Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Every time anyone mentions the coldstar on here the conversation gets shot down in as quickly as everything thinks this thing is gonna get shot down in game. Now i'm strongly considering trying to use this thing and making it work, here's why I think it could have a place and the uses it could have.

For starters, its small and fast, you can swoop this guy anywhere on the table, stick him in the darkest corner of a ruin and hide him away while swooping meaning he's not as vulnerable as most flyers which are perched up on flying stands and can't make use of such cover. He can also attack from angles opponents won't be used to having Tau attack from and using positional relays to allow stealth suits or kroot to easily arrive on your opponents board edge.

His weapons aren't that bad, yeah its not got fusion blasters or plasma rifles but the fact that he can swoop straight past a tank and target rear armour will mean even that missile pod can be a threat and that burst cannon might even be able to hurt armour.

He doesn't have to be THAT worried about grounding. Say a quadgun shoots 4 shots at him at BS4 and he has a shield generator, 3.56 hit, 2.96 wound, 1.48 failed saves, 0.49 result in grounding, 0.25 chance of failing save from grounding. or something like that, either way according to the dice tool on battlescribe there's a 6.17% chance of a quadgun killing him from grounding.

He can also drop an army of drones on your opponent if you want to.

No one can control the skies like Tau can and if you have control of the skies I can see the Coldstar being very useful and effective.

Let me know if you're thinking of taking a coldstar and what you'll use it for or if not and you have a mature counter oppinion I'd love to hear it.

Thanks

The Coldstar isn't good because the S9 grounding check Insta-kills him.

 Frozocrone wrote:
The Coldstar isn't good because the S9 grounding check Insta-kills him.

D'know if you read my opening post but i did cover that. a quad gun or equivelent only has a less than 7% chance of insta killing a commander with a shield generator via grounding. and even then it needs line of sight which should be hard to get on something so small.

A Str 8 shot will instant kill it, don't even need the grounding check. Even then it takes up a decent chunk of points while not really providing much in the way of firepower or utility. Maybe it can just wait to show up later in the game to be an annoyance or sneak by as a low threat target. Zipping around the backfield might be its calling to pew pew the rear armor of things or annoy artillery type units. Personally though I would rather have 3 crisis suits with double burst cannons than a cold star.

Doesn't matter what your app says. Real world experience with things much tougher than a Tau suit say that ANY army can knock a flyer down. I'm going to use Flyrants as an example because I use them the most. Any army can put a Flyrant down without fail. Lasguns, Bolters, S6 Spam from Eldar or Guard, literally any foot soldier blob squad just throws enough dice that it can happen. Who cares about a Quad Gun. Most armies don't NEED anti-air because so few things in the air that NEED to die are too tough for a Bolter to knock to the ground. Massed Bolters kill more flyers than dedicated anti-air does.

You use it like a Flyrant, it will be shot like a Flyrant and it doesn't have the ability to survive being shot like a Flyrant. The ONLY use I can see for the Coldstar is making it a Buffmander that can jump between squads for whatever reason. Maybe squad 1 is dying and needs to be cut off and abandoned, fly it back to squad 2 and restart the killing. But that's not efficient by any means.

Which it can't do, because it's A) its a monstrous creature, and B) it can't take the systems to be a buffmander.

Why would being a monstrous creature matter?
Not being able to take the best of the support systems is valid though, that is likely the core reason people don't like this thing.

Also, I think this guy, more than any other FMCs, will die hard from Vector Strikes.

MCs can't join squads.

 welshhoppo wrote:
MCs can't join squads.

No, ICs cannot join units that have an MC. IC MCs can still join units as long as there are no MCs in the unit.

 welshhoppo wrote:
MCs can't join squads.

How does a Hive Tyrant join a squad of Tyrant Guard?

There is no rule restricting MC ICs from joining units.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:

 welshhoppo wrote:
MCs can't join squads.

How does a Hive Tyrant join a squad of Tyrant Guard?

There is no rule restricting MC ICs from joining units.

By way of a different special rule, since a Hive Tyrant is not an Independent Character.

The rule gives the Tyrant IC status, nothing else. "A single Hive Tyrant may join the unit as if it were an Independent Character."

The only real use for a Coldstar I've seen people speaking of is to optimize the 12" run and shoot for Hunter Cadre. And even then I'd just glide behind impassable terrain

He's not as useless as everyone makes out. He does have his problems, however, and she should be saved as the 2nd HQ choice.

What does he have to offer? Best case scenario he hits something 6 times with S5 shots or 2 times with missiles.
So his output is equal to 12 FW and a single dual missile suit.

His benefit is having mobility. Well we have a formation that lets stealth and ghostkeels hit rear armor and crisis suits don't have a problem getting side armor, which coldstar most of the time will be getting.

To put it bluntly, he's expensive considering the best he can give can be achieved elsewhere in units that won't die instantly to a grounding check and can actually synergize with other units. His set load out makes him less optimized than standard suits.

He justs costs to much, being a t4 FMC isn't in an of itself a bad thing but the upgrade costs so much and so many other things could do that job in the codex that outside of people making gundam wing theme armies he just isn't worth it

If instead of a slightly better burst cannon and a missile pod he came with a pair of hard points, it'd be so much better.

Also be neat to see regular crisis suit units being able to upgrade to coldstar suits if only to reignite my brother's passion to make a Viking conversion (starcraft Vikings). Sigh... Can always count on gw to raise your hopes only to dash them...

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
The rule gives the Tyrant IC status, nothing else. "A single Hive Tyrant may join the unit as if it were an Independent Character."

"As if it were" isn't equivalent to actually giving it the independent character rule.

It would work the same, however. It just would not get any benefits/detriments that effect things with IC.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
The rule gives the Tyrant IC status, nothing else. "A single Hive Tyrant may join the unit as if it were an Independent Character."

Nope. 'Shieldwall' gives it the ability to join the one specific unit but none of the other rules associated with being an Independent Character.

Indeed, it may join, but once you join you're stuck there until all the Guard die.

I don't think I'll swoop Coldstar very often (there will have to be a payoff) but I do see him being a nice mobility booster in a Hunter Cadre.

I also see him as a bit of a fireman, moving all over the board to lend a bit of firepower where needed. His BS means he should hit with about 7 shots before markerlight help. With rear armor, he can pull 2 -3 HP off most vehicles plus possibly score some results on the vehicle damage table all by his lonesome.

meet one in a fight, wasn't impressed. he came in fire at some scouts, then mystormtalon blew him away. What kills him is the T4. Even with just snap shots his save is the same as a marine. Unlike every other flier, massed bolter fire can kill him, and stronger guns kill him quicker. If he meets another flyer, or sky firing ground unit, he's in trouble.

If mutilators are to CSM
The coldstar is to Tau

If you could give him coldstar bodyguards it might be more interesting, but as it stands it's a gimmick.

I really want to like the Coldstar, because he looks cool and it could've been a decent new type of Commander if they'd only allowed him to have t5 and a 2+.

But whenever I turn my mind to him I can't help but think about that champion of the Tau air force - The DX-6 'Remora' Drone Fighter!

Remoras are cheaper, have shrouded for marvelous Jink saves, have a 36" heavy 6 twin-linked burst cannon, 2 seeker missiles, and a networked markerlight. It also has a mighty BS of 3 (unlike the other peasant drones with BS2), so every turn it has a 50/50 chance of firing a BS5 missile which ignores cover (and thus Jink)

It can also Deep Strike, so just like the Coldstar it could deep strike behind enemy flyers and strike their rear armour.

The downsides being they're obviously not in any of the fancy new formations and with av10 all around and 2HP, they'll go down in a big hurry against almost anything. That said, str 5 effectively 'wounds' them on 5s and would wound a Coldstar on 3s, so considering the drone would have a 5+ cover save at the very least the durability is probably a wash.

Also, at the current FW price (in Aust.) you can get 2 Remora drones for less than the price of 1 Coldstar, if that's a consideration.

 Vankraken wrote:
A Str 8 shot will instant kill it, don't even need the grounding check. Even then it takes up a decent chunk of points while not really providing much in the way of firepower or utility. Maybe it can just wait to show up later in the game to be an annoyance or sneak by as a low threat target. Zipping around the backfield might be its calling to pew pew the rear armor of things or annoy artillery type units. Personally though I would rather have 3 crisis suits with double burst cannons than a cold star.

exactly so a deredeo feasts on his tears. in one turn you can drop him, not mention if a plane starts on the field via skyshield and survives one turn, assuming your commander is in the air he is totally inferior to any actual flying MC or flyers

 ionusx wrote:

 Vankraken wrote:
A Str 8 shot will instant kill it, don't even need the grounding check. Even then it takes up a decent chunk of points while not really providing much in the way of firepower or utility. Maybe it can just wait to show up later in the game to be an annoyance or sneak by as a low threat target. Zipping around the backfield might be its calling to pew pew the rear armor of things or annoy artillery type units. Personally though I would rather have 3 crisis suits with double burst cannons than a cold star.

exactly so a deredeo feasts on his tears. in one turn you can drop him, not mention if a plane starts on the field via skyshield and survives one turn, assuming your commander is in the air he is totally inferior to any actual flying MC or flyers

A tarantula with a Hyperios launcher could kill it and its worth <60 points

They could solve all of coldstar's problems by giving im access to iridium armor, or even just the T5 3+ is fine as most other FMC's seem to be 3+ or worse. But that T4......smh.....for shame gw