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One thing that always irked me about the 6th Chaos Codex was just how *inflexible* the Daemonforged units were when they came out. It's probably a side effect of enjoying the mix-and-match nature of 4th edition unit loadouts, but the vehicles that were added were boring; it doesn't help that they were (Heldrake excepted) a weaker option overall.

A Heldrake could (and always does so) replace its Hades Autocannon with a Baleflamer.
A Maulerfiend could (and never does so) replace its Magma-Cutters with Lasher Tendrils.
A Forgefiend could (and almost never does) replace its Hades Autocannons with Ectoplasma Cannons. Oh, and it could take a mouth cannon if it *really* wanted to, because variety!

You compare this with the loadout options afforded a Riptide and ponder why they get the flexibility to mod their own units.

Assorted recommended tweaks include:
-Give the Daemonforged vehicles "Power of the Machine Spirit". Call it "Infernal Machine" or something like that. The Defiler becomes way better.
-Drop the Heldrake's cost by 55 points; make the Meteoric Descent a 20-point upgrade; add a mutually exclusive upgrade to allow it to be a Bomber instead. Replace the Baleflamer/Hades Autocannon with 25 point option to choose a Mawcannon mode of choice; the Baleflamer is 40 points or so. Allow it the option to take 2 Twin-Linked Reaper Autocannons or 2 Twin-Linked Lascannons for 20 points each. Make this vehicle able to represent the wide variety of Daemonic Flyers, from Hell Blades/Talons, to Blight Drones. Optionally, make the flyer 20 points cheaper on top of that, but AV 10, with the option to spend 20 points to buy itself back up to AV 11.
-Maulerfiends and Forgefiends are both Elites choices. Let the slot be used for something besides the occasional Termicide.
-The Maulerfiend is 100 points base. May take an additional Hades Autocannon or Ectoplasma Cannon for 25 points, or an additional Baleflamer for 40 points. Other potential upgrades of interest:
- Allowing it access to Hit and Run would be rather entertaining.
- Allowing it the ability to throw smaller vehicles after they're destroyed, akin to Knights.
- Allowing them to buy Mastery Levels, if they are Daemons of Tzeentch (for those that want to make Q'Salian Mirrorfiends).
-The Forgefiend is 150 points base. May replace its Hades Autocannons with Ectoplasma Cannons for free, or replace them with Baleflamers for 10 points. May take an additional Hades Autocannon or Ectoplasma Cannon for 25 points, or an additional Baleflamer for 40 points.
-Give the Defiler access to do D3-1 Stomp Attacks. Combine this with PoTMS, and it's...slightly less criminally overcosted and pointless.
-May spend extra points to have a Daemon Of upgrade.
-Allow the Daemonforged vehicles access to the Chaos Marine armory, as appropriate. Dozer Blades for a Heldrake are silly, but giving a Combi-Melta to a Maulerfiend may be a nasty surprise.
-Daemonforged Models within 12" of a Warpsmith (and are dedicated to the same god) may use his, WS, BS and Initiative.
-Optional: Allow a Warpsmith to be mounted on top of a Maulerfiend, counting it as a Walker Chariot.

 MagicJuggler wrote:


You compare this with the loadout options afforded a Riptide and ponder why they get the flexibility to mod their own units.

Assorted recommended tweaks include:
-Give the Daemonforged vehicles "Power of the Machine Spirit". Call it "Infernal Machine" or something like that. The Defiler becomes way better.

This should be how Deamonic Possesion works; just like PotMS and can ignore a shaken or stuned crew result on 2+, 20points in the wargear, allready on all the Deamon engines.

-Drop the Heldrake's cost by 55 points; make the Meteoric Descent a 20-point upgrade; add a mutually exclusive upgrade to allow it to be a Bomber instead. Replace the Baleflamer/Hades Autocannon with 25 point option to choose a Mawcannon mode of choice; the Baleflamer is 40 points or so. Allow it the option to take 2 Twin-Linked Reaper Autocannons or 2 Twin-Linked Lascannons for 20 points each. Make this vehicle able to represent the wide variety of Daemonic Flyers, from Hell Blades/Talons, to Blight Drones. Optionally, make the flyer 20 points cheaper on top of that, but AV 10, with the option to spend 20 points to buy itself back up to AV 11.

I'm not so sure about those...Meteoric descent should stay an inherent rule of the Drake, points doesn't need a 55pts drop, maybe a 10 or 15 and add an option to be a Deamon of X for +10pts, weapons variety is always nice, but since the Drake is at 160pts, the weapons optiosn costs should range from free for the Baleflamer or TL reaper AC to +15 for lascans, for the rest there is allready profiles and rules for Blight drones, Helblades/talons.

It also needs to have is firing arc set to 180*.

-Maulerfiends and Forgefiends are both Elites choices. Let the slot be used for something besides the occasional Termicide.

Agree

-The Maulerfiend is 100 points base. May take an additional Hades Autocannon or Ectoplasma Cannon for 25 points, or an additional Baleflamer for 40 points. Other potential upgrades of interest:
- Allowing it access to Hit and Run would be rather entertaining.
- Allowing it the ability to throw smaller vehicles after they're destroyed, akin to Knights.
- Allowing them to buy Mastery Levels, if they are Daemons of Tzeentch (for those that want to make Q'Salian Mirrorfiends).

Instead of hit and run, i'd rather have the ability to run+assault, also Front av 13, seeing how this thing front armor is much more heavier then a Soul Grinder or a Dread, it bafles me that a mauler is only AV12.

Also flayers should act has grenades, would be a good reason to take them.

The sent flying small vehicles might seem fun, but would be too much on a 100-130pts model, the only other models who can do that are 300pts+, maybe give him an extra HoW just like carnifexes, since when you look at it, its basically a Carni made out of metal, D3 Str 8 AP- HoW hits.

Not sure about MAstery lvls and what a Mirrorfiend is.

-Give the Defiler access to do D3-1 Stomp Attacks. Combine this with PoTMS, and it's...slightly less criminally overcosted and pointless.

When you say D3 -1 i think you mean with a -1 on the Stomp chart?, would make sens.

-Allow the Daemonforged vehicles access to the Chaos Marine armory, as appropriate. Dozer Blades for a Heldrake are silly, but giving a Combi-Melta to a Maulerfiend may be a nasty surprise.

Dirgecaster for everyone!!!!

-Daemonforged Models within 12" of a Warpsmith (and are dedicated to the same god) may use his, WS, BS and Initiative.
-Optional: Allow a Warpsmith to be mounted on top of a Maulerfiend, counting it as a Walker Chariot.

Could also be extended to Lords, since they are the Lords/WArpsmith property.

It's not even the Stunning that matters so much as the Split Fire, and the ability to "Shoot one unit, assault another". It would also make the Defiler less criminally overcosted, by simple economy of force.

I got a bit inclusive with the flyer options. Making it a more customizable Drake rather than "Giant generic flyer" is probably a simpler fix anyway.

Chaos doesn't have anything that can Hit and Run, unless you count Cypher, or The Masque. Granted, with Init 3, it won't be as reliable at breaking off as most Eldar or White Scars stuff

Throwing is amusing. Currently, it turns vehicles into explosives, but the idea of using wrecks to modify the flow of battlefield terrain has amusing implications. ("I throw this Rhino Wreck in front of your Devastators.") Given that it's only available to Knights nowadays, it may be much but seeing options for it at lower points would be cool too.

-1 on the stomp chart, yeah.

The Mirrorfiend is from Black Crusade: Tome of Fate. It's effectively a Fiend Engine that inflicts Telepathic psychic attacks.

Gotta give players *some* reason to take a Warpsmith rather than a Lord or a Sorcerer

SInce the Warpsmith is a sub par Lord with less options, it feels more like crammed in your throat to take it for the benefits of the Fiends.

WHile if you can take either of them or if the Warpsmith as more options it becomes more interesting.