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I am fairly new to the game and as I was looking at the Tyrranocyte's data sheet and when I was learning how to play I was shown to fire each weapon as if it was a hull weapon firing around the pod ad different units in LoS. After reading the rule:

"Instinctive Fire: Each weapon on this model automatically fires at the nearest enemy
unit within range and line of sight. The shots are resolved at the end of the Shooting
phase before Morale checks are taken. Each weapon can fire at a different target unit, but
they cannot be fired in any other way or at any other time."

Would the fact that it is a MC cause the five deathspitters to fire upon the closest unit?

RAW yes.
HWIPI, hull mounted

I would not play it as hull-mounted, as that would restrict the weapons' arc of sight to a mere 45º in front.

What I think the rule is trying to achieve is measuring the nearest unit within range and line of sight from each weapon, but of course a Monstrous Creature model doesn't restrict its own line of sight through itself, so if the nearest unit to all weapons is a single unit then there's nothing stopping you from firing all of them at that unit...

I'd play it as hull mounted just because it's a mindless beast and each gun symbiote is shooting at what it sees. And it's just more fun to drop it in a high risk spot and let it blast an ever widening hole around it. Watch Guard just crumple while the Screamer Killer inside chews on a tank.

As above is my RAI understanding.

The Sporocyst which has the same rules for the guns is stationary. Yeah it's still a MC but what ya gonna do?

It just doesn't seem right acting as a hull mounted weapon with the other dynamics of the MCs of the Nid army.

bigeg3000 wrote:
It just doesn't seem right acting as a hull mounted weapon with the other dynamics of the MCs of the Nid army.

Your are correct, it doesnt work properly since the rule is not clearly defined. If they intended the Tyrannocyte to just be a MC, then there is no need to include any type of rule other than listing the wargear of 5 deathspitters. However, since they made an attempt to define how the Tyrannocyte shoots with the Instinctive Fire rule, you have to look into the rule for RAI. They are attempting to treat each weapon like a vehicle would, so that is HIWPI. Just a big mindless pod shooting in all directions at anything it can see.

If they wanted it to be treated as a Hull-Mounted Weapon, they would have stated such.

Line of Sight for a non-Vehicle model can ignore models in the unit with their weapons.

All it means is if you have 2+ units and some are closer to one side and some are closer to the other side, the weapons multi-target based on that. That is all according to the quote above. Why make it more complicated?

Fragile wrote:

bigeg3000 wrote:
It just doesn't seem right acting as a hull mounted weapon with the other dynamics of the MCs of the Nid army.

Your are correct, it doesnt work properly since the rule is not clearly defined. If they intended the Tyrannocyte to just be a MC, then there is no need to include any type of rule other than listing the wargear of 5 deathspitters. However, since they made an attempt to define how the Tyrannocyte shoots with the Instinctive Fire rule, you have to look into the rule for RAI. They are attempting to treat each weapon like a vehicle would, so that is HIWPI. Just a big mindless pod shooting in all directions at anything it can see.

The mindless part I get the LoS portion is what tosses me for a tumble.

Fragile wrote:
RAW yes.
HWIPI, hull mounted

I think this makes the most sense. I mean, it can't fire through itself, physically. With other MCs, their 360 firing arc is represented by turning around, I suppose, but what would a cyte do? Spin like a top really fast while firing all its weapons? That's a little silly.

Playing it similar to a monolith makes the most sense, to me, even if that's not the strictest RAW ruling.

 Kap'n Krump wrote:
I think this makes the most sense. I mean, it can't fire through itself, physically. With other MCs, their 360 firing arc is represented by turning around, I suppose, but what would a cyte do? Spin like a top really fast while firing all its weapons? That's a little silly.

It's also silly to require the Lascannon Heavy Weapon Team to be firing at the same target as 7 Las Rifles just because they have a FRFSRF Order, but those ARE the rules.

Charistoph wrote:
If they wanted it to be treated as a Hull-Mounted Weapon, they would have stated such.

Line of Sight for a non-Vehicle model can ignore models in the unit with their weapons.

All it means is if you have 2+ units and some are closer to one side and some are closer to the other side, the weapons multi-target based on that. That is all according to the quote above. Why make it more complicated?

Your making it alot more complicated by combining rules.

Fragile wrote:

Charistoph wrote:
If they wanted it to be treated as a Hull-Mounted Weapon, they would have stated such.

Line of Sight for a non-Vehicle model can ignore models in the unit with their weapons.

All it means is if you have 2+ units and some are closer to one side and some are closer to the other side, the weapons multi-target based on that. That is all according to the quote above. Why make it more complicated?

Your making it alot more complicated by combining rules.

Combining which rules? The basic General Principles and the rule in question?

How is that more complicated that adding a rule never even partially referenced?

I was looking at it as the instinctive fire rule grants the ability to fire with 5 weapons, but you lose the ability to target wheat you really may want to target. I would think they would have either made it not a MC or specified it to behave like a hull weapon

bigeg3000 wrote:


The mindless part I get the LoS portion is what tosses me for a tumble.

To me that clears up the possibility of shutting down the ability of it to shoot because of the "closest unit" being possibly behind a Building with no LOS.

Or giving the creature the magic ability to shoot through LoS blocking terrain at its closest unit.

bigeg3000 wrote:
I was looking at it as the instinctive fire rule grants the ability to fire with 5 weapons, but you lose the ability to target wheat you really may want to target. I would think they would have either made it not a MC or specified it to behave like a hull weapon

You'd think that they'd have given more Dark Angel HQs the option for the Ravenwing Rule if they wanted them to be included in the Ravenwing Detachment. You'd Think they'd have given clear rules on auto-wounding Witchfires if they wanted them to be shot like a standard weapon. You'd think they'd have used the names of the Necron C'Tan units when they should have specified what C'Tan can be used in a certain Formation. But they didn't because GW is as far from perfect as there is when it comes to rules and you can't actually think that they have no fault in their writing. It is up to players to fix their foul ups.

bigeg3000 wrote:
I was looking at it as the instinctive fire rule grants the ability to fire with 5 weapons, but you lose the ability to target wheat you really may want to target. I would think they would have either made it not a MC or specified it to behave like a hull weapon

They did. In a designer's note in the white dwarf article when it was first revealed.

From White Dwarf 41, to give you an idea of the intent (because it's not strictly rules):

"When it comes to using them in the game, it couldn’t be easier: each of the guns on these models automatically fires at the nearest visible enemy model. This is as simple as measuring from the muzzle of each gun to the nearest enemy units and finding out which is closest. If it’s in range, just take the shot as normal."

Of course, they've forgotten that Monstrous Creatures do not block line of sight through themselves, so as Charistoph mentioned, this is only useful if you have enemy units which are similarly close to a weapon on either side, as otherwise most if not all of the weapons will be firing at the same closest target.

 Mr. Shine wrote:
From White Dwarf 41, to give you an idea of the intent (because it's not strictly rules):

"When it comes to using them in the game, it couldn’t be easier: each of the guns on these models automatically fires at the nearest visible enemy model. This is as simple as measuring from the muzzle of each gun to the nearest enemy units and finding out which is closest. If it’s in range, just take the shot as normal."

Of course, they've forgotten that Monstrous Creatures do not block line of sight through themselves, so as Charistoph mentioned, this is only useful if you have enemy units which are similarly close to a weapon on either side, as otherwise most if not all of the weapons will be firing at the same closest target.

I had just pulled up that article. So that in my mind clears this up as RAI.