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Hi there, new to Dakka but not to gaming. Now I've got something of an epidemic going on at my FLGS and want to know how owners have handled such a situation in the past.

What do you do when Magic the Gathering takes over pretty much the whole store?

To give some background, the FLGS is fairly new and is coming up on being open for 2 years and for most of the time we had a fledgling Warmahordes community developing, a strong Malifaux community and several other tabletop games being played with some MTG too.
Now, on games nights you're lucky if there is a tabletop game being played. I have not played a game of Warmahordes in over a month. I'm frankly wasting my time waiting for pickup games that are never going to happen as it appears many other players have abandoned the store and/or migrated onto playing MTG. As a result, the MTG players have spread past their game night on Fridays. You go in on any day and it's people just playing MTG all the time.
This has killed my hobby mojo as MTG had spread like some kind of cancer throughout the store. Yes, I know it keeps the lights on in FLGS's etc. etc. but this is getting silly.

Now, don't think I'm picking on MTG as this can apply to any game system, it's just that it is happening with MTG in my neck of the woods. Now I've got nothing against the owner (though I do feel he's not promoting anything other than MTG which has put everything else on life support) who is a great guy, but help me out here; what have owners (or other people who have seen such a thing happen at their FLGS) done to combat this?

Frankly, this isn't something that is the prerogative of the store owner. It is entirely your prerogative. If you want to cultivate a culture of a game, you need to get bodies in the store and organize the events, rather than blaming a different game. Despite all you saying "I'm not picking on MTG", you are blaming it for your problems, calling it a cancer and asking what can be done to 'combat it'. You're pretty obviously blaming the game for your lack of community.

But let me ask you - what have you done to build up the gaming community of the game you played?

Make friends so you don't need to sit around hoping for someone to walk in for a pickup game.
Remember it is a business first, if miniatures players spent enough he would be promoting more miniature games with their own game night and making sure tables are open for them. If people don't show they are willing to spend money on and support a game why would he not focus on what puts food on his table and the player base supports.

If you build it the will come.

Well you're a pair of curt individuals aren't you?

I have friends TVM, many of those people simply do not bother to come down to the one other late night the store has as the player base has simply evaporated overnight. This is not Field of Dreams, you can't just *ahem* magic players out of thin air.

I guess you glossed over the fact that we had a fledgling Warmahordes journeyman league made up of many disenfranchised GW game players. Gone. We had a Malifaux league with several players. All but gone.

If you are a store owner you embrace what is the most popular and what is making you money. Magic and games like X-Wing make the stores significantly more money than tabletop miniatures games, so the store owner should cultivate them as much as possible. They shouldn't exclude stuff like 40k & warmahordes if they carry it, but it'll likely take a lower priority as miniature games take up a lot of table space, where ccgs pack can use that same space better and the store also uses that space to generate income on a weekly basis.

If you want the store to do well, then you should be happy that they have a strong magic crowd going as it pays the bills and helps keep the lights on, however it sounds like you see "the store" as being the part that strictly caters to the miniature gaming which in most cases isn't what's driving the majority of sales.

It does partly depend on the store's actions. What does the store do to promote the games, and does it actively favor one over the other?
For example, is there a set "WarMaHordes Night"? If so, does the store keep some tables clear for it, or just let the MTG players take over if the WMH players don't get there soon enough, so the WMH players are SOL then? If a game night is scheduled (by the store), and the store keeps the tables open for it, but the players don't show, that's on the players. If a game night is scheduled, and the store doesn't keep any tables open for it, that's on the store for not supporting that game's community when it said it would.
It's a two way street, a store can only support a community if the community shows up, but the community can only show up if the store is willing to support them.

A store still has to support what sells the most to stay in business, but if it focuses on one to the exclusion of others, that isn't good for the longterm health of the store.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
It does partly depend on the store's actions. What does the store do to promote the games, and does it actively favor one over the other?

The only game that has been promoted is MTG. All the others were down to the players. I did much of the legwork for WMH (being a player since Mk1), which is why this issue concerns me so much as the playerbase that appeared has evaporated and/or realised MTG is pretty much the only thing played so went there.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

For example, is there a set "WarMaHordes Night"? If so, does the store keep some tables clear for it, or just let the MTG players take over if the WMH players don't get there soon enough, so the WMH players are SOL then? If a game night is scheduled (by the store), and the store keeps the tables open for it, but the players don't show, that's on the players. If a game night is scheduled, and the store doesn't keep any tables open for it, that's on the store for not supporting that game's community when it said it would.
It's a two way street, a store can only support a community if the community shows up, but the community can only show up if the store is willing to support them.

There is a game night on tuesdays where the store is open late and the standard friday night MTG. So tuesdays are open for anything (hell, one night we played Cards Against Humanity) and there was a thriving tabletop scene where you could get a game of pretty much anything and MTG was a little off to the side being played on the counter or during downtime.

Now? You could walk in and be forgiven for thinking the store is a card shop. All hours of the day talking MTG, making decks for MTG etc. Just recently a load of the tabletop players disappeared. Where? I've no idea. But I know for a fact a few don't bother going in to play as there is very little chance you'll get a game of something if you don't play MTG

I have no idea what to do as the owner is a friend and I know he would never actively exclude other systems, but I feel I'm just wasting my time showing up and buying stuff for a game I cannot play.

You still haven't answered my question.

What have you done to promote the community?

And yes I am "curt" because I'm not wasting time joining in your pity party. If you want s community for a game, build it. Talk to the store owner rather than complain about MTG on the Internet. Unless you're expecting him to read your mind or someone to magically come fix your problem.

If you're not already a PP Ganger, then I would become one.

Next step would be to create organised events on specific days so you, your friends and even maybe a part of the MTG crowd can rebuild your community and potentially expand it to even bigger levels than before, meanwhile because your doing work for PP you also get awesome cool free stuff

I can only see this as a win, win scenario from here, sure it may take a while but to me theends justify the means from here

Try taking your owner or PG into running some of the different organized play events for WMH.

Nobody's making these people play at gunpoint, amiright?

Unless the store owner has decreed that their shall only be Magic, then the reason everyone is playing it is because everyone wants to.

It isn't a dictatorship, the thing that's most widely play is the thing that most people want to.

Our club is in a similar position, other than we have the space to accommodate the Magic guys which I'm assuming your shop doesn't, otherwise there wouldn't be a problem, and they've saved the club from closure as the number of tabletop gamers has steadily shrunk.

If there are really a good number of tabletop gamers in the area as you say, get in touch with them, find a venue and start running a tabletop club, avoiding treading on the toes of your store's nights, and away you go.

If that's not going to work, you're probably now in a minority and just have to tread water until people get that itch again, it all goes in circles, people get bored, people stop playing, people miss playing, people start again.

My flgs actually reserves tables for said games, granted the owner does this because he knows people will show up to play but he also leaves tables open for other games. I can also call ahead and as to reserve tables in the case of challenges or in the case of prescheduled bouts between folks.

Ruin wrote:
What do you do when Magic the Gathering takes over pretty much the whole store?

Enjoy higher profits?

Seriously. Magic is how a lot of these places stay open.

Have you considered setting up a purely wargames club away from the store? If you can't get to play in the store, then speak to any of the current/former wargames regulars from the store as and when you see them and find out if they're still interested in WMH/Malifaux/whatever else used to be played in the store. If they are, then see if there's an area you can book to play in your local area; libraries, schools, community centres, heck even some pubs will have rooms that you can get access to for a small sum and/or jumping through some admin hoops, and if you can get that set up, all kinds of options are open to you.

You could set up a facebook group, blog or even a closed forum for the club, meet once a week or fortnight or month and arrange ahead of time who's bringing what, so you know if you'll be getting a game. Stick flyers up in the store if the owner is ok with that, maybe work in concert with the store to promote each other or see if he's willing to lend you terrain from the (apparently unused) store tables for your club nights ect.

This will require some legwork, especially if you are the sole runner/organiser for the club, but at the end of it you'll come out with an eager, committed, close and hopefully successful community that will grow over time (especially if you can stick a few leaflets or flyers in local game stores, or set up a site and promote that). You'll need to start small, most likely, but any gaming is better than no gaming at all, so if you're not getting the chance to play at the store then why not try and set something up, either on your own or with fellow gamers?

Do you have any contact with any of the players who used to show up for wargaming?

What do they say about why they stopped coming (or switched to magic), that's the important thing

did they get bored of the games (what would they like to play)?,

have their work patterns changed so the wargaming night was the wrong one (is there a good night for most)?

is the new magic set just too fun to miss (all you can do is wait it out some will get bored, some will get priced out)?

did the store not have a decent selection of terrain or tables (a few games on the wide open plains is fine, but it does dull and dictate what armies work well)

did the store owner drive them away ?

did a clique of jerks develop and drive the others away (the store owner needs to have a quiet word and if that does not help ban folk)

has a competing store (or club) drawn them away with better prices, better/more convenient facilities (if people were travelling to your store to play they'd be prepared to travel elsewhere too)

Not enough info to go on, sorry. I can only make some general statements based on what goes on in my stores.

-Players choose what games they want to play.
-A store can, and should, support many games. CCG, Boardgames, minature games.
-The store supporting a game may or may not do anything at all to get people to play that game. Sometimes you turn around and have 20 people playing a new game, and other times you do everything you can and get nothing.
-Magic can pay the bills, and is very popular right now. Paying the bills keeps the store open.

As others have said, i'd go talk with the store owner, maybe try to become a pressganger, work to get more people in to play. A lack of players is probably also a lack of sales on the game.

What region are you in, fella? I'm just wondering if there may be a nearby alternative.

When you say MTG is taking over, do you mean sealed events or just players turning up? Because a store owner can take thousands at a new set release, I know one that takes £10K on a launch weekend.
Convincing a store owner that bringing your models and rule books that you have already bought and taking up tables is a better alternative to allowing a refresh-based hobby like MTG is a difficult one.

I would say to speak to the store owner, and ask for a single dedicated evening. "Every second or third Friday." Work from there.

Does the store owner allow you to reserve tables? If you do reserve a table and there is no one there to fight, be sure to cancel it instead of leaving it reserved all evening though.

MTG is better in many ways for store gaming though; it requires less space so more people can use the same amount of space, plus I believe MTG games are generally substantially quicker than, so more people get to play again (or at least more games are turned over).

From that perspective I might see why a store owner would be hesitant to allow two people to hog a space for 4 hours that a whole bunch of other customers might have been able to use.

Ruin wrote:
Well you're a pair of curt individuals aren't you?

Welcome to Dakkadakka mate

Don't post in threads over a month old to add nothing of import. Thanks