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So right now the Coldstar is pretty bad. For 60 points you become an almost FMC, but the biggest deal is losing out on signature systems and not being able to exchange the weapons you're sacked with (the high-output burst cannon and a missile pod). You basically now fill every role that didn't need filling; Tau has enough S5 AP5 and S7 AP4. The only "use" is to move Markerlights across the board in a single turn, which shouldn't need to happen if you have enough markerlights.

Since paying 60 points to be a gakky FMC isn't really that good, allowing the Coldstar to swap out the weapons and take sig systems would fix every issue. Legit MCs already pay between 30 and 60 points for the ability to fly, having a commander do so as well might be a bit expensive for a model without MC stats but allowing to take sig systems would allow for the iridium armor as well and would make the solo commander worth a damn.

A commander with Coldstar armor, iridium armor, shield generator, stimulants, and two fusion blasters is 240. Not bad for a T5 W4 2+/4++ FNP model.

I like the idea of the Coldstar battlesuit, and allowing it to take other weapons would make it so much more useful.

Since you have already paid for the high-output burst and missile pod in the initial 60pts upgrade, how much just letting it swap those weapons instead? It's still going to cost 210pts with the other support/signature systems, but at least its a bit cheaper.

 McNinja wrote:

A commander with Coldstar armor, iridium armor, shield generator, stimulants, and two fusion blasters is 240. Not bad for a T5 W4 2+/4++ FNP model.

Considering that a flying Daemon Prince is around the same cost for 3+/5++ and it must land at one point because it is pretty much useless otherwise, I would say the Iridium Coldstar is not exactly "not bad" but more like "overpowered".

Also, I don't think that the Iridium and the Coldstar fit from a fluff perspective: the armor is described as heavy and bulky, so it is probably a no-no for the flying battlesuit. Combining the two would result some sort of Imperium-ish "flying slab of metal" or Orkish "shooty thing with jets",

I'd agree, and it also removes the Coldstar's biggest weakness, which is that the wound from failing a grounding check instantly kills it. Now granted, that makes the Coldstar kinda weak, though if it could switch its weapons it might not be so bad.

 AtoMaki wrote:

 McNinja wrote:

A commander with Coldstar armor, iridium armor, shield generator, stimulants, and two fusion blasters is 240. Not bad for a T5 W4 2+/4++ FNP model.

Considering that a flying Daemon Prince is around the same cost for 3+/5++ and it must land at one point because it is pretty much useless otherwise, I would say the Iridium Coldstar is not exactly "not bad" but more like "overpowered".

Also, I don't think that the Iridium and the Coldstar fit from a fluff perspective: the armor is described as heavy and bulky, so it is probably a no-no for the flying battlesuit. Combining the two would result some sort of Imperium-ish "flying slab of metal" or Orkish "shooty thing with jets",

Isn't every battlesuit a "shooty thing with jets?"

A Daemon Prince is also quite viable in CC, far moreso than a commander ever will be (aside from Farsight, but he can't fly). Daemon Princes also have smash, vector strike, and fear. the commander does not. Literally all he can do is fly and shoot his relatively weak weapons (a TL burst cannon with 2 extra shots and a missile pod). That's not worth 145 points, or 185 with Stimulant and shield.

And yes, dying from grounding is a huge issue for the coldstar, as it removes your commander instantly and makes using it a huge risk.

Mmmmm you're basically asking for a better Flyrant. Ehhhh all Coldstar ACTUALLY needs is +1 T and that is it.

As a tau player, had the coldstar suit had no fixed weapons and costed say, 20 less (not as much the two guns would cost to begin with) it would be OP as feth.
Simply due to flying BS5 fusion guns.
If it could take signature, it would have gotten so much worse.

Even as-is, coldstar has value, just odd one.
It's a drone redeployment platform (that takes DC to make them BS5, gun drone dakka bonanza.) And a clutch AA solution.

It's not a must have or a tier 1 choice, but it's a viable niche pick. Far more than vespid ever were for example.
I might actually run one.

 McNinja wrote:
Isn't every battlesuit a "shooty thing with jets?"

No, they are small shiny things that distantly makes sense. Not 10+ tons of metal with an engine and wings strapped on it.

 McNinja wrote:

A Daemon Prince is also quite viable in CC, far moreso than a commander ever will be (aside from Farsight, but he can't fly). Daemon Princes also have smash, vector strike, and fear. the commander does not. Literally all he can do is fly and shoot his relatively weak weapons (a TL burst cannon with 2 extra shots and a missile pod). That's not worth 145 points, or 185 with Stimulant and shield.

The point is that if the Daemon Prince lands, it gets shot to death. At which point its close-combat capabilities don't matter at all. The Coldstar on the other hand can fly around until the end of the battle, being extremely hard to deal with because it is Hard To Hit. If you put 2+ armour and T5 on it, then it would be almost impossible to take down as even the two skyfire weapon systems who could bypass its armour save (the Vendetta and the Hunter) would need 7-8 solid shots (hitting and wounding) to kill the Coldstar - not even a Flyrant can take that much and a DP would be straight-out vaporized by this amount of firepower.

Also, you would be surprised, but the Coldstar has quite a lot of firepower for an FMC, being almost comparable to a Dakka Flyrant (a unit that costs almost 100 points more than a Coldstar).

The dakka Flyrant delivers 12 S6 AP- shots at BS4 TL, or 6 shots and an S5 AP5 Haywire template (or one of the others, but why?), plus possibly Witchfire. It's also T6, so doesn't die to grounding checks and is harder to wound. But, I see your point about the 2+ save combined with FNP. There's also Jink, but all three of the FMCs under consideration can do that.

There are a few other AP1/2 Skyfire platforms, though: Stormraven (multimelta, lascannon, or assault cannon rending), Stormtalon (same), Stormwolf (Helfrost cannon), Crimson Hunter (brightlance/starcannon, pulse laser), Razorwing (dark lance/disintegrator). They all need around the same number of shots, though.

Thinking about it, probably just T5 would do the trick. Though, just switching out weapons is possibly reasonable too, with the caveat that flying is risky because of ID from grounding.

jade_angel wrote:
The dakka Flyrant delivers 12 S6 AP- shots at BS4 TL, or 6 shots and an S5 AP5 Haywire template (or one of the others, but why?), plus possibly Witchfire. It's also T6, so doesn't die to grounding checks and is harder to wound.

For 100 points more than the Coldstar (that's almost three-quarters of another Coldstar), it better have these merits !

Also, I did not count anti-air platforms that could be taken out by the Coldstar quickly and without much effort. Like the Crimson Hunter.

Ah, fair point there, allowing for range issues. Even as-is, it's not a bad little pinch fighter. Not that Tau are exactly hurting for AA, however. (VT-equipped Broadsides and Riptides are my go-to already)

Making it a Commander +1 isn't fun. Make it something new and different!

Coldstar Battlesuit: Loses Independent Character, Gains +1 Toughness, 4+ Armor Save and Drone Nexus.

Drone Nexus: This model may purchase up to six additional Shield, Marker, Gun or Missile Drones. Drones in this model's unit move and are fired upon as if Flying Monstrous Creatures. Drones in this model's unit gain Sworn Protector.

Whut more buffs for Codex tau :/
I'm sorry but that model does not need fixing. Kroot and vespids need fixing the coldstar is already quite potent.

A commander with Coldstar armor, iridium armor, shield generator, stimulants, and two fusion blasters is 240. Not bad for a T5 W4 2+/4++ FNP model.

This thing would be a op nightmare. Seriously, it would be near impossible to kill while at the same time it murders all vehicles out there

I really, really find it hard to feel inclined to buff the Tau codex in any way.

 Iechine wrote:
I really, really find it hard to feel inclined to buff the Tau codex in any way.

Not the codex, a single unit. Believe it or not, just because the codex is good from a general perspective does not mean that every single unit in the codex is good.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 oldzoggy wrote:
Whut more buffs for Codex tau :/
I'm sorry but that model does not need fixing. Kroot and vespids need fixing the coldstar is already quite potent.

A commander with Coldstar armor, iridium armor, shield generator, stimulants, and two fusion blasters is 240. Not bad for a T5 W4 2+/4++ FNP model.

This thing would be a op nightmare. Seriously, it would be near impossible to kill while at the same time it murders all vehicles out there

Making it T5 and giving it the ability to swap its weapons out are the only two changes the coldstar needs.

 McNinja wrote:

 Iechine wrote:


Making it T5 and giving it the ability to swap its weapons out are the only two changes the coldstar needs.

I don't think the Tau of all codexes needs an easier way to deliver Melta weapons.

All they need are access to 1 signature system - of which you will always choose iridium armor.

Then you give it shield gen and stim injector and you have - WS4, BS5, S5, T5, 4W, I3, A4, Ld10, Sv 2+/4++/5+++ FMC for 210pts; and they're viable.

He'd be hard to kill, sure. But his damage output is garbage.

Compare that to a Flyrant, whio has 12 S6 shots, a haywire template, Vector Strike and Smash.

 Iechine wrote:
I really, really find it hard to feel inclined to buff the Tau codex in any way.

Agreed. When they murderboat anything and everything that I bring and then cry for MORE buffs.... Yeah no, thats not happening.

It isn't like it isn't warranted. You'd still want all units to be viable. If the Cold Star is that lackluster, maybe it needs a buff. Same with Vespid...

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
It isn't like it isn't warranted. You'd still want all units to be viable. If the Cold Star is that lackluster, maybe it needs a buff. Same with Vespid...

It is actually really good for such a cheap cost. If you gave it options then it would become op, you could deliver it wherever it needed to be T2 which isn't fun. People just want a cheaper more specialized flyrant, seriously. Giving it not even T5, but a special rule that ignores grounding is enough.

That would be perfect, and maybe give it the ability to switch out it's BC for a PR or something?

A Pulse Rifle? I mean... if you want...

EDIT: Plasma Rifle, I'm an idiot.

Yeah, plasma rifle, but I can see why you would be confused.

That way he could choose to be either anti-geq or anti-meq/teq. Gives a bit of flexability with targets, without be OP at all.

I think that would be pretty balanced. The only problems that remains is that the drones accompanying it would be shooting inefficiently, a split-fire rule would be appropriate as well I think.

Grounding tests should be S7 so it still hurts him but doesnt splat him (even though its a hilarious mental image...).
I actually like the burst cannon, 6 S5 Ap5 BS5 Twinlinked shots are nothing to scoff at. But i wish the MP was swappable so it could be used to pen armor, have range, or further rate of fire.

I never felt MPs fitted with any of our weapons. Range is the longest, but that means it usually renders the other weapon useless. If range isnt a problem for the other gun, then immediately we have better options than a MP (plasma or fusions > MP when youre not trying to sit across the table)

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Grounding tests should be S7 so it still hurts him but doesnt splat him (even though its a hilarious mental image...).
I actually like the burst cannon, 6 S5 Ap5 BS5 Twinlinked shots are nothing to scoff at. But i wish the MP was swappable so it could be used to pen armor, have range, or further rate of fire.

I never felt MPs fitted with any of our weapons. Range is the longest, but that means it usually renders the other weapon useless. If range isnt a problem for the other gun, then immediately we have better options than a MP (plasma or fusions > MP when youre not trying to sit across the table)

MPs work when they're pretty much the only weapon the army has. If you have 14 Crisis suits with 2 MPs each, thats 56 S7 AP4 shots per turn.

I don't think you realize the implications of allowing him to have signature systems. First of all, this guy is one resilient S.O.B. T5, 2+/4++, 4W and FNP on a FMC! Wow.

Now use that flyer to twin-link the entire army and give them Ignores Cover and Monster/Tank Hunter via the Hunter Contigent. Holy WTF?!?

Actually that would be impossible to make him a buffmander even if we could put siggys on him.

Why?

He cannot be in a unit if hes Swooping around, which is the point of the Coldstar suit. Only the Puretide chip (the one that grants Monster or Tankhunter) doesnt require him to not shoot to get the benefit of it. If hes alone, his "unit" cannot target something to shoot at for Coordinated Fire because if he himself shoots he sacrifices the reroll to hit and ignores cover.
It only works for normal buffmanders because theyre attached to a unit that can shoot to trigger Coordinated Fire, while having him stand by.