Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi all, I was reading the new Chadian battle group which is in the mont'ka book. The restrictions there suggest that you can take only data slates that are listed there and you can't take unique models. My question is this; if I take a company command squad, can I take commisar? Also can I take minisitorum priest?

The Hammer of the Emperor detachment allows you to take precisely what's shown.

The company formations say that you can take a company command squad, there is no option for a commissar. You can only take commissars where that option is shown - battalion command squad, ogryn auxilia, etc.

There is no option for a priest.

Warning: wall of text inbound. Tl;dr: GW needs to actually explain this in a FAQ, but we all know that this won't happen.

The answer is probably "who the frak knows?"*

 Scott-S6 wrote:
The Hammer of the Emperor detachment allows you to take precisely what's shown.

I don't see "chimera" in the list of units allowed in, say, the Battle Group Command formation. However, would you allow the company command squad to take a chimera as a dedicated transport?**

The rules for a Company Command Squad says that they can take a chimera as a dedicated transport.

Let's call the command squad "Unit X" and the chimera "Model Y".

The rules for Unit X says that if you take Unit X, you can also take Model Y. The formation says that you can take Unit X. Can we take Model Y, even though the formation does not explicitly include Y in the list of permissible choices? Most players would say yes.

Now let's look at the commissar.

The commissar's rules say that you can take one if you take a command squad. Let's call the commissar "Model Y".

The rules for Model Y says that if you take Unit X, you can also take Model Y. The formation says that you can take Unit X. Can we take Model Y, even thought the formation does not explicitly include Y in the list of permissible choices?

The only difference here is which model has the rules. In one case, the command squad has the rules unlocking the extra model (the chimera). In the other, the commissar has the rules unlocking itself should you take the command squad. So, either:
- This difference is insignificant. In which case, for consistency, anyone that allows the chimera should also the commissar. Anyone that disallows the commissar should disallow the chimera.
- This difference is significant.

Let's go with 2. We're now in the position where the location of the rules make a difference. Is this reasonable? Would things be different if the rule allowing a command squad to take a chimera was moved from the Command Squad page to the Chimera page? Perhaps. I really don't know. Let's have a look at Pask and Creed - perhaps they'll clear things up.

See, the rule that tells you that you can replace a tank commander with Pask isn't found in the Tank Commander rules; it's found in the Pask rules. It's therefore in the same boat (tank?) as the commissar. Ditto for Creed.
The Battle Group Command explicitly allows you to take Pask/Creed, while both the Emperor's Shield and the Emperor's Fist formations are silent on the matter. I'm thinking that the RAI is that you can't take Pask/Creed in the Emperor's Shield/Fist formation, only in the Battle Group Command formation. Since their rules are the same as commissars, this suggests that commissars shouldn't be taken unless the formation explicitly mentions them.

Aside RE: Steel Host:


Thing is, we're supposed to be consistent in our interpretation of rules. This is complicated by GW's complete and utter incompetence when it comes to consistency in rules/FAQs.

*Maybe the GW writer. Maybe.
** This is actually a genuine question, not one of those rhetorical "gotcha" questions.

EDIT: Spelling. Minor rewording.

The simple answer is yes you can, because the model is unlocked to accompany them by their selection into your list and no restriction to the opposite is given by the rules of the formation. Just like Dedicated Transports, Space Marine Command Squads, and so on.

No.

Chimeras are ok because the unit entries specified allow a chimera(or taurox) within them selves.

The Commissar entry states you are allowed 1 per command squad(company or platoon), but that is an allowance in an entry that is not accessible in the formations(that allowance/requirement is also removed/bypassed in the formations that list the commissar entry)

In short: there is no allowance to even look at the commissar entry when making the formations.

Command squads(and Ork Meks) are in the same boat: only available to formations that specifically list them.

So, the location of the rules matter.

Dedicated transports listed in the command squad's entry (i.e. Chimera, Taurox) can be taken, but transports whose own entry mentions that they can be taken as the dedicated transports for the command squad (e.g. Aquila lander) can't be taken. Correct? Ditto for all the other Forge World dedicated transports (no taking FW land raiders as dedicated transports in SM formations).

RAW; Yes.

HIWPI: Maybe, keeping consistent. If a particular FW datasheet says something to the effect "can be taken by any unit that can take X" it should be ok(Example: Infernus Razorback in a Tac Squad from a Demicompany). These are replacement options for an option/required unit option within the formation.

Extraneous units that are unlocked via taking a certain unit and that "unlock" existing soley within that extraneous unit's entry(Commissars and Ork Meks, for example; Command squads do not need HQs for unlock now that I have double checked that).