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Looking to people for actual experience - not necessarily your own, but games you've played in and seen, rather than just opinion.

I'm trying to decide if I want to take the plunge and acquire one or more titans - possibly with an eye on the 'Leviathan' force chart for Horus Heresy.
My big concern is whether it's actually going to be any fun for an opponent to play against; I don't want to by a shelf ornament (which is why I wouldn't want a Warlord because that needs 3,000 point games to be an option regardless of any army selection criteria), and nor do I want to ruin people's weekends.

I've had limited experience with Titans myself - the only ones I've used are hierodules, which are frankly closer to Imperial Knight-Analogues than actual Scout or Battle Titans, and I'm a little concerned with my experience from those - the only time I've used them in 7th edition, an unbound pack of 3 of them ate a space wolves army alive. At the same time, I can see how the battle could have gone the other way if the space wolves had had more luck (or me less), and with people arming to face knights and wraithknights these days, it's less of an issue in 40k. Horus Heresy games don't really have that, though - except I guess for Mechanicum Qaestoris Knights.

The only times I've seen a 'proper' titan in the game have all been at Warhammer World events:

1 - way back when in 5th edition, at a Warhammer World event called "Warmarch" - A warhound titan turbo-lasered many, many bugs before one of the aforementioned biotitans punched it repeatedly in the gentleman's area and it exploded - killing 95% of both armies. Of course the ridiculously huge superheavy explosions are no longer a thing.

2 - a 6th edition apocalypse event (Sanctuary 101) where there were scratchbuilt titans galore and one Phantom Titan, where a friend of mine got mildly irked by just how ridiculous destroyer weapons were before it became possible to use cover and invulnerable saves against non-deathblow hits.

3 - The first (I think) Warhammer World 7th edition event, council of war - where my army was almost a sideshow as two eldar titans, three wraithknights, half a dozen knights and three reaver battle titans smashed seven shades of the proverbial out of each other. I was facing the only other player on the other team also not to have a war engine and my mission was defined as "place many layers of little bugs between the thunder hammer wielding space wolf cavalry and our titans' feet and take longer than 6 turns to die."

As a result, I've never actually seen the 'one-to-two true titans versus a combined arms detachment army' - I know in theory there's the inevitable argument about 'just play the mission'; but I was wondering if anyone has any actual table experience; Have you ever found your 1,500-2000 point army set up opposite a reaver titan, for example, and if so, what happened?

I'm less bothered about whether it wins, as long as both sides feel they have an actual chance to win. The reaver has enough weapon options (especially in Horus Heresy games) that you can tweak its power level a bit - from the "look awesome but I suspect not actually that great" Melta Cannon, Power Fist and Apocalypse Launcher to the "lose friends and influence people to punch you in the face" paired laser blaster and twin turbolaser carapace mount.

It's more an issue of whether it works as a concept at all? Have people played against an army with models in it that they literally cannot hurt?
I know people bug out against Knights for a similar reason - rendering many models in squads just ablative wounds and many squads nothing but target practice and objective holders.

I've done it once with the tyranids - using objective secured tervigons and drowning biomancy-enhanced Nurgle daemon princes in termagants that are nothing but balesword fodder for six turns, but that was a game where neither side had massive ordnance-blast guns, so it may not translate.

I played one game without a Titan against an army with a Titan below 2500. My army got smoked. It wasn't fun for me, nor was it fun for the Titan player.

My recommendation is to reserve titans for games against other titans.

I've not played with or against Titans very often. It is difficult for me to transport my Revenant and I pre-arrange games before I show up. I don't recommend just showing up for a pick up game with a titan. Better to let your opponent know in advance as games can and do get lopsided otherwise.

I did play in one 3 game event where anything was allowed. My Revenant was scary against the unprepared and honestly, not that fun. My final game was against an Imperial army running a Reaver Titan. I had first turn and destroyed the titan and the game was over, which also was not a lot of fun. This event was set at 1850 points, so a titan is a significant investment of points

I've played a game where I ran a basic Eldar CAD against multiple Imperial Knights when they were first released, but we set up the game in advance. I ran 21 Brightlances and a fortification with 2 Quad Lascannons (I forget its name). The game was over by turn 2 as IK did not have enough damage output. I only state this as at the time, folks were looking at IK as breaking the game as they were the becoming readily accepted mini titans for regular play.

I've played against supers several times. The max points value was 900 (three wraithknights) which was zero fun, but I've enjoyed games against stuff like baneblades.

I've never been a fan of incorporating Escalation into standard games with literally no downside.

I played a team game against a revenant titan, or what ever the smaller of the eldar titans is, excluding wraithknight and a baneblade. I was on the side with no superheavies. I actually had a good time, it was fun trying to figure how to take the superheavies out.

Its common for me to play a Knight Titan at 1850, but I would never field a Warhound in such low point games. Push gise ponts up to 3000+, and its a different story.

SJ

I have never faced one but several of the members of my club have one, including one lucky bugger with a Warlord.

Myself though, I am looking to scratchbuild one, once the 502nd Shwere Panzer Battalion is finished.

I played a game with a Paladin Knight... In a 750 point game... Needless to say, the CSM player crapped himself when it insta gibbed his bloodthirster

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
I played a game with a Paladin Knight... In a 750 point game... Needless to say, the CSM player crapped himself when it insta gibbed his bloodthirster

First you bring a knight to a 750 point game... against Chaos?

Unless it's a tournament that is a rather harsh list for a friendly game especially against what is arguably the weakest codex in the game right now.

Generally you want a titan on either side and for it to be a big game so you have stuff for yours to focus on and be focused by allowing the little stuff to sort of have it's fight on the side cautiously.

I've played more then a few. I was the first to get a titan class in our group. We were playing apoc and I dropped in a rev for my dark eldar. It mopped up house, and started an arms race. One of my buddies picked up a warhound - the other a reaver. Next game featured my rev and a bunch of DE vrs a reaver and a warhound. Needless to say I lost most of my army. The rev did survive (down to a single sp immobile and no guns) but I did take down the warhound and seriously banged up the reaver. My next move was to bring in an Air Force. 2 FW Phoenix fighter things and 3 of the dark Eldar fighter. Next game it proved the diffirence and i won convincingly. (Ravagers stripping off void shields, followed by void lance and pulsars to finish). So the next response was air power. The warhound player picked up some hellblade and the reaver guy grabbed a caestus and a thunderbolt. From there games got pretty even. I've since added a phantom, but have yet to really get it some combat.

So far tho - the titan on titan battles have been pretty awsome. Titans definitly need other Titans to beat on. Otherwise it feels .... Hollow when they get a kill. It's easy to pound a unit of infantry with a pulsar - but taking down a super heavy is better. Especially if it's in the same "weight class" - then it makes for a good duel when they you have to kill the other one but keep yourself alive.

The rev has a good list of kills and has taken down way more SH threats then times he's been lost. I've got another apoc game coming soon and I'm planning on fielding both the rev and phantom for the first time together. I'm considering adding some wraith knight guards and a few more aircraft to back them up. However I expect to see at least 1 warhound, a ton of baneblades, more then a few stompas and possibly another rev titan. No idea on how the sides will split up. But should be a really fun game

 Konrax wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
I played a game with a Paladin Knight... In a 750 point game... Needless to say, the CSM player crapped himself when it insta gibbed his bloodthirster

First you bring a knight to a 750 point game... against Chaos?

Unless it's a tournament that is a rather harsh list for a friendly game especially against what is arguably the weakest codex in the game right now.

There was a guy in the store who just painted up and magnetized his Knight and there was 45 minutes left before the store closed, so we did a 750 point game with a knight... Plus I had the Knight in reserves and the CSM player is the store's designated TFG

Imperial/Eldar/Chaos Titans are more balanced now than they were back when they were Appoc only. But only because the game has come up to their level.

Warhounds are undercosted, but not nearly as much as other recent releases. They're durable, but they can still be killed by the usual suspects like suicide melta, and anything that can kill AV14 in melee will bang a Titan up.

You should be playing no smaller than 1850 points IMO if you bring Warhound or bigger stuff. Knights are fine above 1500 as well.

I think that to properly run a titan it should be no more then 40% of your total points. Not only for fairness but also because to be effective you need to protect it with smaller stuff. Nothing sucks more then having your big titan die to a bunch of 5 man infantry squads packing Melta guns. Yup you have BIG guns. And yup can split fire. But at most you can target 4 things (for most Titans). A smart enemy will go crazy MSU and stuff WILL get through and take down your big scary. Protecting him with your own stuff allows the titan to focus on proper targets instead of baking that 100 pt 5 man marine squad.

 DarthSpader wrote:
I think that to properly run a titan it should be no more then 40% of your total points. Not only for fairness but also because to be effective you need to protect it with smaller stuff. Nothing sucks more then having your big titan die to a bunch of 5 man infantry squads packing Melta guns. Yup you have BIG guns. And yup can split fire. But at most you can target 4 things (for most Titans). A smart enemy will go crazy MSU and stuff WILL get through and take down your big scary. Protecting him with your own stuff allows the titan to focus on proper targets instead of baking that 100 pt 5 man marine squad.

That was sort of the point - I was wanting people's experience of doing precisely that (or having it done to them).

I know[i] that 1500 points of 'stuff' can be shot to hell by a reaver titan in short order, so if all you're doing is playing 'first one to die loses', the game is just an exercise in rolling dice until the other army goes away.

But what I'm trying to figure out is what happens when the reaver doesn't have bubble-wrap units, and can't just play static gun-line - because it's the only unit in the army, so it has to advance out into mid-field to take objectives. In 40k, you can get tar-pitted by something with Objective Secured. In Horus Heresy, you can't - but instead advancing into mid-field means you get very limited use out of your carapace mount due to the 18" minimum range against non-superheavies. With no point defence weapons (unlike a knight) you can't 'tag' a target to charge with a heavy stubber or flamer shot - you have to level your main gun at it.

It also depends on armament. The value of Warhound Titans is, I think, very dependent on what they're armed with. A warhound with double-dual turbo-lasers should vapourize two knights before they reached it....and in exactly the same situation, a titan with the 'stock' warhound armament of Vulcan and plasma blastgun will probably manage to cause only a couple of hull points damage to one - and then get chainbladed down in one round of combat. I really don't understand why all four warhound weapons are considered equal.


So - so far, two 'not fun', one 'fun' and one 'fun if there's another engine too'. I'd probably put my experience from Warmarch under 'fun' - which makes everything even - but it's from two rules editions ago. Does anyone else have any direct experience?

I played one game without a Titan against an army with a Titan below 2500. My army got smoked. It wasn't fun for me, nor was it fun for the Titan player.

I did play in one 3 game event where anything was allowed. My Revenant was scary against the unprepared and honestly, not that fun. My final game was against an Imperial army running a Reaver Titan. I had first turn and destroyed the titan and the game was over, which also was not a lot of fun.

I played a team game against a revenant titan, or what ever the smaller of the eldar titans is, excluding wraithknight and a baneblade. I was on the side with no superheavies. I actually had a good time, it was fun trying to figure how to take the superheavies out.

So far tho - the titan on titan battles have been pretty awsome. Titans definitly need other Titans to beat on. Otherwise it feels .... Hollow when they get a kill. It's easy to pound a unit of infantry with a pulsar - but taking down a super heavy is better. Especially if it's in the same "weight class" - then it makes for a good duel when they you have to kill the other one but keep yourself alive.

I guess I should post my experiences with SHV instead of just my opinion

First game when coming back into sixth involved borrowing a mates Tau against an IK. Got stomped hard, but it was my first game so eh. Didn't have a lot of fun in hindsight.

I've then done 1250 point games against an IK. They weren't really fun at all. Every time it was allied with a gunline army which I generally despise playing against anyway. But when I have to devote a considerable amount of resources to deal with the SHV while still maintaining mobility and firepower to deal with the rest of the army. At 1250, I don't enjoy this - I like to have a theme to the army and having to tailor for SHV can detract from this.

Not Titans, but SHV.

Friend of mine was preparing his list for a campaign. He brought the Stormlord (the chaingun Baneblade), while I had no SHV of my own. I already knew other players would have SHVs as well (luckily I didn't fight them), so I put 3x3 Fusion Blasters Crisis in my list, supported by 2x2 outflanking Tetras. His Baneblade died the turn the Crisis arrived and took a swathe of his Guardsmen near it.

Another game, this guy went against a DE list with Skitarii and an IK as allies. First turn, the Stormlord player basically killed every Skitarii without cover. Only the IK remained at the front lines (which remained with 1 HP after 12 lascannons hit it).

Noone around here have real Titans... too expensive.

I've only seen titans in action in a couple of 5E apocalypse matches. They tended to quad pwn everything...

In 7E I have used the Hellhammer tank, which has always underperformed immensely. As far as I can tell, so long as the SHV does not use the D, and has no more than a cover save for saving, it's very unlikely to be OP.

Ive never played against a titan, but my 2 cents say its a good idea to discuss it first. I could definetly enjoy a game against a Reaver or Warhound. If i had som IKs it could be really cool to put a squad of IKs up against a Warhound, while 1500 points of a regular battle was raging. A battle in the shadows of giants.

Not Titan either but SHV, I was playing aganst one of my regular opponents - yes that one - whom had decided to bring his Chaos. He had (If I recall):
Demon Primarch Fulgrim with 2 Obliterators

10 Bezerkers in a Rhino

10 Plague Marines, two with plasma guns, in a Rhino

5 Chosen, all Melta, in a Rhino

2 5 man Thousand Sons blobs, one in a Rhino, one DS

2 10 man cultist squads in reserve

2 Chaos Sorcerers and a Ahriman

A Vindicator

I had:

My Shadow Sword

a LRBT command tank with an LRBT escort

2 Exterminators

My Thunderer

Inquisitor in PA with a Demon Blade

3 Veteran sections, all with FS and a HB

Company Command Section with a MoO and a MoF

Vindicaire


What I found here was that it was not the firepower of the Shadow Sword which won me the game but its presence. You see, we where playing that Sewers City of Death scenario and he had his Warlord (guess who), 20 Cultists and one 5 man Thousand Sons blob in reserves, everything else was out in the field.

My Shadow Swords first two shots failed to do anything save knock a Rhino out, however it was not this that was impressive. My opponent failed to cross the half way line, except on one occasion whereby his Bezerkers tried to charge in and where gunned down. The mere presence of my SHV scared him enough to stay right back, and after it decimated the cultists and one of the 5 man Thousand Sons blast (all whom had emerged from a manhole cover and where blobbed up together) he refused to move out of cover at all.
The funny thing is that being rushed was the one thing which I truly feared, it was the one tactic, which thanks to the terrain was fully viable, which I knew would break my army, and yet he did not get close once. Those 5 Chosen? They hid just out of his deployment zone after their Rhino was knocked out and never once got a use of that Melta. That Demon Primarch? he finally emerged at the end of the game and died to amassed fire.
Just the mere threat of a Shadowsword kept my opponent from winning, its mere presence clouded his judgement and caused him to hide all his stuff and go for a war of attrition, something that I, with my camo geared guard, was far better prepared for. If he had tried to get lose and assault instead of slugging it out, say, by using an amassed charge, I would have lost. But he didnt.

Yeah.... As a CSM player who had zero access to Knights for quite some time, even a knight sucks the fun out of most games. So taking a titan to a knife fight is no fun at all for the unprepared player.

I just had a 4k game with my mate's two warhound titans vrs my reaver. Ended up smoking the crap out of his two hounds. But the winners of the evening were my Khorne Dawgs who ended up getting sucked into close combat with one titan and locked him in combat for 2 turns! Didn't know that was even possible until the day. However, saying that, you have to be fearless and not get squished by the D feetz.

Still, it's a viable tactic if you're a Nids player apparently.

So while Titans are amazing unstopable killing machines... Throw some beasies at them and they're tar-pitted for the game.

But unless your opponent want's a crack against a Titan with a pen knife and a can do attitude, leave it on the shelf.