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This came up recently. Is there any rule that states FMC do NOT strike at I1 for charing a unit in difficult terrain? Specific scenario: Belakor charging a unit of tac marines in a ruin. Thanks!

They don't suffer the charge distance penalty, but still suffer the initiative penalty.

However the player could still have managed to strike at normal initiative in that combat if he managed to hit the tactical marines with a skull cannon first, giving assault grenades to any unit that charges the unit hit by the skull cannon.

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
They don't suffer the charge distance penalty, but still suffer the initiative penalty.

However the player could still have managed to strike at normal initiative in that combat if he managed to hit the tactical marines with a skull cannon first, giving assault grenades to any unit that charges the unit hit by the skull cannon.

Note that if a FMC is in the slower flight mode, which it must be to charge, it simply counts as Jump MC.

 Chaos Spawn wrote:

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
They don't suffer the charge distance penalty, but still suffer the initiative penalty.

However the player could still have managed to strike at normal initiative in that combat if he managed to hit the tactical marines with a skull cannon first, giving assault grenades to any unit that charges the unit hit by the skull cannon.

Note that if a FMC is in the slower flight mode, which it must be to charge, it simply counts as Jump MC.

No its a FMC still, it just moves like a jump MC

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Chaos Spawn wrote:

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
They don't suffer the charge distance penalty, but still suffer the initiative penalty.

However the player could still have managed to strike at normal initiative in that combat if he managed to hit the tactical marines with a skull cannon first, giving assault grenades to any unit that charges the unit hit by the skull cannon.

Note that if a FMC is in the slower flight mode, which it must be to charge, it simply counts as Jump MC.

No its a FMC still, it just moves like a jump MC

For the purposes of this discussion the difference is not really worth commenting on.

Yup, you still take the initiative penalty.

Monstrous Creatures all have Move Through Cover, which means they don't get slowed down in terms of distance when charging into terrain, and don't take dangerous terrain tests, but they still suffer the initiative penalty.


The only ways to charge into difficult terrain and not be striking last are:

a) Having assault grenades (or some equivalent wargear or special rule like assassins do) that says you ignore this rule

b) Charging a unit which is already in an assault

c) Charging a unit which has gone to ground (one reason Broodlords are very useful for Genestealers!)

d) Charging a unit whose initiative is or can be lowered to '1' anyway - unwieldy or colossal weapons, banshee masks, etc

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Chaos Spawn wrote:

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
They don't suffer the charge distance penalty, but still suffer the initiative penalty.

However the player could still have managed to strike at normal initiative in that combat if he managed to hit the tactical marines with a skull cannon first, giving assault grenades to any unit that charges the unit hit by the skull cannon.

Note that if a FMC is in the slower flight mode, which it must be to charge, it simply counts as Jump MC.

No its a FMC still, it just moves like a jump MC

The BRB said that if a unit is said to move like a Jump unit then it is treated as a Jump unit.

 Chaos Spawn wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Chaos Spawn wrote:

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
They don't suffer the charge distance penalty, but still suffer the initiative penalty.

However the player could still have managed to strike at normal initiative in that combat if he managed to hit the tactical marines with a skull cannon first, giving assault grenades to any unit that charges the unit hit by the skull cannon.

Note that if a FMC is in the slower flight mode, which it must be to charge, it simply counts as Jump MC.

No its a FMC still, it just moves like a jump MC

The BRB said that if a unit is said to move like a Jump unit then it is treated as a Jump unit.

No the BRB does not say that.

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Chaos Spawn wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Chaos Spawn wrote:

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
They don't suffer the charge distance penalty, but still suffer the initiative penalty.

However the player could still have managed to strike at normal initiative in that combat if he managed to hit the tactical marines with a skull cannon first, giving assault grenades to any unit that charges the unit hit by the skull cannon.

Note that if a FMC is in the slower flight mode, which it must be to charge, it simply counts as Jump MC.

No its a FMC still, it just moves like a jump MC

The BRB said that if a unit is said to move like a Jump unit then it is treated as a Jump unit.

No the BRB does not say that.

It is close enough for the purposes of this discussion. The differences have no relationship with Charging in to Cover.

Charistoph wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Chaos Spawn wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Chaos Spawn wrote:

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
They don't suffer the charge distance penalty, but still suffer the initiative penalty.

However the player could still have managed to strike at normal initiative in that combat if he managed to hit the tactical marines with a skull cannon first, giving assault grenades to any unit that charges the unit hit by the skull cannon.

Note that if a FMC is in the slower flight mode, which it must be to charge, it simply counts as Jump MC.

No its a FMC still, it just moves like a jump MC

The BRB said that if a unit is said to move like a Jump unit then it is treated as a Jump unit.

No the BRB does not say that.

It is close enough for the purposes of this discussion. The differences have no relationship with Charging in to Cover.

Close enough isn't good when it's inaccurate. If the BRB doesn't say something, don't say that it does. If the BRB says something different, but the outcome is accidentally the same, don't say it's close enough. That sort of thing muddies a rules debate.

 Kriswall wrote:

Charistoph wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Chaos Spawn wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 Chaos Spawn wrote:

AncientSkarbrand wrote:
They don't suffer the charge distance penalty, but still suffer the initiative penalty.

However the player could still have managed to strike at normal initiative in that combat if he managed to hit the tactical marines with a skull cannon first, giving assault grenades to any unit that charges the unit hit by the skull cannon.

Note that if a FMC is in the slower flight mode, which it must be to charge, it simply counts as Jump MC.

No its a FMC still, it just moves like a jump MC

The BRB said that if a unit is said to move like a Jump unit then it is treated as a Jump unit.

No the BRB does not say that.

It is close enough for the purposes of this discussion. The differences have no relationship with Charging in to Cover.

Close enough isn't good when it's inaccurate. If the BRB doesn't say something, don't say that it does. If the BRB says something different, but the outcome is accidentally the same, don't say it's close enough. That sort of thing muddies a rules debate.

Excuse me?
Page 68
If a Flying Monstrous Creature is gliding, it moves, runs and charges exactly like a Jump Monstrous Creature.

 Chaos Spawn wrote:
Excuse me?
Page 68
If a Flying Monstrous Creature is gliding, it moves, runs and charges exactly like a Jump Monstrous Creature.

Is Deep Striking moving, running or charging?

 Ghaz wrote:

 Chaos Spawn wrote:
Excuse me?
Page 68
If a Flying Monstrous Creature is gliding, it moves, runs and charges exactly like a Jump Monstrous Creature.

Is Deep Striking moving, running or charging?

A Flying Monstrous Creature that Deep Strikes counts as being in gliding mode. Considering it is done in the movement phase, we must assume moving.

So you're basing your answer on an assumption instead of an actual written rule?

 Kriswall wrote:
Close enough isn't good when it's inaccurate. If the BRB doesn't say something, don't say that it does. If the BRB says something different, but the outcome is accidentally the same, don't say it's close enough. That sort of thing muddies a rules debate.

There is no "accidentally" the same. This is worrying about something that is off-topic and does not concern the subject of the thread.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Chaos Spawn wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

 Chaos Spawn wrote:
Excuse me?
Page 68
If a Flying Monstrous Creature is gliding, it moves, runs and charges exactly like a Jump Monstrous Creature.

Is Deep Striking moving, running or charging?

A Flying Monstrous Creature that Deep Strikes counts as being in gliding mode. Considering it is done in the movement phase, we must assume moving.

Swooping, actually, but the Flight Mode of a FMC after Deep Striking has little bearing on the affect it is under when Charging in to Difficult Terrain.

 Ghaz wrote:
So you're basing your answer on an assumption instead of an actual written rule?

Last I checked, you move the unit onto the tabletop, and then moved it again to determine position after scatter. So if you are so obsessed with the myth of RAW, it is still moving. In fact, by RAW, if you accidentally knock over a devastator, he can't fire his heavy weapon because literally he has moved. So perhaps allow a little leeway on RAW when common sense will suffice hmm...?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Charistoph wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:
Close enough isn't good when it's inaccurate. If the BRB doesn't say something, don't say that it does. If the BRB says something different, but the outcome is accidentally the same, don't say it's close enough. That sort of thing muddies a rules debate.

There is no "accidentally" the same. This is worrying about something that is off-topic and does not concern the subject of the thread.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Chaos Spawn wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

 Chaos Spawn wrote:
Excuse me?
Page 68
If a Flying Monstrous Creature is gliding, it moves, runs and charges exactly like a Jump Monstrous Creature.

Is Deep Striking moving, running or charging?

A Flying Monstrous Creature that Deep Strikes counts as being in gliding mode. Considering it is done in the movement phase, we must assume moving.

Swooping, actually, but the Flight Mode of a FMC after Deep Striking has little bearing on the affect it is under when Charging in to Difficult Terrain.
Thanks I thought gliding sounded wrong, I just no longer have my rulebook to hand as I have gone out.

using a real word definition as opposed to a rules definition is not RAW

If we have nothing more to say on the actual topic of the thread, we should move all this talk of FMCs back to the appropriate thread

 jokerkd wrote:
using a real word definition as opposed to a rules definition is not RAW

If we have nothing more to say on the actual topic of the thread, we should move all this talk of FMCs back to the appropriate thread

You define RAW then.
You can't because the rules are written in language, which can be interpreted in many ways.

Except move has a specific definition internal to the game. You can't then use a different one when you choose.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Except move has a specific definition internal to the game. You can't then use a different one when you choose.

So what would you count DS as?

 Chaos Spawn wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Except move has a specific definition internal to the game. You can't then use a different one when you choose.

So what would you count DS as?

In regards to what? Deep Strike is not a move of any sort as defined in the rulebook, it's a special rule that allows units to deploy in a certain way. The unit counts as having moved for the purposes of firing weapons etc., but it has not moved as DS specifically prohibits them from moving in the movement phase, the exception being disembarking from a transport.

Would it be treated as a Jump unit for DS?

 Chaos Spawn wrote:
Would it be treated as a Jump unit for DS?

The rules don't say to so their is no reason to

 Chaos Spawn wrote:
Would it be treated as a Jump unit for DS?

See the other thread in this subforum which is just 6 pages of people not coming to a conclusion about how to treat FMC and DS.

Oh look, just happened to read the Jump entry under unit types, where it states:
A model said to move like a Jump unit is treated as a Jump unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Chaos Spawn wrote:
Oh look, just happened to read the Jump entry under unit types, where it states:
A model said to move like a Jump unit is treated as a Jump unit.

To quote that:
Page 65.
Units that are described as moving like Jump units follow all the rules for Jump units, and use the same special rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post: