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My veteran Warhammer friend swears on the War Convocation formation for the Adeptus Mechanicus, and said he's going to use it the next time we play. I want to know if it is really as broken and unstoppable as I fear it is, and if possible, how to shut it down.

A few facts:

* I'll be using a Tau army.
* It will be an 1850 point game.
* It will be an objective game.
* There will be at least 4 armies on the table, including my Tau and my friend's AdMech.
* The game will take place on Friday.
* I heard all kinds of nasty things on how AdMech can fully heal their machines and one-shot kill enemy machines. Basically, I'm not sure it will be a fun game for anyone.

My goal is to break an army I was told is unbreakable, in a game I've just recently learned the rules to. Impossible? Maybe. Crazy? Definitely. But if it is possible, I want to make him eat his words. And I need your help with that, even if I have to throw my entire army at him to shut him down.

So, where do I start?

What do you have for new tau? The OSC shouldn't have trouble dealing with the knight. The rest of the army should be able to focus down the troops. Use the combined fire rules on scarier units. I believe there is usually a death starfish thing in the war con.

The War Convocation is a great formation, but it is not that over powered. What makes it dangerous for many is the fact it has a Imperial Knight in it that benefits from the Canticles special rules from AdMech.

That being said the formation itself contains a large number of very fragile and easy to kill units and none of it has Obsec. The unit of vanguard and Rangers are very easy to kill especially is you can ignore cover, which Tau has plenty of. The 2 elite units ,Infiltrators and Rustwalkers, are fast and do honestly pack a hard CC punch are VERY fragile. They are T3 with 2 wounds, meaning they are doubled out and get no FNP from Str 6 or better. Again, which Tau have plenty of. If you ignore cover you take away their only real defense. So that is 4 units that are very easy to get rid of.

The Breachers or Destroyers are the core troop of the AdMech and are tough and can have a great range, but usually you will only see 2 units of 3 and they can be dealt with as the Destroyers are only 4+ save and Breachers are a 3+ save. Hit them from a distance with low ap shooting and wipe them out.

Outside of the Knight and Elite units the army is VERY slow. So if you can take out these out early and first the rest should be easy to deal with.

Now what you have to worry about is what else he is bringing in the list. The Convocation is set on the number of units and what they are, but he can still add in units to the Cult Mechanicus portion of the list as well as take other formations out side the Convocation. A straight forward War Convocation runs about 1400 to 1500 pts base without adding in more units or making them bigger. This means he can still have 300 to 400 points ot play with for extra stuff.

I myself use a Flesh Tearer Formation to get a Sang Priest, 5 scouts and three drop pods to drop my Destroyers and an allied Cullexus Assassin ally where i need them.

With the new toys for Tau and the massive firepower they can bring, if you target the right units early, it should make a very fair game.

AdMech War Convocation is overpowered, eh? And that coming from a Tau player. Cute. Very cute.

You have so many options at your disposal to shut down the AdMech War Convocation before it even gets to do anything. If anything, the AdMech player could use help figuring out how to shut down Tau.

You think that playing AdMech won't be fun because they can repair vehicles and are good at destroying vehicles, yet you play TAU. The army of "I'm gonna sit here and delete your units, but thanks for showing up so I could kick in your teeth".

Tau has plenty of guns with AP4 and can throw around Ignores Cover like candy. A War Convocation gets 1 unit of Vanguard and 1 unit of Rangers, which don't get transports. You'll have plenty of time to vaporize them before they get to effectively do anything.

A War Convocation also gets a unit of Ruststalkers, which are insta-gibbed by S6, AP4, ignores cover...which again, Tau has tons of. It also gets a unit of Infiltrators, which are also insta-gibbed by S6, AP4 and ignores cover, the only difference being that these ones are even MORE reliant on cover, which oh, right, Tau doesn't care about.

A War Convocation will generally have 2 units of Destroyers, which as pointed out are also only 4+ armor, so you have plenty of guns to ignore it.

Each unit you take out makes the Canticles weaker and weaker, and let's face it, Tau specializes in removing entire units in a given turn.

Most likely the AdMech player was boasting up the War Convocation to try and make you overestimate the power of the various units and make a mistake allowing him to have any chance at victory. It sounded like it was working considering how terrified you were of it, when in reality you, as Tau, have absolutely NOTHING to worry about.

You're right in that it's probably not going to be a fun game. That being said, I suspect it's not going to be in the direction you expected. Instead, I predict the game won't be at all fun for the AdMech player, particularly if you're trying to specifically tool your army to remove his. I predict he lasts 3 turns, if that.

Janwin wrote:
AdMech War Convocation is overpowered, eh? And that coming from a Tau player. Cute. Very cute.

You have so many options at your disposal to shut down the AdMech War Convocation before it even gets to do anything. If anything, the AdMech player could use help figuring out how to shut down Tau.

You think that playing AdMech won't be fun because they can repair vehicles and are good at destroying vehicles, yet you play TAU. The army of "I'm gonna sit here and delete your units, but thanks for showing up so I could kick in your teeth".

Tau has plenty of guns with AP4 and can throw around Ignores Cover like candy. A War Convocation gets 1 unit of Vanguard and 1 unit of Rangers, which don't get transports. You'll have plenty of time to vaporize them before they get to effectively do anything.

A War Convocation also gets a unit of Ruststalkers, which are insta-gibbed by S6, AP4, ignores cover...which again, Tau has tons of. It also gets a unit of Infiltrators, which are also insta-gibbed by S6, AP4 and ignores cover, the only difference being that these ones are even MORE reliant on cover, which oh, right, Tau doesn't care about.

A War Convocation will generally have 2 units of Destroyers, which as pointed out are also only 4+ armor, so you have plenty of guns to ignore it.

Each unit you take out makes the Canticles weaker and weaker, and let's face it, Tau specializes in removing entire units in a given turn.

Most likely the AdMech player was boasting up the War Convocation to try and make you overestimate the power of the various units and make a mistake allowing him to have any chance at victory. It sounded like it was working considering how terrified you were of it, when in reality you, as Tau, have absolutely NOTHING to worry about.

You're right in that it's probably not going to be a fun game. That being said, I suspect it's not going to be in the direction you expected. Instead, I predict the game won't be at all fun for the AdMech player, particularly if you're trying to specifically tool your army to remove his. I predict he lasts 3 turns, if that.

Show me on Doll where the tau player touched you? Such venom, arrogance and lack of reading comprehension.

OP, the really scary things are the Knight and destroyers. If your opponents bring the Emperors taxi service (Scouts, sang priest + drop pods), the army is definitely top notch. Fortunately, Tau have the power to shut it down quite hard. You should take something like 2x Riptide or Tide + storm surge if you can to provide the interceptor you need. You didn't really provide us a list of stuff you want to play/have so I'll give you some target priority tips.

First thing, kill the destroyers ASAP. They can delete any unit in the tau codex in one turn. Missle pods are decent with ignore cover (they only have 4+ save).
If they are dead and any vanguard or Rangers are close, shoot them. If not:

Shoot the knight with any (spare) firepower you have. Before the "new'' codex knights of all variety were the tau's big weakness. Now the storm surge pretty solidly plugs the gap. If you have one, light up the night whenever its convenient and have it eat 4x strD ignore cover hits. If you don't have it you're going to take a couple of turns surrounding it with Deep striking crisis, hitting it with missile pods etc. But it will take time.

After this just clean up his army. Its not a bad match-up for tau. Let us know if he uses drop pods, because they are the real game changer for this army. (If he brings drop pods, deployment of your interceptors and your army is critical. Savvy pod players can avoid your interceptor fire if you don't deploy

Their main way of keeping their units alive is through the Canticle of the Omnissiah- Shroudpsalm. This give their units Stealth and Shrouded. Simply treat the army as you would any other, use your markerlights and combine your firepower to take out enemy units that present the largest threat to you on a turn by turn basis, or cripple them so that they no longer pose a threat.

You should probably take at least two different squads capable of using markerlights so you can reliably take out two units per turn. You may also want some interceptor incase he takes the pod list (tournament version of this formation).

The likely units that will be a threat to you are the Knight and his CC units, which are very fast. Sicarian units and Dragoons add +3 to all movements including assaults, and half the army has Scout, the playstyle of the War Convocation is very aggressive so he will be moving forward, kind of similar to Necrons.

Lucky for you, you use Monstrous Creatures for your suits, Admech can bring lots of haywire so unless you run a Fish of Fury or Tau Armored Company list you will be okay.

Note that Skitarii squads will carry an Omnispex, special weapons, and the Sergeant will have an invuln save, 2 wounds, and likely a special relic. If you let them get close to your pathfinders, firewarriors, etc. the Skitarii will come out on top. Keep the Skitarii more than 18'' away, this is the effective range of most of their weapons.

Like I said before, just focus fire like with any other army you would fight. With War Convocation people often fall into the "oh my god there's a Knight on the other side of the table I must shoot it now, oh my god the entire army has a 2+ cover save for 2 turns" and they panic. This is exactly what a War Convocation player like myself wants.

Also, I don't see many other WarCon players take Kastellans, but if he does take them know that taking them out might be tough for you, and he can bounce back shots on the roll of a 6. Might not want to shoot D missiles at them incase you roll the D3 result, chances are small but you know the dice gods will have you taking 3 wounds off your own guy thanks to repulsor grid .

Hope this helps.

Lionheart713 wrote:
My veteran Warhammer friend swears on the War Convocation formation for the Adeptus Mechanicus, and said he's going to use it the next time we play. I want to know if it is really as broken and unstoppable as I fear it is, and if possible, how to shut it down.

A few facts:

* I'll be using a Tau army.
* It will be an 1850 point game.
* It will be an objective game.
* There will be at least 4 armies on the table, including my Tau and my friend's AdMech.
* The game will take place on Friday.
* I heard all kinds of nasty things on how AdMech can fully heal their machines and one-shot kill enemy machines. Basically, I'm not sure it will be a fun game for anyone.

My goal is to break an army I was told is unbreakable, in a game I've just recently learned the rules to. Impossible? Maybe. Crazy? Definitely. But if it is possible, I want to make him eat his words. And I need your help with that, even if I have to throw my entire army at him to shut him down.

So, where do I start?

As an Admech player, I doubt you'll have any trouble. As others have said, Admech is mostly T3, 4+sv, FnP, multiwound that relies on cover. Tau eats that for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. You'll be denying FnP, armor saves, ignoring cover, and making him come to you (he doesn't have any transports), so it'll be mostly a shooting gallery.

Even the big stuff won't be too troubling. A single Knight is easy pickings for S8-10, AP1 weapons, and while Kataphron Destroyers are strong, they're still only T5 with a 4+Sv. You'll mop them up with missiles.

Don't know who told you they were an "unbeatable army," but they were probably messing with you. Tau is basically a hard counter for basically anything in the War Convocation. I almost don't want to give you tips so it'll be a bit more of a fun game for the Admech dude!

DoW

 Hawkeye888 wrote:
What do you have for new tau? The OSC shouldn't have trouble dealing with the knight. The rest of the army should be able to focus down the troops. Use the combined fire rules on scarier units. I believe there is usually a death starfish thing in the war con.

I have many models, but I only played Tau once before, when I had less than half of what I have now, and got tabled by my friend, who said I should be glad he didn't get AdMech.

Here's what I have now, all I need to do is optimize their organization (and pick which units to include, which to keep out of the game):

Tau Commander
Commander Farsight
Commander Shadowsun
Longstrike
Ethereal
Cadre Fireblade
1 Fire Warrior Strike Team
1 Fire Warrior Breacher Team
1 Kroot Carnivores squad (with three Kroot Hounds)
6 Crisis Battlesuits
1 Ghostkeel
3 Riptides
2 Pathfinder Teams
2 Devilfish
1 Sun Shark Bomber
1 Hammerhead Gunship (I could insert Longstrike here)
2 Broadsides
1 Stormsurge
All the drones that come with the units listed above (except for one which fell out the window)

Janwin wrote:
AdMech War Convocation is overpowered, eh? And that coming from a Tau player. Cute. Very cute.

...

Most likely the AdMech player was boasting up the War Convocation to try and make you overestimate the power of the various units and make a mistake allowing him to have any chance at victory. It sounded like it was working considering how terrified you were of it, when in reality you, as Tau, have absolutely NOTHING to worry about.

You're right in that it's probably not going to be a fun game. That being said, I suspect it's not going to be in the direction you expected. Instead, I predict the game won't be at all fun for the AdMech player, particularly if you're trying to specifically tool your army to remove his. I predict he lasts 3 turns, if that.

I don't want it to be fun for him. He's boasting that he's played in official tournaments and even won a couple, when the rest of us play occasionally. I want to tear down his tournament-winning ego down to Earth, if at all possible.

 Fruzzle wrote:

OP, the really scary things are the Knight and destroyers. If your opponents bring the Emperors taxi service (Scouts, sang priest + drop pods), the army is definitely top notch. Fortunately, Tau have the power to shut it down quite hard. You should take something like 2x Riptide or Tide + storm surge if you can to provide the interceptor you need. You didn't really provide us a list of stuff you want to play/have so I'll give you some target priority tips.

First thing, kill the destroyers ASAP. They can delete any unit in the tau codex in one turn. Missle pods are decent with ignore cover (they only have 4+ save).
If they are dead and any vanguard or Rangers are close, shoot them. If not:

Shoot the knight with any (spare) firepower you have. Before the "new'' codex knights of all variety were the tau's big weakness. Now the storm surge pretty solidly plugs the gap. If you have one, light up the night whenever its convenient and have it eat 4x strD ignore cover hits. If you don't have it you're going to take a couple of turns surrounding it with Deep striking crisis, hitting it with missile pods etc. But it will take time.

After this just clean up his army. Its not a bad match-up for tau. Let us know if he uses drop pods, because they are the real game changer for this army. (If he brings drop pods, deployment of your interceptors and your army is critical. Savvy pod players can avoid your interceptor fire if you don't deploy

So my priority targets are: Destroyers, then anything uncomfortably close to my units, then the Knight (with the Stormsurge), then Deep Strike my Starfish of Death into the AdMech camp and clean up shop. Is that correct?

 ultimentra wrote:
Their main way of keeping their units alive is through the Canticle of the Omnissiah- Shroudpsalm. This give their units Stealth and Shrouded. Simply treat the army as you would any other, use your markerlights and combine your firepower to take out enemy units that present the largest threat to you on a turn by turn basis, or cripple them so that they no longer pose a threat.

You should probably take at least two different squads capable of using markerlights so you can reliably take out two units per turn. You may also want some interceptor incase he takes the pod list (tournament version of this formation).

...

Like I said before, just focus fire like with any other army you would fight. With War Convocation people often fall into the "oh my god there's a Knight on the other side of the table I must shoot it now, oh my god the entire army has a 2+ cover save for 2 turns" and they panic. This is exactly what a War Convocation player like myself wants.

Also, I don't see many other WarCon players take Kastellans, but if he does take them know that taking them out might be tough for you, and he can bounce back shots on the roll of a 6. Might not want to shoot D missiles at them incase you roll the D3 result, chances are small but you know the dice gods will have you taking 3 wounds off your own guy thanks to repulsor grid .

Hope this helps.

So markerlight through their shroud and rain down bullets from all sides, eliminating one unit at a time systematically until everything is completely destroyed?

 DogOfWar wrote:
As an Admech player, I doubt you'll have any trouble. As others have said, Admech is mostly T3, 4+sv, FnP, multiwound that relies on cover. Tau eats that for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. You'll be denying FnP, armor saves, ignoring cover, and making him come to you (he doesn't have any transports), so it'll be mostly a shooting gallery.

Even the big stuff won't be too troubling. A single Knight is easy pickings for S8-10, AP1 weapons, and while Kataphron Destroyers are strong, they're still only T5 with a 4+Sv. You'll mop them up with missiles.

Don't know who told you they were an "unbeatable army," but they were probably messing with you. Tau is basically a hard counter for basically anything in the War Convocation. I almost don't want to give you tips so it'll be a bit more of a fun game for the Admech dude!

The person who told me they're an unbeatable army is a tournament-winning dude who's boasting to his casual novice 40K friends. I'm one of them, having just gotten into the hobby. You can see my unit list above, if you're interested in helping me form a proper army optimized to be the "War-Convocation-Cancellation" formation.

The War Convocation really is not that special. Yes you get free upgrades -- but you know what, AdMech and Skitarii and Knights don't have many upgrades (digital weapons for all characters! wow!). I don't know where this idea that it is unbeatable comes from.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It's really weird, honestly.

PS. the Knight does not benefit much from the Canticles. (The Skitarii go though!)

Lionheart713 wrote:

 Hawkeye888 wrote:
What do you have for new tau? The OSC shouldn't have trouble dealing with the knight. The rest of the army should be able to focus down the troops. Use the combined fire rules on scarier units. I believe there is usually a death starfish thing in the war con.

I have many models, but I only played Tau once before, when I had less than half of what I have now, and got tabled by my friend, who said I should be glad he didn't get AdMech.

Here's what I have now, all I need to do is optimize their organization (and pick which units to include, which to keep out of the game):

Tau Commander
Commander Farsight
Commander Shadowsun
Longstrike
Ethereal
Cadre Fireblade
1 Fire Warrior Strike Team
1 Fire Warrior Breacher Team
1 Kroot Carnivores squad (with three Kroot Hounds)
6 Crisis Battlesuits
1 Ghostkeel
3 Riptides
2 Pathfinder Teams
2 Devilfish
1 Sun Shark Bomber
1 Hammerhead Gunship (I could insert Longstrike here)
2 Broadsides
1 Stormsurge
All the drones that come with the units listed above (except for one which fell out the window)

People already gave good advice, but let's see what I can add:

Machine Hunters, 1850p
Hunter Contingent [1462]
Hunter Cadre [1406]
Tau Commander (MSSS, CCN, Iridium, PENchip, Onager) [165]
Cadre Fireblade [60]
1x7 Fire Warrior Strike Team (Carbines, EMP) + Devilfish [157]
1x7 Fire Warrior Breacher Team (EMP) + Devilfish [157]
1x10 Kroot Carnivores squad + 1 Kroot Hound [65]
1x1 Riptide (IA, EWO) [190]
2x4 Pathfinder Teams [88]
1x2 Broadside Battlesuits (TLHYMP, ATS) [136]
1x1 Stormsurge (TLAFP, PDC, EWO, ATS) [388]

Drone Network [56]
1x4 Gun Drones [56]

Farsight Enclaves [383]
Ethereal (Recon Armor, Homing Beacon) [60]
3x1 Crisis (BKR, 2xMP) [159]
1x3 Crisis (BKR, 2xCIB, 2 with TL) [169]

What's the deal?
- FSE Monat Crisis will Deep Strike at his backline objectives (forcing him to divide attention/fire) and fire at his backside 4+ armour models. Also, they can pepper some S7 at the Knight. Be sure to use JSJ behind impassable/cover to avoid losing them fast.
- FSE big unit will Deep Strike close to the Ethereal, to reap a lot of 4+ armour models.
- Ethereal joins Breacher Team, Cadre Fireblade joins Strike Team. Put them inside their Devilfishes and advance to bring the fight to the enemy. Disembark the drones the turn you'll shoot and have each team fire with their respective Devilfish and Drones at the same target - so they'll be BS4. Run and shoot with Breachers to get them at 5"; if they're already there, Flat out and Shoot with Devilfishes so they can stick between its team and the enemy (if you position it like that during disembark, it'll be better). Fire a blinding grenade from the Striker Team if you are in range.
If necessary, charge the Knight with them to Haywire it to death. Don't disembark the Ethereal nor the Fireblade, unless you know you won't need to move the Strike Team next turn. Ethereal with Storm of Fire, of course (this will require the Breachers to be at 2.5" of the enemy).
If you think Run and Shoot won't be necessary, ditch the Fireblade and bring more guys in both teams.
- Infiltrate or Outflank the Kroot. Their gun isn't good for this matchup, but you need them to fill Hunter Cadre requirements. Put them in Knight's way to be a nuisance.
- Riptide will be your Kataphron cleaner and, alongside Stormsurge, protection vs Deep Strikers (if he uses Blood Angels taxi service)
- Pathfinders for markerlights, as usual. Protect them!
- Broadsides with ATS to have those pesky special weapon guys killed. Buffmander goes here. Fire with this unit at the Knight, bringing in the Stormsurge and the Riptide along for sweet re-roll to hit, +1BS and Tank Hunter, as also enjoying markerlight as one (this is the time you fire the Destroyer missiles as SD at the Knight; be sure to light it up with markies!). Fire this unit with other S7 at pesky enemies to ignore their cover and save markerlights for BS boost.
- Stormsurge gets the longer range weapon to kill swathes of the enemy (don't forget to anchor it at turn 1!); ATS will let you kill special weapon guys. Only use the Destroyer missiles at the Knight.
- The gun drones can Deep Strike, be a nuisance or go beside the Devilfishes to help with Coordinated Firepower.

The biggest problem he can bring is Robot Maniple; kill those last.

Lionheart713 wrote:
I don't want it to be fun for him.

I...see. Why are you even playing the game, then? I mean, the point of playing a game is to have fun, for both parties involved, isn't it?

We have a few of those kinds of tournament players at our store. But even playing against them, the point is to have fun. After all, it's a game.

I hate to say it, but if your entire point for playing a game is to ruin someone else's day, no matter how much they may have it coming, you may well be "that guy".

Lionheart713 wrote:
So markerlight through their shroud and rain down bullets from all sides, eliminating one unit at a time systematically until everything is completely destroyed?

Yes. Dealing with AdMech involves using the same exact tactic as dealing with any other force as Tau. It's just that the benefits AdMech have are 100% countered by Tau, instead of only mostly countered like other armies. 4+ armor? Nope! 3T FnP? Lots of S6! Cover to stay alive? Lulz!

Lionheart713 wrote:
The person who told me they're an unbeatable army is a tournament-winning dude who's boasting to his casual novice 40K friends. I'm one of them, having just gotten into the hobby. You can see my unit list above, if you're interested in helping me form a proper army optimized to be the "War-Convocation-Cancellation" formation.

It sounds like this guy is an idiot, who may well never have actually run a War Convocation against Tau before, or if he did, he went against Tau running all Kroot or something stupid. If he had, he'd know that Tau are the hard counter to AdMech, and there's little an AdMech player can do to come out on top. The more likely case, as pointed out, is that he is hoping that by talking it up, he'll get you to do something stupid and make some horrible mistake in the game (being new) that allows him to capitalize on it and turn the table. It seriously sounds like he's trying to play the psych meta-game on you, but you really have little to worry about.

That being said, I believe you mentioned this is a 2v2 game? That is your real threat, depending on what his ally brings. If his opponent brings something difficult for Tau to deal with, and you're focusing on the AdMech because you're terrified of them, it could allow his ally to deal with you.

All of Vector Strike's suggestions are pretty good ways to deal with AdMech.

There are some good advice here. Unfortunately, the most important thing here is not the lists, but rather, the experiences of the generals involved. Here you've got a seasoned tournament player against a newbie who's just starting to play the new Tau. Now I don't know what your prior experience is with the previous Tau, but I'd expect you to get walloped a few times before you know how to play against his list. Tau actually has all the tools to be a problematic matchup for Admech. The only thing is how well do you know to use those tools? That is where experience comes in and unless you are a 40K prodigy, everyone will have to pay their dues, which in this case will probably be getting schooled by a more experienced player. But don't worry, the more you play, the more the tide will turn against him.

Janwin wrote:
I...see. Why are you even playing the game, then? I mean, the point of playing a game is to have fun, for both parties involved, isn't it?

We have a few of those kinds of tournament players at our store. But even playing against them, the point is to have fun. After all, it's a game.

I hate to say it, but if your entire point for playing a game is to ruin someone else's day, no matter how much they may have it coming, you may well be "that guy".

...

It sounds like this guy is an idiot, who may well never have actually run a War Convocation against Tau before, or if he did, he went against Tau running all Kroot or something stupid. If he had, he'd know that Tau are the hard counter to AdMech, and there's little an AdMech player can do to come out on top. The more likely case, as pointed out, is that he is hoping that by talking it up, he'll get you to do something stupid and make some horrible mistake in the game (being new) that allows him to capitalize on it and turn the table. It seriously sounds like he's trying to play the psych meta-game on you, but you really have little to worry about.

That being said, I believe you mentioned this is a 2v2 game? That is your real threat, depending on what his ally brings. If his opponent brings something difficult for Tau to deal with, and you're focusing on the AdMech because you're terrified of them, it could allow his ally to deal with you.

All of Vector Strike's suggestions are pretty good ways to deal with AdMech.

Well my friend is actually notorious for boasting of how he kicked everybody's ass, so I'm going to give him something to think about. It might not be fun for him, but it will show everybody else present that he can be beaten by one of us.

It's going to be free for all, and each of us can form alliances on the spot, either through trying to have a common enemy (which is what I may try) or through threatening to wipe them out if they don't play lackey (what my friend might try). I'll try to hit him fast and hard, if only to make the rest of the game more enjoyable for everybody else.

jy2 wrote:There are some good advice here. Unfortunately, the most important thing here is not the lists, but rather, the experiences of the generals involved. Here you've got a seasoned tournament player against a newbie who's just starting to play the new Tau. Now I don't know what your prior experience is with the previous Tau, but I'd expect you to get walloped a few times before you know how to play against his list. Tau actually has all the tools to be a problematic matchup for Admech. The only thing is how well do you know to use those tools? That is where experience comes in and unless you are a 40K prodigy, everyone will have to pay their dues, which in this case will probably be getting schooled by a more experienced player. But don't worry, the more you play, the more the tide will turn against him.

He underestimates us, which is something I have going for me. He doesn't expect me to know exactly what to target, and he doesn't expect me to know how to optimise my army. Heck, he even ordered me an extra Riptide and told me to throw it in, at no extra point cost because, as he said, "It won't matter past turn one."

He sounds like a real piece of work. Please beat him, it'll knock him down a peg, or twenty.

I hope you wipe the floor with him!

That's why I came to you: to get the ideal army list, and to develop an action plan that could account for any little tricks he might have planned.

I had a lot of fun against all skitarri with my ghostkeel, s7 ap4 hurts a lot. Between doubling lots of things out and being ap they wrecked. Mine was part of an OSC to get ignores cover and an extra BS. I think they'd do well without the formation though too

 jy2 wrote:
There are some good advice here. Unfortunately, the most important thing here is not the lists, but rather, the experiences of the generals involved. Here you've got a seasoned tournament player against a newbie who's just starting to play the new Tau. Now I don't know what your prior experience is with the previous Tau, but I'd expect you to get walloped a few times before you know how to play against his list. Tau actually has all the tools to be a problematic matchup for Admech. The only thing is how well do you know to use those tools? That is where experience comes in and unless you are a 40K prodigy, everyone will have to pay their dues, which in this case will probably be getting schooled by a more experienced player. But don't worry, the more you play, the more the tide will turn against him.

This right here is a great post, underrated advice. I would say that you are just as likely to get countered in-game by drawing crappy objective cards for Maelstrom, as you are to get a bad army matchup (think DE vs. Nids, heavily in favor of DE almost at all times). The ability to think on your feet and adjust your strategy on a turn by turn basis to score those objective points whilst controlling the battlefield is what equals a win, not just simply trying to massacre your opponent off the table. The new tricks Tau has with running and shooting, deep strike, and more jetpack units allows Tau to be fairly mobile. Like I said in my previous posts, Sicarian units and Ironstriders/Dragoons are great for objectives because they are so fast.

May your maelstrom card deck give you good draws, and your dice rolls be somewhat statistical you xeno scum.

Just to quickly throw this in here.... company of the great wolf gives the cheapest drop pod tax servitors are like 10 pts each! :O

Lionheart713 wrote:

Well my friend is actually notorious for boasting of how he kicked everybody's ass,

In the famous words of Tywin Lannister: "Any man who must say, 'I am the king' is no true king."

Don't pay any attention to him and enjoy the game, it'll be a lot better for you as a whole. Most people who brag about their tournament wins or whatever aren't particularly good players, as those who are don't have to boast about their own nonsense, because after all, the best way to become a great player is to play a lot and try out a lot of things, both of which mean you will lose a lot. I remember when asked a top tier pro-tournament player for MtG said that the best way to go pro is to lose enough that you no longer care when you lose, as you'll be less on tilt, want to play more, and you'll learn more.

I am currently working on an ad-mech army. I just played a game using a friend's ad-mech army to try them out, and I like them. The war convocation while good, is not broken like many think. The war convocation requires the ad-mech player to take only one unit of models for units you really want to spam in return for the free gear. And your army is practically tailored to counter ad-mech. just keep your distance and pew pew them seems to work fairly well. I only have one tau player in my local meta and he isn't a total d-bag so I don't mind losing to him. I just wanted an army with an IH/cyborg esq feel that could handle my local meta a bit better and would be fun to play. And I didn't want to be that guy and start a eldar army and run 3+ WK like the other 2 eldar players in my local meta who have to win and verbally abuse you as they do.

I agree with the others at this point.

While I still believe the point of the game is to have fun, and specifically trying to ruin someone's game tends to make you "that guy", it really sounds like this dude has it coming.

Who the hell gives their opponent a free Riptide saying "it won't matter"? That's just saying "you're so terrible and I'm so good that you can have tons of extra points and it won't help you".

The free-for-all scenario makes things kinda interesting. If he's as much of a dick as it sounds, I suspect you won't have any trouble getting people to help you wipe him out fast.

Of course, then you'll get to hear about how he totally took on three armies at once and still lasted longer than anyone else would have...

Janwin wrote:
I agree with the others at this point.

While I still believe the point of the game is to have fun, and specifically trying to ruin someone's game tends to make you "that guy", it really sounds like this dude has it coming.

Who the hell gives their opponent a free Riptide saying "it won't matter"? That's just saying "you're so terrible and I'm so good that you can have tons of extra points and it won't help you".

The free-for-all scenario makes things kinda interesting. If he's as much of a dick as it sounds, I suspect you won't have any trouble getting people to help you wipe him out fast.

Of course, then you'll get to hear about how he totally took on three armies at once and still lasted longer than anyone else would have...

26 hours left until we are deploying our units. I have already made one solid alliance, and got one "screw you, I'm going crazy on EVERYBODY!" response. So thinks should be fun as allegiances are uncertain.

 NorseSig wrote:
I am currently working on an ad-mech army. I just played a game using a friend's ad-mech army to try them out, and I like them. The war convocation while good, is not broken like many think. The war convocation requires the ad-mech player to take only one unit of models for units you really want to spam in return for the free gear.

Right, I don't think some people have thought about how limiting this is.

"Man, I really want an Icarus Dunecrawler for AA and a Neutron Laser one for AV. Too bad I have to stick them in the same squadron."

Most people go with solo-Onagers for AA, squaded for non-AA.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Most people go with solo-Onagers for AA, squaded for non-AA.

SJ

I personally don't worry about flying too much in my local meta. There are 3 players who ever take full fledged flyers in my local meta. The guy who has just about every army minus IK, Ad-mech/skitarii, and necrons, the blood angels player, and the necrons player. So far I have not had much trouble snap shooting what they bring down or just ignoring what they bring. So I usually go for non-aa. Too many other threats in my local meta for me to dedicate a unit to anti-aa with that local meta. Especially when only 1 of the players has been bringing fliers lately. Stormravens aren't very scary compared to what other armies bring.

On a side note, if you know what he is going to bring and roughly how many of each unit he is bringing it shouldn't be too tough to make a list tailored to tearing his apart.

If he is smart he will be bringing destroyers for his troops (probably with grav) and a robot maniple (with the phosphor cannons). He could be bringing either ballistarii or dragoons. he may lean towards the dragoons for their melee ability which is something tau lacks. keep in mind the Sicarian infiltrators have infiltrate and stealth. The imperial knight warden seems to be a popular choice for this formation.

But honestly, take what you know about the player into account and what he likes to play and favor. That should give you a better Idea of what he will play and how he will play it. And keep in mind to play to the type of game you are playing. If it revolves around objectives and securing them build your list with that in mind.

Janwin wrote:

Who the hell gives their opponent a free Riptide saying "it won't matter"? That's just saying "you're so terrible and I'm so good that you can have tons of extra points and it won't help you".

Or just like "You only won because I gave you 200+ points". It's probably just an insurance policy D:

You can't beat these people, they're just too slippery. Really the way to beat them best is to just ignore them.

 Tinkrr wrote:

Janwin wrote:

Who the hell gives their opponent a free Riptide saying "it won't matter"? That's just saying "you're so terrible and I'm so good that you can have tons of extra points and it won't help you".

Or just like "You only won because I gave you 200+ points". It's probably just an insurance policy D:

You can't beat these people, they're just too slippery. Really the way to beat them best is to just ignore them.

I agree with you I think. I assume you mean he is just giving himself an out if he loses. I would ignore him and not take him up on his offer of a free riptide. That way he can't claim it was because of the free riptide that he won. I would be careful of anyone saying this though. They may be playing mind games with you. In my local meta there is a player here who wins with less competitive lists because of how good he is at playing mind games with people.

 NorseSig wrote:

 Tinkrr wrote:

Janwin wrote:

Who the hell gives their opponent a free Riptide saying "it won't matter"? That's just saying "you're so terrible and I'm so good that you can have tons of extra points and it won't help you".

Or just like "You only won because I gave you 200+ points". It's probably just an insurance policy D:

You can't beat these people, they're just too slippery. Really the way to beat them best is to just ignore them.

I agree with you I think. I assume you mean he is just giving himself an out if he loses. I would ignore him and not take him up on his offer of a free riptide. That way he can't claim it was because of the free riptide that he won. I would be careful of anyone saying this though. They may be playing mind games with you. In my local meta there is a player here who wins with less competitive lists because of how good he is at playing mind games with people.

Yup, basically that. He can just say "Oh, grats, you beat me with an extra 200pts+ and in a free for all game, good for you." So it's just better to enjoy the game for what it is than make it about someone who is too full of hot air.

No true high level tournament player has the attitude of this guy the thread OP describes. It's much closer to the profile of someone who isn't that good that can simply talk his way out of any loss thanks to such offers and more.

Yup, basically that. He can just say "Oh, grats, you beat me with an extra 200pts+ and in a free for all game, good for you." So it's just better to enjoy the game for what it is than make it about someone who is too full of hot air.

No true high level tournament player has the attitude of this guy the thread OP describes. It's much closer to the profile of someone who isn't that good that can simply talk his way out of any loss thanks to such offers and more.

From what I have read I am inclined to agree with you, but I like to leave the ground open for "that one guy" who is top level and doesn't at all act like it. Though I think in this situation it is a guy who has overestimated the power of the war convocation and thinks that combined with his little bit of tournament experience he will mop the floor with anyone with said formation. I think going against tau will open his eyes a bit to the weaknesses of the war convocation. I know it did mine. I knew I was probably gonna get stomped by tau I just didn't realize how badly. But then some of it could have been my inexperience in the game and ad mech and the fact this guy has been playing tau and 40k for a very long time and is a good player. I love getting stomped by good players. I learn more that way. Especially when said good player will go back after the game and show me where I made mistakes and what I should have or could have done instead.