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That GW should learn how to use Google...

I think it was a way to get them remaining in warhammer and not be canned. So imo it's a good move.

Fluffwise very little makes sense in AoS anyway, so they fit in perfectly and may tickle the fancy of many!

My son who plays lizardmen is absolutely horrified by what they did. I would have thought they could have used the opportunity to make a positive change, maybe no more aztec lizards, make them something more AoS'y? I am just hoping my vamps dont get similar treatment, but from what I have seen so far (and its not too much yet) AoS is on track to continue to half ass everything.

Not sure yet. This:

I'm not sure if the Lizardmen are reincarnated memories that only exist for the battle or if they hang around at home when not on campaigns.

sort of thing concerns me.

I play Lizardmen in Mordheim and the fluff for them back then was great. So many miscommunication errors, heaps of odd customs and so on made them so alien to the other factions that it was perfect for interesting and sometimes funny encounters.

I tried getting into warhammer with them but the fluff portrayed the new Lizardmen as dying and crumbling (lame) and then they flew away in space ships.

So what do I think of them now? Well they certainly are nowhere near as interesting as their mordheim equivalents. I think the new fluff is not very "sensible" in terms of making much sense.

This is one I always remember which is why I liked Lizardmen to begin with back in the day:

I believe the humorous tale of the purposeful mistranslation was actually when Marco Colombo was brought to a Slann. They were speaking Bretonnian, which the Skink knew a little of, and Marco as well.

Marco was proposing an alliance where he'd protect the shores, trade, etc. The Slann just kept smiling and such - when Marco finally inquired WTF was being said, the Skink said he's just telling him how good he looks, how his jewels are awesome, how mighty his city is, etc.

The Skink diplomat justified the farce by stating the Slann are far too superior to bother with such petty and trivial matters such as trade, and wasting their cosmos-spanning thoughts on Marco's concerns wouldn't happen. In the end, the Skink brokered the deal for additional security to their shores, and in return they'd provide an 'endless supply of worthless beads' to the humans that Marco saw them using for their abacuses (See: The largest most perfect pearls a human could hope to ever lay eyes on, which the Lizardmen were in the habit of disposing of in the hundreds each day).

Many humans in the expedition built entire dynasties off of these pearls when brought back to the Old World.

The above is not the actual story since it's a pain to fin but someone on dakka retold it. But to me, in that small paragraph we got more information on how the Lizardmen think and feel etc compared to the new vague fluff.

Fluff wise, for me they just don't compare for me. I guess they kind of feel like faceless mooks now. Although I have hardly read much into it since it's not something I can get into.

I kind of like the fluff direction. They retreated to the stars in the End Times, and they are a race that once walked the mortal world but now live in some sort of star heaven. They're still defenders of the mortal worlds, but are beings of the past. It's kind of neat to see a race ascend into daemon/angel-hood.

Nice to get a couple price drops on the boxes but I agree the Saurus Warriors are way too static. Too much finecast in the character range is a turnoff.

 Swastakowey wrote:
I guess they kind of feel like faceless mooks now.

That's what's got me concerned. There's already far too much of that in warhammer as it is.

I can't help but wonder how an army with Aztec themed everything is going to go living in space rather than a jungle..

 jonolikespie wrote:
I can't help but wonder how an army with Aztec themed everything is going to go living in space rather than a jungle..

Terra forming space dust into tropical jungle islands.


In this edition, Lizardmen learn that terraforming can be used for transformation of habitats...

Their space ships carry the plans that hold their technological secrets.

Don't like them.

They could have at least taken the opportunity to update the Saurus models, those things are ancient.

The Lizardmen are my favorite army from WFB and in AOS I like the new/updated background story. I do like the variety of colors they painted them and how saturated they are, but I'm pretty disappointed that they didn't get new models. I remember reading somewhere that a rep from Gamesworkshop said that the new races weren't going to look like the old ones when they finally got around to rolling them out. I guess that's changed. I know the Seraphon have modifications such as the op said in terms of them having galaxies swirling around in their weapons, but couldn't there armor look like that too? Or them in general? I wanted something different and updated. By updated I meant the models.

I don't like a majority of the old models, especially the Kroxigor. A 3D modeler felt the same way and sculpted and produced his own models and this was more in line of the quality I was expecting from the " New " Lizardmen.

Here is the link to the fan made Kroxigor models.

http://www.coolminiornot.com/forums/showthread.php?58582

Here is a size comparison to an official model.

http://www.coolminiornot.com/forums/showthread.php?58582-First-Post-Custom-model-WFB-Kroxigor/page3


I guess I was hoping for too much, but I'm still remaining optimistic, since from a lore perspective it does make sense that it's possible they wouldn't look too different, but I have to say if all the other " New" races just get color changes and repacks; I'm done with AOS. Which is a shame because I love the Stormcast Eternals and the new Khorne Models.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Don't like them.

They could have at least taken the opportunity to update the Saurus models, those things are ancient.

Yeah but if you hold it against GW every time they rebox an old army instead of updating them with new models that fit the new AoS aesthetics and fluff they are going for we're all going to be here complaining for a very long time.

 jonolikespie wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Don't like them.

They could have at least taken the opportunity to update the Saurus models, those things are ancient.

Yeah but if you hold it against GW every time they rebox an old army instead of updating them with new models that fit the new AoS aesthetics and fluff they are going for we're all going to be here complaining for a very long time.

There would be complaining regardless. Hahaha!

 jonolikespie wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Don't like them.

They could have at least taken the opportunity to update the Saurus models, those things are ancient.

Yeah but if you hold it against GW every time they rebox an old army instead of updating them with new models that fit the new AoS aesthetics and fluff they are going for we're all going to be here complaining for a very long time.

Well the question was asked what I think of the new Lizards... I was just answering As my user name might suggest, I am a fan of Lizardmen. My opinion of the Seraphon is that they are in new boxes with round bases, an expensive book, Saurus models need an update and "Seraphon" is a stupid name. That may be the commentary of all armies over the next year or so... but the question was asked so I answered.

I'm not sure what Seraphon is supposed to mean... "phon" = sounds, "Sera" = kinda like Saura? So Seraphon = Sounds a bit like Saurapod? I dunno

I think the name is supposed to be 'Seraph' - an angelic being, and the '-on' suffix is supposed to simply be GW's usual pseudo Latin style or a throwback to the dinosaur sounding naming conventions.

I'm new to the game and Seraphon are frontrunners to be my first army after the starter set. My suggestion would be selling the book at a much lower price point.

I mean as a new player I had no idea models were cheap to make until I read about it online, but an $83 AUD book is obviously expensive. It also makes the low barrier to entry, which was the biggest selling point for me, a lot less appealing.

You don't need the book though. I certainly don't own the Stormcast book although I play them.

I can't say anything until the book hits. Their alien aspect was very interesting (akin to the dragonewts of Glorantha which may be the prototype of this behavour, seeing how GW used to make minis for Glorantha) because the people of the old world had to deal with them at some point - there was no escaping their strangeness. I'm kind of wary that their strangeness will morph into mysteriousness and they'll just fly off the battlefield once their work is done - kind of boring... But hey, it is a new game - they have to come up with something new and after the old world anything will look at least a little silly to older players, in the beginning .

Makes Sigmar look like a bit of an ass when both the Stormcast and Seraphon teleport into battle, but once it's over only the Seraphon get to teleport away again and the Stormcast have to walk home instead, haha

For me I have to wait until the book comes out - to me, Seraphon have a chariot of the gods feel - they aren't incorporeal or summoned into existence, they live in spaceships and get teleported to where they're needed.

But that's just my interpretation of what I've read so far.

The images from the book tell that beneath the skin seraphon have only azyryte energy - no blood, muscles or flesh whatsoever. This leads me to think that Slann "cloth" them in corporeal bodies to fight. I think that they do not live as mortal beings do but exist as mythological entities between the stars or are acually represented by the stars themselves - the way Gloranthian deities live in their Mythological realm and are represented by celestial bodies. This would be in lime with the overall feeling of the setting.

I think they're meh-y, all in all. They're pretty much the same thing but with the "they're good demons" thing. Not much is changed from what I see.

Their main themes are still Aztec-related, and they are still most adjectified by being reptilian. Oh well.

So the Seraphon are the Slann version of Sigmarines? What's with all the Aztec/Mayan style deco, then?

I like the Lizard Man models, though they are rather expensive. The name Seraphon is a bit stupid I think. It reminds me of Seraphim.

If I'm honest, I just don't like the new celestial realms fluff. It doesn't give me anything to care about or connect with.

Would have been cool if their space ships had some kind of auto pilot and they ended up in a planet from the old ones which had another society of Lizardmen. They found plans closer to the old ones will and then using their new space ships and a new selection of spawning pools along with a stronger force with their new numbers they come back to try finish the plan on the realms.

It's playing on some pretty bad ideas but it would certainly be cooler than god lizards. Maybe the new Lizard Society could be a different aesthetic altogether. We could essentially have 2 styles of Lizardmen that can mix and match along with further options regarding gods etc.

Ultimately it's kinda odd for a fantasy, but I would prefer it that way.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
If I'm honest, I just don't like the new celestial realms fluff. It doesn't give me anything to care about or connect with.

I have to agree with that. The whole idea of 'good demons' I find very unimaginative and just lacking, the same way I feel the immortal superhumans created by a god to fight his wars are. It's just... boring.

 jonolikespie wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
If I'm honest, I just don't like the new celestial realms fluff. It doesn't give me anything to care about or connect with.

I have to agree with that. The whole idea of 'good demons' I find very unimaginative and just lacking, the same way I feel the immortal superhumans created by a god to fight his wars are. It's just... boring.

"But they're Seraphs.. Good demons... They're Angels! Get it!

Aren't we so creative!"

-GW

You have asked this question a week too early

When the book hits (many of) our questions will be answered.

My concern at the moment is that when I look at the models, I think Aztec Lizards and don't really see the through line to what they are in AoS now. If the book answers that, I will be golden. If not... well, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

I'll set some time aside this Friday afternoon to read the book properly and do a review...

I couldn't wait a week. I picked up White Dwarf yesterday to find out more about them but it only left me with more questions haha

From the White Dwarf, the reason the models still look Aztec-y is because they are conjured from the memories of the Slann.

I see the aesthetic changes to AoS coming at a similar speed to 3rd Edition 40k. If you think back to the rulebook the Tyranids were all just the 2nd Edition models with an updated colour scheme. Come mid 3rd edition they finally got a model range reboot.

One area I think it will differ though is, I think we will never see a plastic kit get replaced again with an updated version. Kits will eventually be replaced by different kits (I.e. new models entirely) or a dual kit that can make both a new and old unit.

 Bottle wrote:
I couldn't wait a week. I picked up White Dwarf yesterday to find out more about them but it only left me with more questions haha

From the White Dwarf, the reason the models still look Aztec-y is because they are conjured from the memories of the Slann.

I see the aesthetic changes to AoS coming at a similar speed to 3rd Edition 40k. If you think back to the rulebook the Tyranids were all just the 2nd Edition models with an updated colour scheme. Come mid 3rd edition they finally got a model range reboot.

One area I think it will differ though is, I think we will never see a plastic kit get replaced again with an updated version. Kits will eventually be replaced by different kits (I.e. new models entirely) or a dual kit that can make both a new and old unit.

So, that's the excuse they used to keep the current model range up and running... If that is so... will the Aelfs be vaguely mythical beings conjured from Tyrion and Teclis' memories aswell?

This reasoning can be applied to every faction... and kinda makes the fluff even worse.