Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I just watched a MWG video where Matt talked about a Tank possibly tank shocking a Stormsurge, causing it to die because the Stormsurge cannot ever move (If it fires its weapons?) and if it does or is forced to, it is removed as a casualty?

I may not have the correct wording, but that is the jist of it.

Am I missing something here though, can the Stormsurge not just DoG and auto Str D ap 1 anything that tries that while equip with the Pulseblast Cannon?

Wrong section, bud, but I'm pretty sure Gargantuan Creatures are immune to remove from play effects, taking 1D3 wounds instead.

Depends on if this comes into play:

UNSTOPPABLE
Any attack that normally inflicts Instant Death or says that the target model is removed from play inflicts
D3 Wounds on a Gargantuan Creature or Flying Gargantuan Creature instead.

So, does the tank shock cause it to be removed from play? If so then it would suffer D3 wounds instead.

But the argument could be made that it isn't the tank shock that caused it to be removed but the fact that it was forced to move and couldn't (so the tank shock only indirectly caused this to happen)

Really, the only difficult part to resolve is where to move the tank to after the Stormsurge takes it's 1d3 wounds.

Actually I think what happens is....that when the tank shock happens it forces the model to move out of the way (which it can't) so the CRUNCH part of tank shock comes into effect and the model is removed from play. At this point the UNSTOPPABLE rule comes into effect and causes d3 wounds instead.

Thats HIWPI and I think thats RAW but someone might take another stance.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
HIWPI the tank stops right infront of the stormsurge, there seems like there is no rule saying where the tank goes if it hits a gargantuan creature that won't move.

Well technically I was thinking that because the model CANT move does it constantly take said D3 wounds because it has to be forced to move away at least 1" from other models?

You are forced to move 1" > Cannot > Take D3
You are still forced to move 1" > Cannot > Take D3
You are still forced to move 1" > Cannot > Take D3

Repeat or is that just a dummy move in believing that the model still needs to adhere to the rules of being 1" away from other models unless locked in CC.

Technically...you place the tank ontop of the stormsurge? That might work (wobbly model syndrome for sure)


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Actually - its possibly the 1" rule overrides the vehicles ability to go into the stormsurges position so it has to stop 1" away from the stormsurge

 GoliothOnline wrote:
Well technically I was thinking that because the model CANT move does it constantly take said D3 wounds because it has to be forced to move away at least 1" from other models?

You are forced to move 1" > Cannot > Take D3
You are still forced to move 1" > Cannot > Take D3
You are still forced to move 1" > Cannot > Take D3

Repeat or is that just a dummy move in believing that the model still needs to adhere to the rules of being 1" away from other models unless locked in CC.

No. that infinite cycle is not the case.
It would take 1D3 wound and then the vehicle would stop 1" in front of it.

notredameguy10 wrote:
...and then the vehicle would stop 1" in front of it.

This would be reasonable (although I would probably just stop the tank in contact), but not actually RAW. The rules simply don't cover what to do in this situation.

 insaniak wrote:

notredameguy10 wrote:
...and then the vehicle would stop 1" in front of it.

This would be reasonable (although I would probably just stop the tank in contact), but not actually RAW. The rules simply don't cover what to do in this situation.

I agree. This is a situation where it can't even really be debated because there is nothing that indicates what to do. Its not like there is unclear wording or something.

And the reason for stopping 1" away and not in be contact would be that the tank would then be in close combat against the GC and get killed in the following assault phase.

I don't see a problem with it getting whalloped next turn. It's how it works if you ram a walker and don't kill it.

Only way the Stormsurge would take more than 1D3 wounds is if he fails a DoG attack, 1D3 for the failed DoG and another for being unable to move. It says nothing about if the model is still there after the Crunch effect, and nothing in this game is repeating itself in effect (cannot reroll a reroll for instance).

Stopping 1" away from the Surge would make sense for the vehicle's final position to me, though i see no RAW way for it to go. It wouldnt infinitely take damage though because of what i said earlier.
Considering Walkers have a rule where if the vehicle failed to kill them via Ram they are automatically engaged for the following assault, im surprised GMC doesnt have this by default since obviously they cant die in one squish. If the D3 wounds doesnt kill the GMC, then auto combat. I could see that being for any GMC not just the surge.

So.... the most effective way to kill a StormSurge is to spam Ork Trukks....

There are a few circumstances involved that must be met for the crunch effect:
1) the tank shock has to end with the tank on the storm surge.
2) the ss can attempt a dog: if it fails it is rfp, which becomes d3 wounds.
So you can get 2d3wounds via failed dog and ending on the ss.

If the ss does not attempt a dog, and the shocking tank does not end on the ss: no crunch, no wounds.

Little things like this is why I never watch mwg vids: they always get at least 1 rule wrong by forgetting associated rules or simply not understanding all the rules involved. Then there is an influx of posters asking for verification or people using the "well mwg says..." as validation for erroneous beliefs.

maceria wrote:
So.... the most effective way to kill a StormSurge is to spam Ork Trukks....

The Gladius Razorparkinglot just found its tactic to use v. StormSurge.

I think you can always move the storm surge you just don't get two shoot twice if you do move.

Or am I misremembering it?

No I see what you're getting at.

Only allowed to move in their movement phase. Should work.

Big base though it's probably hard to clear that area.

Im gonna try and do it with Grot Tanks
Lets see if a bunch of AV10 2HP vehicles can smash up a GC!

maceria wrote:
So.... the most effective way to kill a StormSurge is to spam Ork Trukks....

a unit of buggies might be just as effective.

mhalko1 wrote:

maceria wrote:
So.... the most effective way to kill a StormSurge is to spam Ork Trukks....

a unit of buggies might be just as effective.

Buggies can't tank shock. and can't be up graded to allow them to tank shock.

GMC follow MC rules unless overrides, can it not make a death and glory to stop the tank shock? It's str is usually high enough if it can.

Can the Stormsurge utilize its Pulse Driver Cannon in its DoG attack?

Since its a blast, do we bother to scatter it? Or does the scatter not happen because it's listed as (Within the DoG USR) as hitting automatically, and if it does, does it hit the Stormsurge as well since it's on it's front armor and inevitably MUST be under the blast template since it's in Base Contact with the Stormsurge.

You bypass the hit process, so the blast marker isn't used. You just resolve a single automatic hit using the weapon's S and AP.

 GoliothOnline wrote:
Can the Stormsurge utilize its Pulse Driver Cannon in its DoG attack?

Since its a blast, do we bother to scatter it? Or does the scatter not happen because it's listed as (Within the DoG USR) as hitting automatically, and if it does, does it hit the Stormsurge as well since it's on it's front armor and inevitably MUST be under the blast template since it's in Base Contact with the Stormsurge.

Since you only get a single auto hit against the vehicle, it would be better to just use the Stormsurge's Smash for the S10 AP2 hit.

Question, if you are going to be Tank Shocked by a squadron of tanks and they could each hit individually, could you DoG each of the tanks?

 Nilok wrote:

 GoliothOnline wrote:
Can the Stormsurge utilize its Pulse Driver Cannon in its DoG attack?

Since its a blast, do we bother to scatter it? Or does the scatter not happen because it's listed as (Within the DoG USR) as hitting automatically, and if it does, does it hit the Stormsurge as well since it's on it's front armor and inevitably MUST be under the blast template since it's in Base Contact with the Stormsurge.

Since you only get a single auto hit against the vehicle, it would be better to just use the Stormsurge's Smash for the S10 AP2 hit.

Question, if you are going to be Tank Shocked by a squadron of tanks and they could each hit individually, could you DoG each of the tanks?

Nothing seems to indicate that a model can't DoG multiple times a turn.

If you get tank shocked and say the tank would land so that it is equidistant to all "exits out from under the tank" (as to not debate shortest distance stuff).

Say in this scenario, your able to move. The base for the surge is very large...

How far would you move out of the way? just far enough to get out from under the tank?

Yes, same as you would do for any other tank shock. Shortest distance to end 1" away.

 Big Mac wrote:
GMC follow MC rules unless overrides, can it not make a death and glory to stop the tank shock? It's str is usually high enough if it can.

Thats walkers youre thinking of, not MCs. Walkers are assumed to be too lumbering to be able to punch a speeding vehicle before it squishes them, but if they dont get blown by it they basically latch on and start beating the snot out of it in the assault phase.

Multiple tank shocks is something that never really happens but nothing says he can only DoG once, however NORMALLY if he fails he dies so it doesnt matter. The Surge can DoG every time.

Stormsurge isnt locked in position for the entire game once he deploys, however he can only raise his anchors in the movement phase. So hes still stuck there.

Also, spam trukks? youre facing tau....our entire army can pen the hell out of trukks at 30+ lol. If a trukk reaches a surge the tau player is either really dumb or had insanely bad dice.