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Hi guys,

So this post is designed to address the topic of the best way to field autocannons as a Guard player.

Most people seem to agree that autocannons are great weapons for Guard due to their range, cheapness, versatility and multiple shots. In sufficient numbers, they can damage pretty much any unit other than really hardcore vehicles.

I performed several searches before I started this thread, and I saw a lot of discussion on sub-issues, e.g. "is it worth taking a Leman Russ Exterminator" or "is it worth taking heavy weapon squads with autocannons". The thing is that each method of bringing autocannons has an obvious drawback, so I'm not really sure whether there is a consensus as to what the overall *best* way to use them is.

(1) Taking them in infantry squads is the cheapest method and gives them ablative wounds, but it forces them to fire at the same target as the rest of the unit, which potentially wastes all of that lasgun fire.

(2) Putting them in heavy weapon squads gives them more flexibility but also makes them very easy to kill.

(3) Putting them on Exterminators preserves flexibility and gives them protection, but this is very expensive relative to the amount of actual damage done and they can be taken out by anti-tank weapons.

(4) Sentinels... ha... ha...

All things considered, I am swaying towards option (1) because you will often be taking cover behind an Aegis line or comparable scenery and playing defensively anyway, and having the autocannons there enables you to take pot shots at a distance while you await their advance.

I am leaving Hydras out of this poll as they are obviously very specialised.

I put two on my Armoured sentinels... why? Well what else would I put on them?

Also I limit them to two, then my opponent is more tempted to fire at my heavy bolter team, reducing the point loss of them getting knocked out.

However point wise, I think the Exterminator is the most cost effective way to field autocannons and protect them (the rest are too squishy). Sentinals are okay, but with only two hull points? mehhh although 3 sentianls with autocannons is only 5 points more....

*sigh* I dunno anymore, this thread has given me an autocannon identity crisis.

Heavy weapons squads are well known for being fragile and expensive.
Every loss is an autocanon.
I think it is the worst.

I actually like Exterminators. They have a better version of the stock Autocannon (2 more shots and twin-linked). Makes for a winning combination with their high armor. Of course they'll be shot at, every time I play my Guard my Russes always take tons of fire.

 War Kitten wrote:
I actually like Exterminators. They have a better version of the stock Autocannon (2 more shots and twin-linked). Makes for a winning combination with their high armor. Of course they'll be shot at, every time I play my Guard my Russes always take tons of fire.

What would you say is better.

130 point exterminator with it's special AC and a stock hull heavy bolter, or 3 AC armed Armoured Sentinels for 135 points?

This poll is missing the best varient..... Chimeras

 Baldeagle91 wrote:

 War Kitten wrote:
I actually like Exterminators. They have a better version of the stock Autocannon (2 more shots and twin-linked). Makes for a winning combination with their high armor. Of course they'll be shot at, every time I play my Guard my Russes always take tons of fire.

What would you say is better.

130 point exterminator with it's special AC and a stock hull heavy bolter, or 3 AC armed Armoured Sentinels for 135 points?

Considering Armored Sentinels die to a stiff breeze.... Exterminator, at least in my opinion

Sentinels do have the advantage that people tend to ignore them. In many cases, armies that would fire at av 12 are using the same weapons they would have used against av 14...so, they perform their function as a harassing/distraction unit well enough. As with everything in the game, it's about target saturation. Sentinels work well when used in conjunction with lots of other armor.

Infantry Squads are a fairly high cost per autocannon, with no durability, low accuracy, and poor morale.

Platoon:

PCS w/Autocannon [40 pts]
INF Squad w/Autocannon [60 pts]
INF Squad w/Autocannon [60 pts]
INF Squad w/Autocannon [60 pts]
INF Squad w/Autocannon [60 pts]
INF Squad w/Autocannon [60 pts]

290 points for 12 Autocannon shots, 6 of which will hit.

Exterminator w/Exterminator Autocannon [130 pts]

That's 4x Twin-Linked Bs3 Autocannon Shots, on an Av14/13/10 chassis, no morale issues, and easier to get cover for fully (and easier to fire all guns at the same target). For 260 points, you can get 8 shots. The remaining 30 points can net you a Lascannon and Dozer Blade per LREx. Much better, IMO.

Three Scout Sentinels with ACs can outflank and potentially be taking side or rear armor shots. They can also harass units that might not be equipped for dealing with assaulting walkers. However, I think the easiest way to get ACs into your list is to take Infantry Squads. Orders make them far more useful than simply taking their points cost into account would have you believe.

 Selym wrote:
Infantry Squads are a fairly high cost per autocannon, with no durability, low accuracy, and poor morale.

Platoon:

PCS w/Autocannon [40 pts]
INF Squad w/Autocannon [60 pts]
INF Squad w/Autocannon [60 pts]
INF Squad w/Autocannon [60 pts]
INF Squad w/Autocannon [60 pts]
INF Squad w/Autocannon [60 pts]

290 points for 12 Autocannon shots, 6 of which will hit.

Exterminator w/Exterminator Autocannon [130 pts]

That's 4x Twin-Linked Bs3 Autocannon Shots, on an Av14/13/10 chassis, no morale issues, and easier to get cover for fully (and easier to fire all guns at the same target). For 260 points, you can get 8 shots. The remaining 30 points can net you a Lascannon and Dozer Blade per LREx. Much better, IMO.

I would argue that this is a bit of an apples vs oranges comparison as you will be taking guardsmen anyway, not just because you want to access autocannons, and they bring a lot of anti-infantry capability and *some* melee capability in addition to those autocannon shots. Even if you are taking them purely for the autocannons, if you put them in a combined squad your opponent will have to get through 40 guys before he can touch the big guns.

I take the point about not wanting to waste shots with the autocannon/ lasgun combo, but I wouldn't have thought that tactical problem would arise often. Your infantry squads will probably be sitting back rather than slogging across the table to get chewed up, so most of the time, either (1) the lasguns will either be out of range to do anything anyway, or (2) you will be firing the autocannons at infantry along with the lasguns, which is a good use for them anyway.

I would also take some more serious anti-tank weapons on other platforms anyway (e.g. vendettas or meltavets), which would help if I really needed to pop that transport so that my infantry could shoot the survivors.

Play chaos space marines. Use Havocs. Put 4 in a squad of 5 men. Total cost is 115pts. Its also cheap on the wallet. Buy 5 marines and glue an IG autocannon on them. I replaced an arm for the cannon. Heck you can flue it on as a head.

Exterminator is better than a squad of havocs with 4 ac. for 15 more points you also get a hb and better armor and ignore ld checks.

Scout Sentinels with outflank and go for the rear armor shots. Exterminators for everything else.

I will agree with another poster. The best autocannon platform is chimera's using the forgeworld rules. Otherwise autocannons are not terrible on infantry squads as they stay fairly cheap. Overall autocannons are pretty poor in the IG army. IG just don't have a lot of anti MC/GMC and autocannon's purpose tends to be filled with the lascannons and plasma (usually with the monster hunter order) that you need to deal with T8 multi wound models.

Now in the Renegades and Heretics army lists autocannons are actually really good. This is a combination of cheaper platforms, low BS, and the Tzeentch BS2 snap fire.

Yes ! renegades are awesome permanently going to ground and shooting at full BS2! At evertthing! (damn you invisibility)

Another thing to keep in mind is what slots these units take up and compete with. Obviously platoon infantry squads have the most access as a pcs and 5 infantry squads could take autocannons per platoon in 1 troop choice. But also look at the fast attack slot as vendettas and hellhounds occupy this slot. In the heavy slot you have wyverns which is pretty much mandatory as its about our best unit right now, hydras, manticores, death strikes, and other russes(not many are better though).

So personally I believe it depends on your list and what you have included in your list and what you want to run.

konst80hummel wrote:
Scout Sentinels with outflank and go for the rear armor shots. Exterminators for everything else.

The thought occurs that, for 360 points, I could take 9 of these and outflank with the lot of them... thoughts, guys?

 Krusha wrote:

konst80hummel wrote:
Scout Sentinels with outflank and go for the rear armor shots. Exterminators for everything else.

The thought occurs that, for 360 points, I could take 9 of these and outflank with the lot of them... thoughts, guys?

I'd run 6 and save a FA slot for a Vendetta

I actually don't run any, oddly enough.

My weight of fire is supplied by Paskisher, and my infantry blob. The blob tends to take four Lascannons instead, which I've found to be far more effective against many more targets.

I'd never considered Sentinels viable delivery systems for autocannons - given their paper mache survival level.

9 for 360 on an outflank is not terrible, and given the whole HP system for vehicles now, I can't really argue that maybe two Russes might make for a better investment. Although, two Exterminators CAN put the hurt on most things without fear of being scrapped with return fire.

For those that DO run Sentinels, what level of success do you generally see?

 Frankenberry wrote:


For those that DO run Sentinels, what level of success do you generally see?

A couple Armoured Sentinels (AV12) in units of one with HFs are cheap and pretty good at keeping deep striking units honest when dropping into your back lines. The deep strikers have to think about both the S5 template and the possibility of being tarpitted. It's not foolproof, but it's pretty cheap insurance against some armies.

Occasionally, I'll run a unit of three Armoured Sentinels with lascannons amd HK upgrades. It always draws a lot of fire and every so often does something spectacular

the_scotsman wrote:
I actually don't run any, oddly enough.

Not that odd, I don't run them in any of my lists either. They're pretty useless weapons imo. Terrible at killing marines, terrible at killing MC's, terrible at killing anything with an AV higher than 12.

It seems like they exist solely to glance out AV12- and Daemon MC's, which are too things I don't really struggle to get rid of.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
I actually don't run any, oddly enough.

Not that odd, I don't run them in any of my lists either. They're pretty useless weapons imo. Terrible at killing marines, terrible at killing MC's, terrible at killing anything with an AV higher than 12.

It seems like they exist solely to glance out AV12- and Daemon MC's, which are too things I don't really struggle to get rid of.

I'm fairly new to Guard but I was under the impression (based on what I read) that autocannons were not outstanding against any particular type of unit (other than perhaps light transports) but they could damage most units (other than AV14 vehicles), they had good range and they were spammably cheap. I know from games I've played with my Orks that taking those cheeky pot shots with cheap weapons that don't seem amazing can really help grind down seemingly tough units, even if you have to throw ridiculous dice into it.

It does seem that Guard players' opinions are more divided on what to take!

Yah, they're fairly polarizing in the Guard community- a lot of IG players swear by them since they're so cheap and fairly high damage, as you've pointed out.

 Krusha wrote:

 Selym wrote:
Infantry Squads are a fairly high cost per autocannon, with no durability, low accuracy, and poor morale.

Platoon:

PCS w/Autocannon [40 pts]
INF Squad w/Autocannon [60 pts]
INF Squad w/Autocannon [60 pts]
INF Squad w/Autocannon [60 pts]
INF Squad w/Autocannon [60 pts]
INF Squad w/Autocannon [60 pts]

290 points for 12 Autocannon shots, 6 of which will hit.

Exterminator w/Exterminator Autocannon [130 pts]


That's 4x Twin-Linked Bs3 Autocannon Shots, on an Av14/13/10 chassis, no morale issues, and easier to get cover for fully (and easier to fire all guns at the same target). For 260 points, you can get 8 shots. The remaining 30 points can net you a Lascannon and Dozer Blade per LREx. Much better, IMO.

I would argue that this is a bit of an apples vs oranges comparison as you will be taking guardsmen anyway, not just because you want to access autocannons, and they bring a lot of anti-infantry capability and *some* melee capability in addition to those autocannon shots. Even if you are taking them purely for the autocannons, if you put them in a combined squad your opponent will have to get through 40 guys before he can touch the big guns.

I take the point about not wanting to waste shots with the autocannon/ lasgun combo, but I wouldn't have thought that tactical problem would arise often. Your infantry squads will probably be sitting back rather than slogging across the table to get chewed up, so most of the time, either (1) the lasguns will either be out of range to do anything anyway, or (2) you will be firing the autocannons at infantry along with the lasguns, which is a good use for them anyway.

I would also take some more serious anti-tank weapons on other platforms anyway (e.g. vendettas or meltavets), which would help if I really needed to pop that transport so that my infantry could shoot the survivors.

I disagree, i dont have any gaurdsmen, but with vets there ok at bs4. And chimeras and turox are also a cheep buy, but LR is defiantly most durable and biggest bang for your buck.

 stonned_astartes wrote:

I disagree, i dont have any gaurdsmen, but with vets there ok at bs4. And chimeras and turox are also a cheep buy, but LR is defiantly most durable and biggest bang for your buck.

Well yeah. I guess if you are going all mechanised with vets then taking Guardsmen just for autocannons is not worth it.

Οn the subject of Sentinels...
Keep them cheap... Scout ones with an AC. A squad of 3 or 2 Squads of 2 w/Hunter Killers and AC. Use them to bully and distract. Every shot not on your core force that is wasted on them is a victory for them. They can cripple something on the turn they arrive and then be generally obnoxious.
Hope that helped...