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Flesh tearers detatchment

apothecary

5x scouts with bolters

9x drop pods

skitarii detatchment

10x skitarii warlord 3x plasma calivers omnispex, arkhans divinator.
10x skitarii 3x arc rifles omnispex
10x skitarii 3x arc rifles omnispex
10x skitarii 3x arc rifles omnispex
10x skitarii 3x arc rifles omnispex
10x skitarii 3x arc rifles omnispex
10x skitarii 2x arc rifles omnispex
10x skitarii 2x arc rifles omnispex

Imperial assassins

Culexus assassin

This is in no way my own original design, but I feel it has the tools to deal with any army out there. The best dark angels are going to get are 3+ rerollable cover because of omnispex. there are so many arc rifles and coming in from different angles you could probably kill 3 knights on the drop turn 1. anything with a toughness value is vulnerable to radium carbines with their 2 wounds on 6s wounding anything on a six, even wraithknights. And if you clustered all your pods as close as possible to prevent scatter, you could do something like 112 hits with the 2 pods with only 2 arc rifles each and 3 other pods just from radium carbines and BS 7 alone. thats 19 wounds x 2 each, 38 saves for thunderwolf calvary to make. The arc rifles would add in another 22 hits, and wound on 3s for another 14 wounds. Taking 3+ and FnP even with 4+ Fnp from psychic shenanigans, thats still 9 wounds, a hefty hit to your death star. You have a culexus to deal with really bad psychic problems who can drop in next to them and remove the buffs before your firepower wipes them out. And you have volume of shots for flyers, and even an arkhans divinator for a second shot at identifying objectives and more chance at skyfire nexuses.

Someone said TAC was absolutley dead, and while I agree its on life support, I wouuldnt say its completely dead. What would win against this more than 50 precent of the time, barring terrible luck, thus not making it TAC?

It doesn't seem like this list could kill even 1 riptide with the alpha strike.

eleven11 wrote:
It doesn't seem like this list could kill even 1 riptide with the alpha strike.

The riptide between 5 drop pods at BS 7 would take 49 wounds. thats 9 failed saves, and 3 FnP. He is pretty dead. And that dosent even take into account scouting the other 40 vanguard up if you dident want to pod everyone in.


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also the riptide would be last target priority. This would murder 2 stormsurges on the drop unless they had obscene interceptor. They probably wont fire the pie plates, because then they wouldnt anchor and get 2 the next turn. But even if they did, and managed to kill say 30, there are still 50 more. Would probably shoot up the rest of the army on the drop especially markerlights TBH.

6 Wraithknights?

I think it would easily beat 6 wraithknights over the course of the game. It certainly wouldnt lose every time. By turn 2, assuming the wraithknights killed like 30 of them, they still would have something more than 150 shots directed at them, and at least one of them would be dead from the previous turn.


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dont forget, you can use "our weapons are useless" on the wraithknights and even if your guys die, they can now be shot at again. Just save it for their end of turn.

 Orock wrote:

eleven11 wrote:
It doesn't seem like this list could kill even 1 riptide with the alpha strike.

The riptide between 5 drop pods at BS 7 would take 49 wounds. thats 9 failed saves, and 3 FnP. He is pretty dead. And that dosent even take into account scouting the other 40 vanguard up if you dident want to pod everyone in.


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also the riptide would be last target priority. This would murder 2 stormsurges on the drop unless they had obscene interceptor. They probably wont fire the pie plates, because then they wouldnt anchor and get 2 the next turn. But even if they did, and managed to kill say 30, there are still 50 more. Would probably shoot up the rest of the army on the drop especially markerlights TBH.

Your calculations are wrong. plus my interceptor will kill half your units before they fire leaving your attack gimped. I very seriously doubt you can kill even 1.

I was being nice to you and assuming they didn't have storm surges. Those would probably wipe out your force leaving only a handful to fire. Don't be deceived, you aren't going to see this list without interceptor.

A single wraithknight should be able to kill 10 skitarii ala close combat attacks and stomps in one go. The stomps especially because even without the 6 the 2-5 are S6 ap4 which completely ignore skitarii's armor and FNP. Even if they weren't completely wiped out they are just going to get sweeping advanced because the WK is I5 which will still happen if you Weapons are Useless (also do they not have grenades that gives them a S4 attack because their radium armor makes the WK T7 so would be hurtable from S4 attacks so you can't Weapons are Useless)?

So what would happen is you drop down 5 skitari squads, kill a WK and hurt another. the 5 remaining WK will kill all 5 skitarii squads, the remaining 3 squads show up and kill another WK and then the remaining 3-4 WKs kill the rest of the skitarii all done by turn 2.

they do not have grenades.

with 5 squads in pods, you are looking at each pods guys doing 6 wounds from hits with carbines, and another 2 to 3 wounds with the arc rifles. so say 8.5 wounds. To reliably kill a wraithknight you need 3 pods worth of guys to shoot one. thats 27 wounds, 9 failed saves, and 3 fnp. the other 2 pods would only manage 4 unsaved wounds. We can assume the eldar player played it smart and kept them clustered because there were no template attacks and to take maximum advantage out of the pods having to land close to kill. Assuming each one charges a unit on their turn after doing say 3 wounds on average from shooting, odds say one will miss his charge.

Now overwatch adds another 1 unsaved wound to each wraithknight. So all are down to 5 wounds, and one is down to 2. They wipe all their squads, and the ones that dont get wiped declare our weapons are useless, run and are chased down and die. Now you have 4 squads walking up the board, and a culexus. We can pretend only 2 wraiths are in range. At BS 6 they still both die, regardless if they had 5 wounds or 2 wounds.3 wraiths shoot back, killing a total of 8 or 9 guys. probably only mabye 2 in range to charge. Another wound each from overwatch. They wipe 2 more squads. The 2 squads kill another wraithknight. The 2 wraithknights kill 6 more and another squad. Turn 5 everything may or may not manage another wraithknight dead.

There are not many wraithknights left to do much. If there are objectives they cant afford to sit on them for points. You are giving up linebreaker and first blood, probably warlord because that one gets priority. You GET warlord, but you lose because your 4 dead GMC gave the other player 8 points from 3 wounds off each GMC. This did not even take into account the pods, marines, or culexus.

 Orock wrote:
they do not have grenades.

with 5 squads in pods, you are looking at each pods guys doing 6 wounds from hits with carbines, and another 2 to 3 wounds with the arc rifles. so say 8.5 wounds. To reliably kill a wraithknight you need 3 pods worth of guys to shoot one. thats 27 wounds, 9 failed saves, and 3 fnp. the other 2 pods would only manage 4 unsaved wounds. We can assume the eldar player played it smart and kept them clustered because there were no template attacks and to take maximum advantage out of the pods having to land close to kill. Assuming each one charges a unit on their turn after doing say 3 wounds on average from shooting, odds say one will miss his charge.

Well you math is wrong. The arc rifles only do like 0.889 wounds because they are wounding on 6s since WKs are T8 so each 10 man skitarii squad only does about 7 wounds before saves (and thats if the arc rifles were in rapid fire range). After 3+ and FNP each squads only does like 1.5 wounds meaning you need almost all 5 squads to kill a single WK.

Also the odds of a WK failing to charge a unit is very small. They move 12" with jump and have MTC and Fleet so the worse case scenario for them charge, considering the max range of your rad carbines is 18", is a 6" rerollable charge after the 12" move. However considering that you want to get all of your models in range or trying to get in rapid fire with the arc riffles you will probably be closer then 18" meaning thats its more likely a 4-5" rerollable charge to assault your units.

Now overwatch adds another 1 unsaved wound to each wraithknight. So all are down to 5 wounds, and one is down to 2. They wipe all their squads, and the ones that dont get wiped declare our weapons are useless, run and are chased down and die. Now you have 4 squads walking up the board, and a culexus. We can pretend only 2 wraiths are in range. At BS 6 they still both die, regardless if they had 5 wounds or 2 wounds.3 wraiths shoot back, killing a total of 8 or 9 guys. probably only mabye 2 in range to charge. Another wound each from overwatch. They wipe 2 more squads. The 2 squads kill another wraithknight. The 2 wraithknights kill 6 more and another squad. Turn 5 everything may or may not manage another wraithknight dead.

Each units overwatch does an average of 1 wounds before saves so Wks shouldn't be taking any wounds from overwatch. Also I don't know where you are getting 4 Squads coming from you only listed as taking 8 skitarii units (not 9) and you already used 5 of them. Only 3 squads would be walking on the table and thats assuming they all make reserve rolls (because from what i remember you don't have any reserve manipulation). Also you are forgetting that your guys are only moving 6" with 18" range thats only half way up the board. The WK would still be on their half of the table when you dropped on them so your units walking on wouldn't have range to shoot me at all. Also with the corrected math 3 squads wouldn't be enough to kill another WK.

There are not many wraithknights left to do much. If there are objectives they cant afford to sit on them for points. You are giving up linebreaker and first blood, probably warlord because that one gets priority. You GET warlord, but you lose because your 4 dead GMC gave the other player 8 points from 3 wounds off each GMC. This did not even take into account the pods, marines, or culexus.

Getting VP for every 3 wounds off a super heavy isn't an actual rule. Its only for use in Escalation mission (as per the Escalation FAQ). ITC just adding that to their tournament packet. Also nothing else in your army can hurt a WK. Once the Skiitari are dead you can't do anything to the WK.

Whops yes,this isnt 2k it was 1850 only 8. But your wrong about the charges. If you come in with a plan on one side of them, they are too big to all fit in a charge. And I forgot they are T8 not 7, but I also didnt add in the stats for the plasma squad that would have 9 str 7 shots with preferred enemy.

If we do the math on just that squad, they should do 6 wounds with the carbines and 8 hits with plasma, 3 or 4 wounds with preferred enemy. They kill a knight almost by themselves. One more pod with them and the other 3 to shoot a wraithknight SHOULD kill 2 on the drop.

Well 1 and a severly wounded one. Like my original example.

 Orock wrote:
Whops yes,this isnt 2k it was 1850 only 8. But your wrong about the charges. If you come in with a plan on one side of them, they are too big to all fit in a charge. And I forgot they are T8 not 7, but I also didnt add in the stats for the plasma squad that would have 9 str 7 shots with preferred enemy.

If we do the math on just that squad, they should do 6 wounds with the carbines and 8 hits with plasma, 3 or 4 wounds with preferred enemy. They kill a knight almost by themselves. One more pod with them and the other 3 to shoot a wraithknight SHOULD kill 2 on the drop.

Well 1 and a severly wounded one. Like my original example.

Even the plasma aren't going to be significant dent. They still get cover/invul and FNP. If their is a ruin anywhere they will all be toe in to get the 4+ (which is a 5+ against the omnispex). With the 5++/5+++ the plasma only do 1.7 wounds (which is without nightfight). That is not a significant jump in damage. That just means 4 squads will reliably kill a knight instead of maybe kill a night. Still won't kill two WKs on the drop

Also i have no idea what you are trying to say about the charges, that doesn't really come out as a coherent thought. I'll just bring up that since they are jump they can just charge over your units to get to any untis that might be behind something.

Yeah, I would need to draw what I am envisioning. Basically blocking knights charge lanes by coming in on the side of them.

Either way, I feel that the game wouldnt be a total blowout or loss every time, and has the tools to win. And its a battle forged army too. Since I dont play unbound, personally i wouldnt have to deal with it. Not trying to move the goal posts, but if it wanted to compete in a tournament, it would probably need to drop at least a knight for min leader and probably bikers.

I can make a battle forged eldar list with 5 WK (which honestly 5 should be enough since you can only kill 1 reliably on the first turn)

A stompa and gazillion fearless grots. You won't have a place to land. You won't be in range of a stompa with enough gunz to kill it. Grots will shoot you down and tarpit you all game. Grots will outscore you. And i don't think you'll be able to shoot enough 3 ppm guyz to make it matter.

Could also get some big gunz to shoot you down more effectively. And you won't be able to get to them either.

And the funny thing is that it's a TAC list for orks too

 koooaei wrote:
A stompa and gazillion fearless grots. You won't have a place to land. You won't be in range of a stompa with enough gunz to kill it. Grots will shoot you down and tarpit you all game. Grots will outscore you.

Could also get some big gunz to shoot you down more effectively. And you won't be able to get to them either.

And the funny thing is that it's a TAC list for orks too

um your deployment is only 24 inches. Even if you put the stompa on the ass edge of the board and completely filled your deployment, he sticks forward 8 inches. That is plenty of room to land near enough for a shot each rifle. 15 shots, 13 or 14 hits. probably 10 or 11 HP missing.. And If I land and get out within 1 inch of the grots you wont be able to pie plate my guys because it will be over the grots too with a 7 inch blast.. I play orks, and would like this to work really, but a stompa with 300 grots still loses.

Actually mabye on short table edges.


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 CrownAxe wrote:
I can make a battle forged eldar list with 5 WK (which honestly 5 should be enough since you can only kill 1 reliably on the first turn)

Diden't a 4 WK seer/jetbike list recently win adepticon or some other major tournament that allows multipe GMC?

Let's play it out in vassal? =)

Also just so you know the Flesh Tearer's detachment only has 6 fast attack slots, not 9

I would be willing to play it out in vassel as well

I have never been able to get vassel to work properly, which sucks because I have a feeling I would be on it constantly.


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one of these days I have to spend a few hours, sit down, watch some tutorials and see how it works.

Can help you out - it's easy. PM if you want

sent

Tau Pacific Rim list. Five Riptides, two Stormsurges all with Interceptor.

 raverrn wrote:
Tau Pacific Rim list. Five Riptides, two Stormsurges all with Interceptor.

Would be interesting for sure. I think it would come down to how well their interceptor went. If they had no interceptor markerlights, scatter is a real thing. Plus intercepting with the pie plates means no pie plates next turn. Spreading out and clustering the arc rifles closest to the enemy so they die first could make it interesting though. They would almost assuradley get first blood though.

No jokes. Only war

I still think the 5 or 6 wraithknights so far has the best chance of a far more than 50 precent win rate against this. Fortunatley you dont often see that many.

I'd have to second some of the other Tau players on here, you're severely underestimating Intercept. Our blasts are not the only weapon we can use in intercept, we have smart missiles, heavy burst cannons, cluster fire rocket systems, etc. My 1850 list has three riptides, an yvahra, a stormsurge, and 16 marker drones all with intercept. I would ruin your day. It would even be a guaranteed win if I go first as I'd just nova charge the Smart Missiles and the Heavy Burst Cannons.

How do you get 9 DP in one detachment? Asking, because I dont think you can, and if you can, I want to do it..... lololol

Here you go, my list.

Drone-Net VX1-0
4x4 Marker Drones

Heavy Retribution Cadre
Stormsurge [Early Warning Override, Pulse Driver Cannon, Shield Generator, Twin-linked Burst Cannon]
Stormsurge [Early Warning Override, Pulse Driver Cannon, Shield Generator, Twin-linked Burst Cannon]
Ghostkeel [Bonding Knife Ritual,Cyclic Ion Raker, Twin-linked Fusion Blaster]

Riptide Wing
Riptide [Heavy Burst Cannon, Stimulant Injector, Twin-linked Smart Missile System, Velocity Tracker]
Riptide [Early Warning Override, Ion Accelerator, Twin-linked Smart Missile System]
Riptide [Early Warning Override, Ion Accelerator, Twin-linked Smart Missile System]

Every weapon system that intercepts is one that would have more effect the next turn. I would take one pie plate instead of 2 from the same stormsurge on its firing turn any time. intercepting with the smart missle system you would still get a save as they are ap 5. And you have to make sure anyone that can takes out the jinking marker drones next turn, the pods can even contribute to that.

But again, this isnt "no list could beat this list" thread. Its about making a list that COULD win vs any other. The tau lists are strong, but not unbeatable. Even by a list like this who heavily relies on drop pods. I dont know if personally I would just drop the pods empty and start the guys on the board in these cases, would take a few games to work out the best choices.

 Orock wrote:
Every weapon system that intercepts is one that would have more effect the next turn. I would take one pie plate instead of 2 from the same stormsurge on its firing turn any time. intercepting with the smart missle system you would still get a save as they are ap 5. And you have to make sure anyone that can takes out the jinking marker drones next turn, the pods can even contribute to that.

But again, this isnt "no list could beat this list" thread. Its about making a list that COULD win vs any other. The tau lists are strong, but not unbeatable. Even by a list like this who heavily relies on drop pods. I dont know if personally I would just drop the pods empty and start the guys on the board in these cases, would take a few games to work out the best choices.

Aye it's a strong list no doubt, skitarii pod is quite good. It could win over tau lists or multi wraithknight lists depending on the dice as always. I would personally intercept as much as i deemed viable and targeting any possible units with the HRC units to debuff, then either fall back out of LOS or assault with stomps etc, depending on the outcome. Drones would be a target of course so they would be utilizing jink/go to ground/in cover/behind models etc.
Would be interesting to see you play test your list for sure!

Unless you have Heywire Grenades somewhere I would say, a single Landraider?