twinlinked heavy bolter shots are not to be sniffed at, Quad Launchers are ruinous as well).
- Avoid the standard washing machine dreadnoughts - they get scragged very quickly.
- A cheap way to start 30k is to take a Praetor (more expensive HQ) or a Delegatus (link to FW website rules download) and play the Pride of the Legion list. This list allows you take Marine Veteran Squads and Terminator Squads as troops. It's a much cheaper and easier way to get started. For example, 2x 10 man Veteran Squads in Rhinos, Praetor and Terminator Squad in Spartan Dedicated Transport. Add in assorted toys for flavour depending on how you want to play them (Deredeo, Recon Squad, Sicaran, Destroyer Squad, Laser Destroyer Vindicator, Tactical Support Squad with Volkites, Fire Raptor)


Also, these are due for imminent release, so you may want to wait a week or two if you want to include these with your order - Mor Deythan Strike Squad. Think Scouts with the stats of a Space Marine and have a special rule - Fatal Strike. Once per game, when shooting they get twin linked and boosted Rending:

30k, buy the new box set coming out in plastic (rumor), then upgrade shoulder pads and what ever else you want from FW.

 zedmeister wrote:
- Don't build up to full 20 man tactical or assault squads. Even though it's cheaper to buy the additional 10 over the first 10, they're still compulsory troops and are a tax you have to pay. So pay for the first 10 and save the points for the big toys. I find they're a waste of points unless you actually want to have an infantry horde. Death Guard, Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors do that very well especially as the fists get a bonus to their Bolters as per their legion special rules.

Really? How do you win objective games when you take minimum troops and only troops are scoring? Or do you mean that you should take the minimum-size squads for the mandatory troops and then buy a bunch of the specialist "can't be mandatory" troops choices for your real scoring units?

 jy2 wrote:
If you want a game a lot, it is far easier to find games of 40K than 30K. I'd recommend starting off with 40K.

Allow me to echo this feeling.

 Peregrine wrote:


Really? How do you win objective games when you take minimum troops and only troops are scoring? Or do you mean that you should take the minimum-size squads for the mandatory troops and then buy a bunch of the specialist "can't be mandatory" troops choices for your real scoring units?

I meant take the minimum sized squads for the mandatory choice and use the points you would have spent bulking them up to buy other troops (Tactical Support) to help with scoring. And for scoring troops it all depends on the mission being played. I tend to only play the missions in the FW books and found out that I don't need massive 20 man units. For example, I run Alpha Legion and it's ruinously expensive if I want to run 3 20 man squads using Coils of the Hydra. 10 man tactical squads in Rhinos are enough and I add in Tactical Support Squads or Recon squads as needed. Add in Breacher Squads and Assault Squads for flavour. Also, in some missions, Scoring Units can be any Infantry Unit.

 zedmeister wrote:
I meant take the minimum sized squads for the mandatory choice and use the points you would have spent bulking them up to buy other troops (Tactical Support) to help with scoring. And for scoring troops it all depends on the mission being played. I tend to only play the missions in the FW books and found out that I don't need massive 20 man units. For example, I run Alpha Legion and it's ruinously expensive if I want to run 3 20 man squads using Coils of the Hydra. 10 man tactical squads in Rhinos are enough and I add in Tactical Support Squads or Recon squads as needed. Add in Breacher Squads and Assault Squads for flavour. Also, in some missions, Scoring Units can be any Infantry Unit.

Yeah, that makes sense. Taking the "specialist" troops or units with the "this is a scoring unit" special rule is fine. It's just the 40k-style "take two 5-man scout squads as your only troops so you can bring all of the fancy toys" approach to list building that's suicide in 30k.

Well, I'd go for 30k if you have buddies to play against.
Its much more rewarding than 40k in a long run.

 Peregrine wrote:


Yeah, that makes sense. Taking the "specialist" troops or units with the "this is a scoring unit" special rule is fine. It's just the 40k-style "take two 5-man scout squads as your only troops so you can bring all of the fancy toys" approach to list building that's suicide in 30k.

No, definitely not advocating the 40k style approach. Suicide, as you say. But there still seems to be a trend to go overboard when buying the two compulsory troops - i.e. max 20 man squads, fully equipped with Apothecary. Including things like adding in a Nuncio Vox without any Barrage Weapons or Deep Strikers in their force! Why?! As always, it depends on the Legion. With Death Guard you'd run out of troop slots and would probably take as many as you can get (Heavy Support Squads taken as non-compulsory troops!). Raven Guard seem more like a light infantry force - they don't do attrition and to me they just wouldn't field a wall of power armour and bolters (also, apologies as I know you already know this - adding in these extra details for the OP).

Thanks zedmeister! I discovered 4 others at my GW play 30k. It is the "older" crowd (like me). I'll go the 30k route. All that info is fantastic! Thanks again!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So

I can get 100% FW Horus Heresy minis - 30 Maximus with weapons, 20 raven guard heads, 20 rg shoulder pads, 20 RG chests, landspeeder, 3 outriders, firedrake, rhino doors, RG character, 5 mini recon squad for $451.77 usd total (inc. postage) (or same via FW $596 usd)

OR

From gw, 30 std marines, RG character, landspeeder, 3 bikes, stormraven, 5 scouts for $316.75 usd (345.26 after tax)...Then buy $60 of FW 20 RG heads/chests/pads = 405.26....

Thoughts?

Firedrakes are Salamander only, just ter let you know.

rowboatjellyfanxiii wrote:
Firedrakes are Salamander only, just ter let you know.

Oh, meant fire raptor, the cool flyer!

 krazynadechukr wrote:
Thanks zedmeister! I discovered 4 others at my GW play 30k. It is the "older" crowd (like me). I'll go the 30k route. All that info is fantastic! Thanks again!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So

I can get 100% FW Horus Heresy minis - 30 Maximus with weapons, 20 raven guard heads, 20 rg shoulder pads, 20 RG chests, landspeeder, 3 outriders, firedrake, rhino doors, RG character, 5 mini recon squad for $451.77 usd total (inc. postage) (or same via FW $596 usd)

OR

From gw, 30 std marines, RG character, landspeeder, 3 bikes, stormraven, 5 scouts for $316.75 usd (345.26 after tax)...Then buy $60 of FW 20 RG heads/chests/pads = 405.26....

Thoughts?

No problem, chap.

In terms of what to purchase, at the end of the day it comes down to personal preference. Do you want Plastic or Resin? On your plastics, bear in mind the following:

- Stormraven's don't feature in the HH
- Standard pattern Landspeeders aren't really worth it (The Resin Javelin Speeders can be worth it, stick them with HK missiles for extra killyness and they fit the Raven Guard quite nicely).
- There are no scouts in 30k

Also on the Fireraptor - Excellent choice. It's a beast. Finally, ooo, look at what Forgeworld have just put up for release...



The Mor Deythan Strike Squad - one of the Raven Guard unique units. They're pricey at £50, but a 5 man squad is legal, they can be increased to 10 man, 1 in 3 can be armed with Volkite's or Combi-Weapons and they're nicer than Recons I feel.

There's also this:

If you're in the hobby for the long term, I'd go with 40k for sure. It gets updated each edition so your models will continue to be useful in the future.

Well, most of them...... you might lose a Chaos Dreadnought on the way.... T_T

 zedmeister wrote:

 krazynadechukr wrote:
Thanks zedmeister! I discovered 4 others at my GW play 30k. It is the "older" crowd (like me). I'll go the 30k route. All that info is fantastic! Thanks again!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So

I can get 100% FW Horus Heresy minis - 30 Maximus with weapons, 20 raven guard heads, 20 rg shoulder pads, 20 RG chests, landspeeder, 3 outriders, firedrake, rhino doors, RG character, 5 mini recon squad for $451.77 usd total (inc. postage) (or same via FW $596 usd)

OR

From gw, 30 std marines, RG character, landspeeder, 3 bikes, stormraven, 5 scouts for $316.75 usd (345.26 after tax)...Then buy $60 of FW 20 RG heads/chests/pads = 405.26....

Thoughts?

No problem, chap.

In terms of what to purchase, at the end of the day it comes down to personal preference. Do you want Plastic or Resin? On your plastics, bear in mind the following:

- Stormraven's don't feature in the HH
- Standard pattern Landspeeders aren't really worth it (The Resin Javelin Speeders can be worth it, stick them with HK missiles for extra killyness and they fit the Raven Guard quite nicely).
- There are no scouts in 30k

Also on the Fireraptor - Excellent choice. It's a beast. Finally, ooo, look at what Forgeworld have just put up for release...



The Mor Deythan Strike Squad - one of the Raven Guard unique units. They're pricey at £50, but a 5 man squad is legal, they can be increased to 10 man, 1 in 3 can be armed with Volkite's or Combi-Weapons and they're nicer than Recons I feel.

There's also this:

Damn sweet!

Yeah, the 40k list vs the 30k list was an "apples for apples" attempt to compare prices & see if I could use said minis interchangeably in 30k/40k.....