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Hey guys!

I wanna hear your arguments for both fluff and Tabletop (minis and rules!) To which of the Emprahs finest you guys think is best! I'm also wanting to start a new omnibus so based on said results I may pick it up tomorrow!.cheers!!

Wolves ignore most of their codex in favor of TWC. Blood Angels are forced to take the boring and bad in the normal vanilla to get to take their stuff. Dante beats Grimnar, TWC beats Death Company, Beasts are better than Jump Packs, Blood Angel Melta is scarier in a Drop Pod than a Dreadnought with an Axe. I prefer Blood Angels but the Wolves have those couple of better things in the current Edition that mean they are the better overall army.

Fluffwise, no contest. The angsty angel can get old but never as old as Wolf Wolf Claw Fang that is everything a Space Wolf says. If they toned it down, it could have been a great source of fluff but even just writing an army list is painfully monotonous. Blood Angels are a bit too blood happy, but it can be taken as a more literal religious symbol than the wine and bread from church, so it does add something to their relationship with their Primarch. It's the only 40k Chapter that I thought the Primarch still matters in.

I prefer Blood Angels, honestly (Shocking I know..).

Their fluff is excellent in my opinion (Now that they've gotten away from the abomination that is the 5th edition codex). Though there are a few McGuffins I don't like, such as the Sanguinor, and Astorath. I'll clarify that I don't *mind* Astorath, just saw his addition as superfluous when we already had a named chaplain in the form of Lemartes.

The Death Company are an excellent threat unit in my opinion, and few armies do the drop pod assault style list better with lots of bodies hitting the table danger-close and unleashing melta-hell on your opponent. That said, until we get an update, we are very much behind the curve on the power level front. Still, the fluff and the visual appeal of the army are second to none in my view.

Just my thoughts/opinion on that. I love me some space wolves too, for sure, but as Sharkoutofwata said, their current 'wolf claw wolf fang wolf wolf wolf-ity-wolfinstein McMurderfang-face with his murderclaws of murderfication' is a touch over the top. And that's coming from a Blood Angels player with 'Bloody Blood Talons of Blood'.

Also, in closing: The Blood Angels Primarch is WAAAAY cooler than the Space Wolves Primarch. ( )

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Cheers dude. That was a really really great response! Exactly what I was looking for .

The army that I'd start wouldn't be based on a 'current' power level, so I'd rather have an army that I loved the read the background on. Plus, with my current army being necrons, a more melee orientated Blood angels my suit me better .

My biggest problem is I think I'm a llittle bit more like russ myself with being ignorant and egotistical


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Also, which army, would you guys say is the 'furthest' from the standard vanilla marine dex?

Oh Space Wolves by far. They look at the codex Astartes and give it the biggest middle finger ever, outside of Black Templars.

Blood Angels are a codex Astartes adherent chapter, but they have enough other stuff to field some different lists.

It'll really boil down to what kind of army you like the look of. Both of them are striking on the tabletop, though the Blood Angels are a little more-so because of all the Red, which is a very attention getting color.

Of the two armies, both are fairly strong in melee. Blood Angels are stronger if they get the charge, where-as Space Wolves don't care if they charge or get charged thanks to Counter-Attack. So your mileage may vary some. It'll depend on how aggressive you want to play, as BA tend to require pressing the fight more than SW, which can afford to stand and shoot then receive the charge (which is stronger in the current edition).

Hopefully that helps ya out some. Best of luck, and take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Space Wolves with their Supplement. Blood Angels are vanilla with additional units, but Wolves don't even have Tactical Squads. They have packs of Grey Hunters, their initiates are packs of Blood Claws who get their armor immediately, their Ancients are Long Fangs instead of Devestators being Step 2 in the training process of a Tactical Marine. There is very little that matches up with the Codex from the Wolves, fluffwise or gameplay-wise. Most units in Space Wolves is 'vanilla +1'.

Thing is, with my main army already being necrons, I'm already standing back and firing so to speak. So maybe space wolves may be too similar.. even though they're the furthest away from normal marines (I don't like vanilla marines :@)...wraiths are like TWC.. ect ect.

So on one hand I like that blood angels are very melee eccentric, but on the other I like wolves for their lore, and that they're more of a frozen wasteland kind of thing. THEN. Sanguinius come back to mind. It's like a game of table tennis! :(!


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@Sharkoutofwata, didn't you say that most of the army forgoes it's other units in favour of TWC though?. Again, I get some units maybe stronger, but as long as I can read stories and enjoy them... BJORN!!!, and they're far away enough from vanilla marines I'm happy .

Do wolves play similarly to necrons? :/

TWC is just one way to play them. Even in the normal codex, a Grey Hunter squad is Tacticals+1, Wolf Guard is Vanguard Veterans+1, Long Fangs are Devestators+1. All of those units exist almost exactly in Blood Angel codex from the Space Marine codex without paying a bit of a premium. Sanguinary Guard and Death Company are good examples. And I've played against a fair few standard codex Wolves and they have some pretty impressive tricks for a fun game.

I collect Necrons (though am still in the building and testing phase) and my friend has Wolves getting going, and I will admit they're both pretty similar in the sense of a single unit being alone and reckless (TWC/Wraiths) and the rest will get there when they get there. They mirror each other well enough that you can see the similarities.

But my Blood Angels are always moving, always grabbing Objectives as a whole army or striking together to make up for the limp Assault rules in the current edition. Very 'tip of the spear' gameplay that can crumble if I move at the wrong time.

I'll echo SharkoutofWata in this as well. Blood Angels require a much more active mindset, and to think two to three turns in advance no matter what you're doing. BA hit hard, but can be blunted before they get there unless you use some tricks (leadership manipulation being an example) to help ensure your assault isn't thwarted in the preceding shooting phase. This is especially true against fire-power emphasis armies such as Eldar, Tau, etc.

Blood Angels are (at least, currently in this edition) a very tricky army, and are very very unforgiving of a mistake on the general's part. I enjoy that challenge personally, but it can lead to a frustratingly steep learning curve, especially against the more recent codex releases since the latest Necron codex dropped.

That's all I've got to add for now. Hopefully the insight helped. Take it easy for now.

-Red__Thirst-

Space wolves all the way. I find the number of people who complain about the naming issue a joke. Yes, in any quality army book it wouldn't exist. But we all know that GW is incapable of quality writing. Besides, its actually better than it has been in the past. Believe it or not the number of "wolf" items have gone down. Also at least when lightning claws got changed to wolf claws the item changed a bit. Unlike the blood angel dreadnaught dccw which got renamed blood fist for no reason.

I also really prefers the astetics of the sw army better. The wolf pack box is stuffed with all manor of bits and grubbins and iconography. I rather dig all of the runes and pelts myself.

The fliers are also nice and fairly straightforward in what they do. Most will agree that they function as intended and don't suffer from trying to do two things and doing neither well. Sw air force can be pretty effective.

On that front, you don't have to play twc spam to have a good army. Their supplement codex gave a lot of life to terminal actors and wolfguard. Their characters are for the most part fun to use and colorful to say the least. Because of the nature of the grey hunter, they can do drop pod spam pretty well. And since just like ba they have to ally in normal SM to get the really good toys, your not missing out on any of those options either.

I always liked the idea of space Vikings so it'll be Russ's Wolves for my vote. Troops can hold their own in CC, TWC hit like a Mack truck and you can build powerful CC Wolf Lords and field lots of HQ options as well.

Thankyou for all the fantastic replies!

@Sharkoutofwata, with you saying that you are building necrons aswell, would you still say that you could collect wolves and have a fun time?

Only in the sense of going crazy with it. I've been seriously considering a Thunderdome list for a while, but strictly wolves, I'd be more into the painting than playing them. Painted one up and it was pretty enjoyable, so every squad would have to be crazy on the upgrades for me to enjoy it. They have that option, so there is plenty of potential to make them as wildly different as you like, which is something I wouldn't be able to do with Necrons.

The reason I love my crons is that they're so unique. In terms of weaponry, units and look! (Btw I'm not the guy who spams a decurion).

I feel like I'd like wolves more... simply for their lore. Sanquinius is cool and that... but I think I'd like the feel of the feral vikings more. The thing that would stop me is the feeling of playing the same army with a different skin.

It's a tough choice.
I prefer BA but would also play a 13th company.

I personally got tired of the "vikings badass" placeholder faction in pretty much every setting now. Its just such a common theme for a group of people that I find it entirely uninteresting. Space Wolves are no exception.

I dont really like the Blood Angels all that much either, but I outright dislike Space Wolves.

On the tabletop though I only know what I hear and from what I hear Space Wolves beat the gak out of the Blood Angels.

Again though, tibs ironblood, this army is going to be completely based off of novels I read, and aesthetics of an army. I do like the idea of space wolves... but I know reading novels will change my mind easily!

Have to give my preference towards Blood Angels.

Table top wise, SW are better than BA, but fluffwise I prefer the spess vampires as opposed to spess vikings.

Maybe it's because Sanguinius is a badass. Maybe it's maybelline

What makes blood angels back story/fluff so much better?

Read over the first six or so paragraphs of this link:

http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Blood_Angels

Through "The Final Confrontation" section. Of course the entire thing is worth the read in my opinion, but this will let you see the character of the Primarch Sanguinius, and appreciate the fact that he actually had character, and was respected by all who knew him.

Hopefully that helps somewhat. It's Sanguinius and what he represents that makes me love the Blood Angels. The duality of a pure nobility, and rage-fueled madness, and the struggle between these two diametrically opposed things within each and every member of the chapter.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Well for me what makes Blood Angels better are their flawed traits in the red thirst and black rage. It adds character to them as it sets them apart from others. They have beautiful models and in the lore are known to make their armor and weapons as finely crafted (aesthetically) as possible. Their Primarch was the great and much loved brother and son who made the ultimate sacrifice.

They are built up to be the dedicated and pure space marines, but are so horribly genetically flawed that they are doomed to fall in battle or to madness. They really are the Angels of the 40k universe.


That and with Blood Angels I find it hard to imagine people would take issue with you choosing to play standard Codex marines over the blood angels codex so really going Blood Angels unlocks two armies for you.

Meanwhile the Space Wolves are Wolf here, wolf there, and ride giant wolves with a bunch of mini wolves on them while the space wolves have mini wolves braided into their wolf shaped beards. Space Wolves are cool at a glance, but for me at least they are only really worth a glance. I did not find any real depth to them and the fact that their basis "Badass Vikings" is so widespread across countless fantasies/scifis makes them feel so bland.

In pure regards to the tabletop however I would say always play who you like. All it takes is one codex or big update for a previously gakky army to become top tier or go to the reverse. Play the long game.

Be like me and do both.

Rumor has it wolves are getting an update in February. So if you decide on wolves, you can wait a few months to see what that brings

I do Space Wolves, so this will be biased, but here goes:

SPACE WOLVES

Pros: Cool models, wolves, unique wargear, great conversion possibilities, nice weaponry (especially the frost weapons), OP Dreads, two of the most OP SM units (TWC and Lone Wolf) and probably THE best fluff.

Cons: Fur everywhere, WILL get annoying to paint. Many cool things from C:SM don't exist (LSS, Grav, Centurions)

BLOOD ANGELS

Pros: Cool models, their character models are beautiful, nice fluff, Death Company, can be a pretty fast army, has Predators with FLAMERS

Cons: Infantry costs more, red is annoying to paint


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Go with SW. They are Space Vikings, who can't get drunk, therefore they drink literal poision to get intoxicated. Also, they can become werewolves at any moment like wtf

I will never vote for Space Wolves in any kind of non-tabletop related poll. Their fluff is awful, and their rules are written by fanbois in every edition. Space Wolves can go die a fire.

Quality, non-insulting reply right there, I tell ya what...

How about you not actively insult something that, despite your opinion to the contrary, many people like and enjoy.

You give other BA players a bad name by acting like that, ya know?

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

 Red__Thirst wrote:
Quality, non-insulting reply right there, I tell ya what...

How about you not actively insult something that, despite your opinion to the contrary, many people like and enjoy.

You give other BA players a bad name by acting like that, ya know?

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

I'll never pass up a chance to insult the Space Puppies. They're awful, regardless of how many people like and enjoy them. And I admit, there is still a lot of bitterness from 5th ed. But that's why it's called bitterness. Go poll BA players that played 5th and see what the results are.

Please try to make any comments in threads like this more constructive and less flame-baity.

Thanks!

TT? Space Wolves take this hands down. Blood Angels haven't received a good codex since 5th edition.

Fluff-wise? Uhhh... I like both equally. While Space Wolves may have some very silly naming schemes and lore the core concept is pretty cool. Space Marines with a pop-culture viking theme to them. I wouldn't mind doing an army of them if I wasn't already doing my Ultramarines (And one day 40k Salamanders). Though I would probably try to tone down some of the dumbness. Maybe by running them as a Codex: SM army?

Blood Angels are also really cool. Close ranged fighters with a classy flair and a striking paint scheme? Awesome. Plus, Talys's Blood Angels projects alone are enough to sell me on the army.

I play both (or rather, I play heretical Space Wolves and Blood Angel successors).

If you want to win games, don't play Blood Angels. Just don't. Blood Angels are mostly vanilla marines but worse. They don't get any of the cool and effective stuff vanilla marines get, and the stuff they get in return for it can't make up for that. Blood Angels are probably the worst codex in the game right now (they perform the worst in tournaments)

Space Wolves also miss out on some of the best SM stuff, but their codex is unique enough that it does not matter all that much. Anything BA can do, SW can do better (well, except jumppack infantry). Thunderwolf cavalry (it is space Vikings riding wolves, what more could you want?) is one of the best units in the game.

Of course, there is much more to a choice than the effectiveness of codex. Aesthetics and fluff should always be the primary reason for choosing an army. SW and BA are very different in aesthetics. The BA have a very pretty, elegant, ornate design, whereas the SW have a barbarian look and awesome beards.
Fluffwise, both chapters are also very different. The SW are very unique, they are not like any other chapter. The BA are closer to a generic chapter, but have some interesting things going on such as the red thirst. The BA also have an interesting characters in Dante.

Modelwise, both are very well supported with unique units and bits, and have plenty of conversion possibilities. SW are the more unique faction of the two. BA are mostly vanilla SM units with some unique stuff thrown in.


Overall, unless you are a really dedicated Blood Angel fan, you'll probably get more fun out of playing Space Wolves. I would not go for BA unless you really prefer their aesthetics, fluff or playstyle over that of the SW.

TT the Space Wolves take it, while they're not a top tier back the SW book is stronger than the BA one.

Fluff I love them both equally. While the SW fluff can be a bit out there, it's still enjoyable (and who doesn't like Space Vikings besides Martel?). I also like the noble aspect of the BA. Despite their flawed nature they still do their best to do right by the little guy.

Model-wise it's also a tie for me. I love the angelic-aspect of the BA, and I also like the look of the SW line. I've played both of those armies at one point or another, so I love them both