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http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/PDF/Datasheets/LeviathanSiegeDreadnoughtRules.pdf

Debatably, this thing is more destructive than a land raider and has the ability to enter CC albeit less armoured. He does come with a 4+ Invul save and can get Armoured cermite which boosts his survival chances. He can take a drop pod...

I can see two builds for this guy

Close combat tank/MC/Character destroyer or rifle man infantry killer.

Any other thoughts or ideas on this new dread?

Thought: Looks super dope.

I like the idea of it. Its basically a better ironclad dreadnought.

It sure looks nice.

For its game mechanics, it's powerful, but expensive. It's power per point ratio is actually a little underwhelming though; meaning it's more points than it's worth, even though it has large numbers.

So it's basically run of the mill for Forge World. Looks nice, has big numbers, costs too many points. Makes you wonder why people have some issue with FW being used.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
It sure looks nice.

For its game mechanics, it's powerful, but expensive. It's power per point ratio is actually a little underwhelming though; meaning it's more points than it's worth, even though it has large numbers.

So it's basically run of the mill for Forge World. Looks nice, has big numbers, costs too many points. Makes you wonder why people have some issue with FW being used.

I have to admit, 270 points for a bigger refrigerator that does what the little one can do is a little eccentric, but I think its more of a defensive dread then anything else

Seems balanced for what it does, I personally wouldn't run one because I don't like having that many points tied up in a model that can be one shotted

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Seems balanced for what it does, I personally wouldn't run one because I don't like having that many points tied up in a model that can be one shotted

Imagine if it had the Enhanced Ferromantic Rites rule. Mmm, I can hear the butthurt already

It is kinda hard to one-shot outside D-Weapons to be fair. A 4++ and immunity to Melta goes a long way, especially when you can buy a Drop Pod for them and get the most out of MTC.

That said, I have two primary issues with it, especially given the cost to field it:
1. Lack of Chapter Tactics. It doesn't get access to Legacies and stuff, and Dreadnoughts got a lot better thanks to getting Chapter Tactics and:
2. Four base attacks. The fact that replacing an arm lowers the number of attacks is simply bad. It should have the 4 regular Dreadnoughts have and, if anything, have one more. It's almost 300 points and they're supposed to be insane and whatnot.

As an Ork player who pays 290 for a morkanaught with just a 5++ vs shooting , no weapon options , and one useless special rule (consussive) ...

I'd say it's pretty darn good and would trade my naught for it any day.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
It is kinda hard to one-shot outside D-Weapons to be fair. A 4++ and immunity to Melta goes a long way, especially when you can buy a Drop Pod for them and get the most out of MTC.

That said, I have two primary issues with it, especially given the cost to field it:
1. Lack of Chapter Tactics. It doesn't get access to Legacies and stuff, and Dreadnoughts got a lot better thanks to getting Chapter Tactics and:
2. Four base attacks. The fact that replacing an arm lowers the number of attacks is simply bad. It should have the 4 regular Dreadnoughts have and, if anything, have one more. It's almost 300 points and they're supposed to be insane and whatnot.

5 S10 Ap2 attacks that can cause more wounds on the charge at I5 is dope. Its going to murder whatever it touches in 1-2 turns


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
As an Ork player who pays 290 for a morkanaught with just a 5++ vs shooting , no weapon options , and one useless special rule (consussive) ...

I'd say it's pretty darn good and would trade my naught for it any day.

You get the mega dreads though, both cheaper and better than the derpanaught

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
5 S10 Ap2 attacks that can cause more wounds on the charge at I5 is dope. Its going to murder whatever it touches in 1-2 turns

Just remember that those extra wounds apply to the model, not to the unit. You're only getting any benefit from the rule against units that don't suffer instant death from STR 10, you don't get to kill one MEQ model and then kill D3 more. So, like all dreads, it's still very vulnerable to tarpit units.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
5 S10 Ap2 attacks that can cause more wounds on the charge at I5 is dope. Its going to murder whatever it touches in 1-2 turns

Just remember that those extra wounds apply to the model, not to the unit. You're only getting any benefit from the rule against units that don't suffer instant death from STR 10, you don't get to kill one MEQ model and then kill D3 more. So, like all dreads, it's still very vulnerable to tarpit units.

Who can reliably tarpit this guy though, besides orks? The Leviathon should be going after big targets, but has some infantry butchering equipment if need be

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
As an Ork player who pays 290 for a morkanaught with just a 5++ vs shooting , no weapon options , and one useless special rule (consussive) ...

I'd say it's pretty darn good and would trade my naught for it any day.

Morkanaughts have Stomp.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
5 S10 Ap2 attacks that can cause more wounds on the charge at I5 is dope. Its going to murder whatever it touches in 1-2 turns

Just remember that those extra wounds apply to the model, not to the unit. You're only getting any benefit from the rule against units that don't suffer instant death from STR 10, you don't get to kill one MEQ model and then kill D3 more. So, like all dreads, it's still very vulnerable to tarpit units.

It could do some damage against GCs like the Wraithknight
I5 on the charge (meaning its hitting first) 2 HoW hits at S8 and S10 AP2 Normally, Meaning a high chance of wounds dealt and severing cut will boost that
the 2 in-built meltaguns and 3 HK missliles it can take can do some damage to the WK as well
I will have to playtest to see what it can do against a WK as well as other stuff (Primarchs ECT)

commander dante wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
5 S10 Ap2 attacks that can cause more wounds on the charge at I5 is dope. Its going to murder whatever it touches in 1-2 turns

Just remember that those extra wounds apply to the model, not to the unit. You're only getting any benefit from the rule against units that don't suffer instant death from STR 10, you don't get to kill one MEQ model and then kill D3 more. So, like all dreads, it's still very vulnerable to tarpit units.

It could do some damage against GCs like the Wraithknight
I5 on the charge (meaning its hitting first) 2 HoW hits at S8 and S10 AP2 Normally, Meaning a high chance of wounds dealt and severing cut will boost that
the 2 in-built meltaguns and 3 HK missliles it can take can do some damage to the WK as well
I will have to playtest to see what it can do against a WK as well as other stuff (Primarchs ECT)

Ill play my tau friend with it. He plays his riptide like its invincible and the Leviathan would like to prove otherwise

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

commander dante wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
5 S10 Ap2 attacks that can cause more wounds on the charge at I5 is dope. Its going to murder whatever it touches in 1-2 turns

Just remember that those extra wounds apply to the model, not to the unit. You're only getting any benefit from the rule against units that don't suffer instant death from STR 10, you don't get to kill one MEQ model and then kill D3 more. So, like all dreads, it's still very vulnerable to tarpit units.

It could do some damage against GCs like the Wraithknight
I5 on the charge (meaning its hitting first) 2 HoW hits at S8 and S10 AP2 Normally, Meaning a high chance of wounds dealt and severing cut will boost that
the 2 in-built meltaguns and 3 HK missliles it can take can do some damage to the WK as well
I will have to playtest to see what it can do against a WK as well as other stuff (Primarchs ECT)

Ill play my tau friend with it. He plays his riptide like its invincible and the Leviathan would like to prove otherwise

What you should do is find a small(ish) sized hulk toy and make up rules for it, then duke it out with the leviathan so it will become the Hulk vs the Hulkbuster

I'd use it in games that are too friendly for my Knight. Same concept as a Crusader, but less of it. I'm actually looking forward to it.

commander dante wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

commander dante wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
5 S10 Ap2 attacks that can cause more wounds on the charge at I5 is dope. Its going to murder whatever it touches in 1-2 turns

Just remember that those extra wounds apply to the model, not to the unit. You're only getting any benefit from the rule against units that don't suffer instant death from STR 10, you don't get to kill one MEQ model and then kill D3 more. So, like all dreads, it's still very vulnerable to tarpit units.

It could do some damage against GCs like the Wraithknight
I5 on the charge (meaning its hitting first) 2 HoW hits at S8 and S10 AP2 Normally, Meaning a high chance of wounds dealt and severing cut will boost that
the 2 in-built meltaguns and 3 HK missliles it can take can do some damage to the WK as well
I will have to playtest to see what it can do against a WK as well as other stuff (Primarchs ECT)

Ill play my tau friend with it. He plays his riptide like its invincible and the Leviathan would like to prove otherwise

What you should do is find a small(ish) sized hulk toy and make up rules for it, then duke it out with the leviathan so it will become the Hulk vs the Hulkbuster

So paint a Thanatar Castellax green and the siege dreadnaught red?

It's sooooo expensive for armor 13. 300pts means it should be armor 14 in the front minimum. Remember one grav roll of 6 that gets through the 4++ and it's a flailing pillbox so throw me a bone with armor 14 at least.

That being said its storm Cannon is awesome. Anything armor 12 or less is dead at 24". The severing cut rule is designed to scare the piss out of Wraithknights. WS 5 and the 4++ are designed to survive combat against WK's and a severing cut averages 3 total wounds (1 for the initial wound and 2 more on average for the cut).

Isn't the cut also designed to get around Eternal Warrior? That can be beneficial against Shield Eternal toting chapter masters. With armor 13 on the front and sides though I think this thing was created to counter Eldar Jetbike spam with a Wraithknight backup armies. At least it has great potential against that type of list.

Huh, I wonder how many wounds it actually causes charging a Wraithknight. I'll have to Mathhammer that later, but there's the issue of actually catching the Wraithknight, as heaven forbid such a large object be slow.

well 5 (4 on the charge if you take a gun, which i owuld personally) attacks is 2-3 hits which is basically 2-3 wounds, T8 does nothing here for the wraithknight and on average a d3 will for each of those rolls will double your dmg output so we're looking at 4-6 wounds on the charge.

If you get unlucky you might only do 1 wound but you'll be just as likely to kill the thing in a turn

The leviathan will kill pretty much most things it gets it's hands on, the only problem is can it get it's hands on it

Just remember that it can still be buffed by blessings!

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Dakkafang Dreggrim wrote:
As an Ork player who pays 290 for a morkanaught with just a 5++ vs shooting , no weapon options , and one useless special rule (consussive) ...

I'd say it's pretty darn good and would trade my naught for it any day.

Morkanaughts have Stomp.

Off Topic: No they don't. They aren't a SHW, just a normal Walker (for some stupid reason).

On Topic: The Leviathan is certainly cool, but as stated earlier a bit overcosted. Honestly I see more people running it with dual Storm Cannons than with a fist or two in 30k, and I doubt people will take it at all in normal 40k.

It's cool looking and would be fun for an Iron Warriors or Iron Hands army.

GAdvance wrote:
well 5 (4 on the charge if you take a gun, which i owuld personally) attacks is 2-3 hits which is basically 2-3 wounds, T8 does nothing here for the wraithknight and on average a d3 will for each of those rolls will double your dmg output so we're looking at 4-6 wounds on the charge.

If you get unlucky you might only do 1 wound but you'll be just as likely to kill the thing in a turn

The leviathan will kill pretty much most things it gets it's hands on, the only problem is can it get it's hands on it

Indeed. Punchy Dreads have been around for a while and aren't that great because they're too slow.
BA players take the Furioso, but for the Frag Cannon rather than any combat ability. Space Wolf players take Thunderwolves over the Axe/Shield Dread. Everyone runs Contemptors with a Gun. The Ironclad is mostly forgotten about.

I take a normal Dreadnought with my BT army, but only because he uses a drop pod, and will be supported by a fully advancing army...

So, I tried out it's rules in an apocalypse game, but it wasn't a great test as it kept popping tanks with it's meltas before even getting into combat. It was very survivable though - that 4++ is amazing. Almost made it to the end of the game, before getting missiled to death.

It must be good then!

Ehh, this was an apocalypse game with unlimited points. In normal games, I think it's a bit over-priced.

Personally, I've got one on order with a claw, drill, 2 storm cannons and a grav-flux so I can use magnets.
That's only so I can swap as needed.

I play 30k mainly and alot of friends play against me with 40k armies, which is interesting as I play alot of nids.
So severing cut will be somewhat useful.

Though 2 storm cannons is a ton of fire from a stable platform.

The phosphex dischargers are a nice addition though to remove potential close threats.



About 40-50 points too much IMO.
But I'll still use it as it has potential and love the model.

It's very points heavy, but its hard to kill. I've run it twice now, neither time did get killed. Against tau it's great because they really struggle with it. Outside of longstrike or emp grenades, all they can really do is hull point it, and that often leaves them hoping for 6's due to all the S7 shooting. It took a hit to the rear from longstrike and shrugged it off on a 4+. With that said, the return on investment has never been very high with it, even in a pod. It's the same old story, rolling low for charges and constantly having to choose between shooting or getting a charge off IE you don't want to wipe out the thing you intend to charge with shooting.