Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I have been I using the same army list for my sm for 5-6yrs now is that a bad thing only thing I have add sense then is a flyer. I keep getting told sm are great now but how so what am I missing

Um...have you kept up to date at all with the new codices that have been released for SM? Even if you don't get the cheesiest units in the dex like Grav Centurions you would notice the marked difference in playstyle from the changes from Chapter Tactics being tied to Special Characters in 5th ed. to detachments in 7th right? Have you noticed any of the formations? Especially with the recent Kauyon campaign, there's a lot of new stuff that make them a lot more flexible regarding their mobility and playstyle.

Um, you might want to pick up the new book and some of the new units. They're too good to pass up

Yes I have I just don't see all them differences people talk about to me it all the same

You're doing THE HOBBY totally wrong. You're supposed to continually chase the idea of a perfect OP army by buying all the latest units that have been updated or FAQed to be better than the other units you have already purchased that have been made obsolete. Leaving you with a closet full of un-painted minis, an empty wallet, and a GW manager that treats you like a king (when in earshot).

The most successful player in my local club, who regularly plays national level tournaments and places in the top quarter of players, runs a list with no 6th Ed plus models.

He runs Space Marines with Rhinos, Dreadnoughts, Thunderfires, Bikers, and a couple special characters in a CAD and there is nobody he can't take on.

The only recent SM unit that is actually "too good to pass up" (not actually true IMO but that's the hype) is the grav cannon centurion. Assault centurions and both new anti-air units are garbage, both flyers are average at best, and everything else is a re box of an old kit.

If you have bikes, drop pods, and dreads you're in good shape. Alternatively if you had one of those "ALL THE RAZORBACKS" fifth ed books you can run Gladius, which is also amazing.

What do you have?

Like I love to get a box of centrions but I don't want to run them the way you have to as grav guns. That part of my problem with new stuff I don't know how to run it our I got to use it a way I don't like.
Here is what I normal use
Caption jamp pack light claw and shield internal
Chapiln jamp pack power maul

3 tac squads 10 men 2rhinos flamers and in on 2 squads.
3 squad has melts gun combo melts on sarge and multi Mult and in pod

Iron clad dread 2flamers and 2 fist in pod
Deard with misssils and las cannon
5Stern guard combie melts pod

2 storm tallon skyhammer missiles
1O man assault squad with one flamer sarg got power sword


2 5 man dev squads one all missiles out he las cannon




Automatically Appended Next Post:
That basically ever thing a few different heavy weapons guys 10tac termys

So... You can either run a cad, or a Demi company (you may actually have enough for a full Gladius formation?)

Basically, your other option is you can run a Demi-company (which is 3 tactical squads, Assault squad, Dread, Captain, and Devastator squad) and then add a CAD to that (2 more troops and your Chaplin as HQ) and you get the benefits of the Demi company (which is IIRC Objective Secured on all those models) and you get the freedom of a CAD you can run all the rest of your stuff in.

I think that's the easiest thing for you to do to get the most out of your guys. That way, if you take a fancy to any of the other formations, you can add them in, and if you just want to add units to a CAD you also have that. And the Demi is pretty easy to remember the benefits.

That's a 2000 pt army how is that going to fit in a formtion and a cad




Automatically Appended Next Post:
I don't have a nuff stuff to run the dimie company as don't got the stuff for auxiliary formations I needbca

I had been playing Chaos Space marine since the 4th ed book. (The one right after the glorious 3.5 ed)

Even when I upgraded to 5 IK, its no good for professional tournament and is still too hardcore for casual, so I have to play the gimped CSM so people can win and feel good about themselves.

So are tac armies dead ? Is it better to play a gimmick style army now days like all bike army our all tanks etc like rhinos for all my tac squads

TAC armies aren't quite dead yet, they're just weaker now than they used to be. Being jacks-of all trades means that while you can do most things reasonably well if your opponent focuses solely on one aspect (such as vehicles) you may struggle.

Yeah, playing the same army for years is a bad thing.

When a new codex comes out for YOUR army, you need to reevaluate all your lists, and probably make some big changes to your army. (Probably.)

Even when a new book comes out you DON'T play with, you need to at least LOOK at it to see how it's going to affect your army, or the 40k meta as a whole. Then adjust your lists if it's needed.

That the problem am having I don't know how to adjusts army k

Look at the models you own. Then look at the formations that are in the codex. I would recommend building towards a Gladius Strike Force. You probably already have the models for a demi-company formation, the core formation of the Gladius, which gives everyone objective secured and a use of doctrines. From there look at some of the auxiliary formations that appeal to you.

It's not really that it's more like I don't get what models are good here list of that
Grav centuries how are they good all I see is a very expansive unit that's does what really.
Librarians like they aren't any good because you can't pick powers
Stern guard I love them so I use a 5 man squad butt there just a very expansive suicide unit that will be focused down asap.
Ven. Dread like all my does is show flamers some troops then ever gun my opponent has just shoots it done
Grav bikes/meltas don't get them ether

Like I don't see what ever one sees in them units




Automatically Appended Next Post:
The auxiliary formation non seem to be good

You don't need aux formations. You need minimum one core formation that's it-that's the Demi company.

Grav cents crush anything with a 3+ save or better. In fact they will crush anything that has a 4+ or better. Their job is to murder everything at range. Throw in libby for added fun. Sternguard are actually a decent firefighting unit with their specialist ammunition. Librarians, honestly are one of the best HQ's marine have, not getting to choose their powers is an old gripe, but with psychic focus you can usually get at least one of the powers you want. Bikes are great because of their speed, they can apply their firepower where it's needed quickly

Ya but to me a Libby just there to die to me I can't see how there any good same with grav guns big deal they can kill marines I need stuff for the big ugly mc that what ml and lascanon for

You do realize that grav wounds on armor saves right? That big MC will find himself splattered by grav cannons that re-roll to wound. Throw in a Librarian with the Divination discipline and suddenly they can probably re-roll to hit too. Do that math for a second if you will. 3 Centurions pump out 5 Grav shots each at BS4. With re-rolls to hit the vast majority will be hitting. Assume your fighting a Canifex, it'll be 3's to wound, with re-rolls thanks to grav-amps. That is one dead Carnifex. Heck, that'll pulp most MC's and even scare wraithknights. Hope that advice helps.

That's 11.9 saves needed by the Fex.

 SlaveToDorkness wrote:
That's 11.9 saves needed by the Fex.

Thanks, I'm terrible at mathhammer. Did I mention that those approx. 12 saves ignore the fex's armor completely? Unless the target has a dang good invuln they're going to be mauled

Ok that helps a lot with my grav gun because I read it codex go o cool gun and this is a good gun how. it like my brain can't make that jump on how that good. Like back to Libby o get devotion like what there good I can't see how any that's helpfull like ever freak out over invasbale am like so you just can't see them big deal like I can't make that step to how that broken at all

I did this with my ravenwing army at 2000 points. I didn't change the list. Just figured what the new point total was. I had to add to my standard list. I always make a list and mostly use it. I do change from time to time just to try other lists. But my lists are always fluffy.

The main cool thing about divination is the re-rolls to hit with the primaris power. In my Devastator Centurion example re-rolls to hit are powerful, and having 3 T5 W2 2+ save guys around him means the Libby is as safe there as anywhere else. Other cool powers in that discipline include ignores cover (perfect timing), re-rolls to hit AND to wound (precognition). It's one of the best psychic tables for SM librarians, and it's the preferred one (at least from what I've seen) amongst SM players.

No offense to the OP, but please try to make an effort to write grammatically correct sentences, commas and all. It's very hard for me to follow what you're saying given how broken and jumbled your line of thought seems to be. Also, given your recent replies I would suggest seriously looking over the core rules again for yourself since you seem to be missing out on the key stuff that's quite literally laid out for you in the rules.

As War Kitten already covered, Librarians are the go-to support HQ in most marine armies, and a great force multiplier, particularly in the Librarius Conclave formation in the main SM codex.

I'm not the most competitive player but unless your going full chapter master smash, your taking a librarian. He bring so must at his point costs especially at ML 2. if you pick one table that's three powers and on the two most competitive tables Divination and Telepathy, there are no bad powers. That's not even getting into the conclave that pushed him from great to cheese especially when combined with other units.

I can't make that jump to how Librarians are any good.
So let say I get power that let's me 're-rool hits big deal how is that helpful. I can't see what others see with librarians. Psyhick shirk like a see people say is great like I don't see it

newguy1984 wrote:
I can't make that jump to how Librarians are any good.
So let say I get power that let's me 're-rool hits big deal how is that helpful. I can't see what others see with librarians. Psyhick shirk like a see people say is great like I don't see it

How is make all attacks (melee and shooting) from a unit reroll to hit not helpful?
How is dealing wounds to a target that ignore its toughness, armor, and cover not helpful?

If you can't see how something as simple as re-rolls are helpful I don't really see how any advice can help you at all.