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With Specialist Games perhaps resurfacing, I've went on a real Epic craze, reading all there is to read on the game. I never played it, but wished I was in the hobby when it was, and would have loved to play it. Now, with SG back on the backburner, it might happen.

Times have changed, though, and a lot of things about the hobby and the fans have changed, so I think it's unlikely that Epic would ever come back the way we know it. Question is, what would change? Any rule changes, any changes in the faction makeout? Maybe the way the game is released in itself would change, who knows.

The GW we have now likes big models, which Epic doesn't really support initially, but there are possibilities. Of course Titans and many of them can be sold for around the 40-50 pounds a piece, but the size of an Epic conflict allows for some truly awesome sets, like large fortifications, manufactora and even smaller Hive Cities. The larger size of these conflicts also allow for some truly massive boxed sets, or even a standard of larger sets - So, for example, a box with a Tactical formation would have all you need for the formation itself, but with no option for buying it in a smaller package. This is not possible with 40k as it is because of the prices, but in Epic, such a set doesn't need to be more than 40 pounds.

I honestly couldn't say with the rules, though they seem very well made at the moment. However, I think the game would benefit a lot by putting emphasis on singular conflicts, like the "Storm" boxes did. Epic already did that with the Armaggedon rules, and I think this style of game would benefit even more for it.

What do you think? Any things you would have changed?

I'd say it never went away, it's just that to reach it, you had to stop leaning back on GW.

Anyways. Changes this time: sustained, extensive releases. A few of those during the last edition were only IG and ork variants, while older tyranid sprues were going for crazy money on ebay.

The key for me is to keep to the existing EA rulebook, itwas well thought out atthe time as a living set of rules (JJ taking a lot of input from fans) and it is arguably (apologies to those who like Netepic) the most playable of the rulesets.

However the most important thing will be to suportall the main factions - Tyranids would be a sure fire hit for them - and sy=ustain this over the years, Also they should consider plastics over metals. The high cost of getting into EA - unless yo already had owned/had an army/armies was quite prohibiitive and put some people off.

GW should also be aware that there are other mm games out there now so they have to be competeative in their pricing (Age of Tyrants coming in January looks very impressive).

I've always been intrigued by Epic as well...its second only to BFG on the list of games I want GW to bring back! I think GW will need to start over from scratch in the minis...the 90s era sculpts have not aged well. A lot of 3rd party Epic stuff, as well as Spartan's and Hawk's offerings, have put the vintage Epic stuff to shame. Of course, this being GW, I'm sure there will be new models .

Were I running GW, I would use Epic to enter the prepainted/colored plastic figure scene.

Step 1: New version of Titan Legions with prepainted Warlord titans.
Step 2: If step 1 is successful, expand the titan legions with additional sizes of titans.
Step 3: If game continues to succeed, expand with a limited variety of basic prepainted infantry and tanks.

If game takes off, offer more detailed models, additional kits, and items. Keep the game tactical and competitive. Rules for all models would be free on the website, but also printed on the back of the box in a perforated card you could remove. Infantry and tanks would be sold in platoons, which is also how they'd be deployed.

I wouldn't bring back the actual epic game. I think it has too limited potential audience, but I would bring the concept and soul back into distribution.

I'd also probably upscale it to 10mm rather than leave it at 6mm. This would put the largest titans at the approximate size of a 40k Knight, which would match up with GW's current philosophy of huge lumps of plastic, and probably appeal to a wider player base.

wilycoyote wrote:
The key for me is to keep to the existing EA rulebook, itwas well thought out atthe time as a living set of rules (JJ taking a lot of input from fans) and it is arguably (apologies to those who like Netepic) the most playable of the rulesets.

However the most important thing will be to suportall the main factions - Tyranids would be a sure fire hit for them - and sy=ustain this over the years, Also they should consider plastics over metals. The high cost of getting into EA - unless yo already had owned/had an army/armies was quite prohibiitive and put some people off.

GW should also be aware that there are other mm games out there now so they have to be competeative in their pricing (Age of Tyrants coming in January looks very impressive).

I liked the theatre-based background for the game (as with Battlefleet Gothic), so if it were me, I'd split the existing Epic: Armageddon rulebook up into the basic rules and fluff overview (the basics of the setting) then repackage the 3rd Armageddon War material - the background, stats for Orks, Marines and Guard, and the tournament army lists - into a seprate document. Then you'd have the Epic rules, an Armageddon supplement, a Swordwind supplement, then do something like, say, Chaos vs Mechanicus/Titan Legions and Tyranids vs Cadians to get all the previous official army lists back into play, then go from there. If the various "theatre books" could include special scenarios, terrain rules, etc, as well, that would be even better.

I really don't want the scale to increase. The whole draw of Epic is to field an entire Space Marine battle company or Imperial Guard infantry regiment, at once. 10mm doesn't really allow that, if my experience with Dropzone Commander and Heavy Gear Blitz is anything to go by.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

wilycoyote wrote:
The key for me is to keep to the existing EA rulebook, itwas well thought out atthe time as a living set of rules (JJ taking a lot of input from fans) and it is arguably (apologies to those who like Netepic) the most playable of the rulesets.

However the most important thing will be to suportall the main factions - Tyranids would be a sure fire hit for them - and sy=ustain this over the years, Also they should consider plastics over metals. The high cost of getting into EA - unless yo already had owned/had an army/armies was quite prohibiitive and put some people off.

GW should also be aware that there are other mm games out there now so they have to be competeative in their pricing (Age of Tyrants coming in January looks very impressive).

I liked the theatre-based background for the game (as with Battlefleet Gothic), so if it were me, I'd split the existing Epic: Armageddon rulebook up into the basic rules and fluff overview (the basics of the setting) then repackage the 3rd Armageddon War material - the background, stats for Orks, Marines and Guard, and the tournament army lists - into a seprate document. Then you'd have the Epic rules, an Armageddon supplement, a Swordwind supplement, then do something like, say, Chaos vs Mechanicus/Titan Legions and Tyranids vs Cadians to get all the previous official army lists back into play, then go from there. If the various "theatre books" could include special scenarios, terrain rules, etc, as well, that would be even better.

I really don't want the scale to increase. The whole draw of Epic is to field an entire Space Marine battle company or Imperial Guard infantry regiment, at once. 10mm doesn't really allow that, if my experience with Dropzone Commander and Heavy Gear Blitz is anything to go by.

I have seen fanmade 6mm models, and they are gorgeous - I don't think a larger scale would improve upon that. Then again, a small increase, like to 8mm, would perhaps be okay... Would make the old Epic models be unusuable, so everyone has to buy new to play the new game

Oh man, I hate to get started on this, but as I have been into Epic since Adeptus Titanics/Space Marine v1, I hope they undo the heresy that Epic A was and start over completely.

As far as pre-painted go, that will never happen and I am thankful for that too. However, I agree on the Titans. Titans were a pretty important part of the game early on, and the last two editions didn't really encourage their use, or in some cases, flat out limited them. But the one thing Epic has always had over smaller scale war games were the Titans.

Customizable plastic titans, with multiple weapon options, would be a great start.

 The Wise Dane wrote:
Would make the old Epic models be unusuable, so everyone has to buy new to play the new game

Or carry on as they already are.

I know the 2nd edition remains popular, but ... it's just not for me. I much prefer the streamlined rules of Epic 40,000 or Epic Armageddon.

I suspect that what we'll get first is an Adeptus Titanicus III boxed game.

AoS style rules might work well for Epic. Don't like it for 28mm skirmish but for large scale strategy games it'll work better. Being available to buy and play in store will also be a big thing as would continuous support.

 Llamahead wrote:
AoS style rules might work well for Epic.

No it wouldn't, although Epic:A at least was heavily scenario based, points values were only included grudgingly at the back of the book. The only the of game where AoS style rules and (lack of) army comp would be in some kind of casual RPG and even then just barely.

I am no longer familiar with the Space Marine/Adeptus Titanicus rules but the Epic:A rules are some of the best that GW has ever produced, the less said about Epic:40k the better.

Really don't like the idea of losing the use of my models :p
This is a small part of my collection and what's currently in the process of being painted.



I play 2nd Ed though and love the streamline rules.


Hopefully GW just expand armies and throw out new models, although, I'm hoping they stick with the old style.
I also don't see them re-releasing squats as it means accepting that they once existed.
So I'll still be buying from eBay.

I honestly think that if they bring back Epic, they will make every effort to make it incompatible with all the earlier models, so people can't bland them with what they already have. I hate how pessimistic it is, but I think it's realistic with the GW of the last decade.

I think it would be at least the 10mm scale of Dropzone commander or Firestorm, because everything could be bigger (and unfortunately more expensive). I think they would really want $80 titans.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I honestly think that if they bring back Epic, they will make every effort to make it incompatible with all the earlier models, so people can't bland them with what they already have. I hate how pessimistic it is, but I think it's realistic with the GW of the last decade.

I expect there would be a limited budget for this given that it is basically being run by Forgeworld. Forgeworld certainly had a reasonably large selection of 6mm sculpts so I would imagine that they would want to reuse them.

A change to 10mm isn't impossible that I don't think that it is likely. If GW really want a gigantic Titan then there is always the Imperator and the standard Titans were all reputedly underscaled as well.

 Silent Puffin? wrote:

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I honestly think that if they bring back Epic, they will make every effort to make it incompatible with all the earlier models, so people can't bland them with what they already have. I hate how pessimistic it is, but I think it's realistic with the GW of the last decade.

I expect there would be a limited budget for this given that it is basically being run by Forgeworld. Forgeworld certainly had a reasonably large selection of 6mm sculpts so I would imagine that they would want to reuse them.

A change to 10mm isn't impossible that I don't think that it is likely. If GW really want a gigantic Titan then there is always the Imperator and the standard Titans were all reputedly underscaled as well.

Well, it all depends on what GW wants out of the game. if they do a limited run specialist game to get the very small number of vets who want a specifically 40k game in small scale, then that's fine. If they're still sitting on all the old molds, then they could accomplish that pretty easily. There's a small amount of money to be made that way, but a large amount of good will so I think it would be a net positive for them. Optimally they could just do extremely limited runs (ala a kick starter system) and ship them out in padded envelopes without fancy print boxes. That's how I'd be running the entirety of the specialist games division were it me. Setup the website so people could reserve their orders, and when you get enough for a run, print them out and ship them as cheaply as possible. But I don't think they'll do something like that, as much as us old Epic players would love to just be able to buy the sprues we want.

Given how well the Imperial Knights sold (supposedly), I think a game based around models at that scale could actually sell pretty well. You could crib a lot of rules from BFG and have a damn fine little game with only one or two models. of course the models will cost you $200 each, but you'll only need one or two to get started. Perfect business model as far as GW is concerned.

 The Wise Dane wrote:
Then again, a small increase, like to 8mm, would perhaps be okay... Would make the old Epic models be unusuable, so everyone has to buy new to play the new game

It would have to be a major increase to invalidate the old models, the 1st edition metal lesser daemons were 10-12mm (I've always wondered if they were sculpted as 3-ups for a plastic set), whilst the Epic 40,000 Space Marine sprue included brand new 7-8mm tall sculpts on the same sprue as the 1st edition 5.5mm rank and file Space Marines.

The only real issue would be basing, and since GW is now leaning towards "it doesn't matter, do what you want" for 40k, I doubt they'd mess with Epic that way.

This is the sort of thing I'd like to see coming out

Leman Russ Tank Battalion - 35 (2 + 3x11) Leman Russ, with options - price £35 - £50
Artillery Battalion - as above with the obvious changes
Super Heavy Tank Company - 10 Baneblades with options - price £35 - £50
Mordian Infantry Battalion - hundreds of little fellas all lined up in their smart uniforms - price whatever, doesn't matter, I'll pay it

Obviously the actual prices would probably be 2 or 3 times those above.

If they scale creep to invalidate all the old stuff (or whatever excuse them come up with), I'll stick with my current armies, I can't see them doing new rules I could possibly prefer to EA anyway. If they don't scale creep, and release plastics like above, I will spend 1 squillion pounds.

 Darkjim wrote:
This is the sort of thing I'd like to see coming out

Leman Russ Tank Battalion - 35 (2 + 3x11) Leman Russ, with options - price £35 - £50
Artillery Battalion - as above with the obvious changes
Super Heavy Tank Company - 10 Baneblades with options - price £35 - £50
Mordian Infantry Battalion - hundreds of little fellas all lined up in their smart uniforms - price whatever, doesn't matter, I'll pay it

Obviously the actual prices would probably be 2 or 3 times those above.

If they scale creep to invalidate all the old stuff (or whatever excuse them come up with), I'll stick with my current armies, I can't see them doing new rules I could possibly prefer to EA anyway. If they don't scale creep, and release plastics like above, I will spend 1 squillion pounds.

I'd do with that, too. I can see your standard 90£ package of IG and Orks as the starter pack, with additional packages like the Dark Vengeance expansion packs available shortly after.

Thoughts are mixed. While knowing GW, they would change the scale to screw over all company's/third party casters but it would need to be atleast 15mm. At 10mm, Epic is pretty much at that scale to begin with. Dropzone infantry to epic infantry are hardly any bigger, same with vehicles. So 10mm would do no harm. At 15mm, people would just use their old stuff. Which is very easy to get for any army.

The good part is Specialist Games is Forgeworld made. Forgeworld made epic already. And they are the far better half of games workshop, so it would make sense to use the molds they have for many of their products already done in high modern detail.

As for the above, I don't see them going to that extent of models. 10 Leman for 35 is the current price. And super heavies are maybe 3 in the game currently which cost 5-10$ each. I just don't see these big box sets of vehicles

Nope me neither, as I said above I imagine the prices could be 3 times that, so £50 for 10 Leman Russ wouldn't surprise me.

If they were plastic and 6mm it would be an outrageous price as a 6mm LR isn't much bigger than a 40K space marines chest, but not surprising.

I think that the metal Leman Russ company that GW used to sell was around £45. I would expect that a newer version would be substantially more.

Bols is reporting it will be all about the titans
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/01/gw-adeptus-titanicus-latest.html

 wildphilldude wrote:
Bols is reporting it will be all about the titans
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/01/gw-adeptus-titanicus-latest.html

Given GW's recent design focus on big models, I'm not surprised. It fits with my own expectation of what they'd do, and what might actually succeed in the modern marketplace.

I just hope they invest some effort into the rules and gameplay, and don't try and just produce fancy models to carry an otherwise poorly developed product, as they did in dreadfleet.

 Silent Puffin? wrote:

 Llamahead wrote:
AoS style rules might work well for Epic.

No it wouldn't, although Epic:A at least was heavily scenario based, points values were only included grudgingly at the back of the book. The only the of game where AoS style rules and (lack of) army comp would be in some kind of casual RPG and even then just barely.

Not quite what I mean't was the abstract fixed hit and damage rolls based on unit rather than target and simplified statlines rather than the lack of points and army comp. Simple resolution for lots of individual stands works best for large scale rather than skirmish games where I want to have lots of options and responses.

 Llamahead wrote:

Not quite what I mean't was the abstract fixed hit and damage rolls based on unit rather than target and simplified statlines rather than the lack of points and army comp. Simple resolution for lots of individual stands works best for large scale rather than skirmish games where I want to have lots of options and responses.

That's largely the case with Epic:A.

To bring epic back they need to throw out any connection. To epic 40k as that is what killed the game within a few weeks.

Model wise they need to price it well or it will die before its started.

For rules they need to look at the older rules for epic from titan legion and space marine and maybe redo them maybe more in line with something like fow.

They need a huge release for epic will probably require the most time and biggest release schedule of the games lined up.

Stay away from epic 40k is a must and I can't stress this enough let's hope they have learned there lesson we are not all stupid and don't need to be treated as such.

Fingers crossed but I can see so much going wrong with this one as it seems that dumbing things down is the new trend for the gaming company's and for the love of all that's good head the fow of war rules wise direction than the epic40k direction

Epic Armageddon as the last publication would be the last logical point to start from. I would worry to much about Epic 40k.

Interesting about starting with the Titans, after all this where it all began for GW Epic.

A couple of thoughts about this, I would love to see the old "beetlebacks" making a returm, the newer stuff was too modernistic/streamlined - but hey that is me.

Second thought, scale, if you are doing a titans game why not go to 1/600th rather than 1/300th, afterall the models will end up slightly bigger than the current 40k range (in epic terms think KNoghts). At this scale truly "epic" titan engagements could be thought, As for the rest, well again I am swimming against the tide but I do use Odzial Osmy's (sp?) 3mm ranges for WW2 and Moderns (Blitzkreig/Cols Commander rules) and the models are surprisingly detailed ebven at that size.

If the new models don't look like the 40k models put out by Forge World I'll be very surprised. Those are already picking up design cues from the "beetlebacks" without being crap like those models.

Oh, and every version of Epic has had shooting rolls based on the firer. The target's only input to the process was to occasionally make saves.