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Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Bathing in elitist French expats fumes

Thinking about this kept me up last night. And I hate losing sleep.

So, with the current meta being heavily in favour of either dirt cheap low-PS generics or 9-to-11 aces, I feel like a lot of middle of the road pilots are not seeing light of day, or are being passed over in favour of more competitive options. I'll admit to fielding PS 7 or 8 pilots with Veteran Instincts as a default just to remain in that top tier most of the time. The only exception so far seems to be Kyle Katarn, whose ability is just too good to pass up, in my case.

Any thoughts on how we could rehabilitate, or how FFG could do it, the middle of the road of Piloting Skills?

 GamesWorkshop wrote:
And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!

 
   
Made in ca
Huge Hierodule






Outflanking

1)Stop releasing pilots with middle-of-the-road PS and abilities which require them to have better PS than their opponent to be useful

Seriously, there are a lot of pilots who are paying a premium for some mobility ability, who's terrible PS prevents them from being useful. From Wave 8 alone so far we have:

-Blue Ace
-Hera
-Sabine
-Ello Asty

All of whom have sweet abilities, but who's potential is wasted by all having a 7 or less for PS. Sure, they are good vs. Generics, but are pretty much hard-countered by someone PS8+. Asty and [Shuttle] Hera can at least take Vet Instincts, but are kinda forced to, which limits their options severely.


2) Mid-level Aces have a lot of the support abilities. Problem is, they often cost enough to limit the number of ships that you can support. Big offenders here include Kannan Jarrus and Lando Calrissian, who's rides will take up at least half of your points.

3) Mid-level Aces Pilot Abilities power tend to be all over the map. Some, like Red Ace, Deathrain or Biggs, are great. Others, like Gemmer Sojan or Graz the Hunter, simply end up being signals to shoot at something else first.


So, if I were to decide, I would make a rule that nobody with PS 8> would get an ability to increase their mobility unless it has some kind of bypass on PS. Valen Rudor is a good example. Sure, he is a high-mobility ship with low PS. However, he gets to perform actions during the combat phase, so only one pilot gets to know where he will end up by the time that they shoot. Second, I would limit support abilities to ships that cost 30 points or less after reasonable upgrades, as this is where the cutoff appears to fall. This will still allow you two 35-ish point aces to support. Examples of ships within this include Biggs, Palpatine in Shuttle, Stressbot in TLT-hog, and Howlrunner. Also, their support ability cannot be reliant on having better PS than their squad mates for maximum effect (Garvin Dreis). Third, I would focus on abilities which give more offensive punch, or a significant survival advantage- both of which are worth paying extra for in a joust. Just giving +1 Agility under certain conditions is not enough (Graz the Hunnter, Gemmer Sojan). Something like Red Ace or Dark Curses ability which actually allows you to weather more damage than the same points of generics. Alternately, guys like Deathrain or Keyan Farlander who add a lot of offensive punch.

Q: What do you call a Dinosaur Handpuppet?

A: A Maniraptor 
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Bathing in elitist French expats fumes

Yeah, but what would motivate you to play, say, a Dagger squadron pilot over a Blue squadron pilot? There is nothing at the moment and I feel this is a missed opportunity.

 GamesWorkshop wrote:
And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!

 
   
Made in ca
Ghastly Grave Guard





Canada

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Yeah, but what would motivate you to play, say, a Dagger squadron pilot over a Blue squadron pilot? There is nothing at the moment and I feel this is a missed opportunity.


Absolutely nothing. Even the jump from Academy Pilot to Black Squadron gets you an Elite slot, which can be useful in some cases if you're at an odd points level. The middle step from Academy to Obsidian Squadron Pilot is worthless though.
   
Made in ca
Huge Hierodule






Outflanking

Honestly, there are two reason s to run an elite generic- They are a cheap EPT caddy, or you are dropping a couple extra points to finish off enemy generics before they get to shoot.

Q: What do you call a Dinosaur Handpuppet?

A: A Maniraptor 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






Honestly, I'm not sure it's really possible at this point. Mid-PS ships suffer badly from the fact that PS gives you no direct benefits on offense or defense. Garven (PS 6) dies just as easily as a rookie pilot (PS 2), outside of the occasional time when you can kill a ship before it returns fire. The only way to turn PS into staying alive longer is through maneuvering actions, and that means taking high-PS aces like Soontir Fel. Trying to make a high-maneuverability ace out of a mid-PS ship means you end up paying almost as many points as the high-end stuff for much weaker performance. So if you're not going to take efficient generics you might as well go all the way up to the highest tier of pilots.

To fix this you'd either need to change core game mechanics to reward PS directly and/or make a much bigger gap in point costs between PS tiers. And it's just too late to do this without rebooting the game and publishing X-Wing 2.0.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
1)Stop releasing pilots with middle-of-the-road PS and abilities which require them to have better PS than their opponent to be useful


Also, this. These abilities just miss the point on what ships are viable, and you end up with pilots that might as well not exist.

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
Yeah, but what would motivate you to play, say, a Dagger squadron pilot over a Blue squadron pilot? There is nothing at the moment and I feel this is a missed opportunity.


Dagger squadron pilots were actually pretty good and part of the world champion's list a few waves ago. The main reason to take them is as a metagame counter. If the metagame is full of generic ships you can get some value out of beating their PS, especially if your ships have maneuvering actions to take advantage of their PS. The reason the dagger squadron b-wings were popular was that they gave you PS 4 without sacrificing ship count like a higher-PS option would have required.

The problem with them right now is there isn't really a list that meets the right conditions. For example, TLT spam is popular, but TLT spam also can't afford to take gray squadron y-wings without losing the ability to take four TLTs. And aces are popular enough that bidding up to mid-PS ships like dagger squadron b-wings feels like wasted points too often. But if the metagame changes that evaluation can change as well.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/09 03:14:54


There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

It's not the most elegant of solutions, but there's already a precedent for PS restricted upgrades, so I guess introducing some that are non-unique ships only, or limited to PS3-6 pilots or somethings, has the scope to give people a reason to look again at these ships.

What those upgrades would do, whether they'd be a new slot (like Modifcations were) or fill existing upgrade slots and whether they'd be sufficient to achieve this are above my pay grade.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

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Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Bathing in elitist French expats fumes

It could be a bunch of title cards with "your PS can't be higher that X" or "between X and Y."


Automatically Appended Next Post:
For instance, I like the idea of a green squadron pilot with the title card and 2 EPTs. I've never flown them, but I like the idea.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/09 21:43:13


 GamesWorkshop wrote:
And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!

 
   
Made in us
Inspiring SDF-1 Bridge Officer





Mississippi

Another option - which probably wouldn't go over well - would be to put a cap on total piloting skill. Perhaps a limit of 10 Pilot skill total (which could be modified up or down).

Want to run Poe with Veteran Instincts? That will be the ONLY ship you run. Instead, you could run two pilots with 5 PS each, or a swarm of 6 with PS 1 and one PS4 pilot.

It never ends well 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Stormonu wrote:
Another option - which probably wouldn't go over well - would be to put a cap on total piloting skill. Perhaps a limit of 10 Pilot skill total (which could be modified up or down).

Want to run Poe with Veteran Instincts? That will be the ONLY ship you run. Instead, you could run two pilots with 5 PS each, or a swarm of 6 with PS 1 and one PS4 pilot.


You're right, it won't go over very well, because it's a terrible idea. This would cripple list-building options and effectively remove aces from the game. Nobody is going to take Poe with no other ships in a standard 100 point game, and PS 9 pilots like Wedge and Fel become impossible to use no matter what you put on them. And even mid-PS pilots really suffer. Taking two PS 5 (small-base) ships is suicide, and even something like a Garven/rookie/rookie/rookie list would exceed your proposed cap. Pretty much anything that isn't a swarm of low-PS generics is going to be leaving at least 20-30 points unspent because there's no more PS available.

And it's also a terrible idea because it does nothing to address the metagame pressure against mid-PS pilots from the other direction. Removing aces from the game doesn't do anything to hinder the effectiveness of low-PS generics. I don't know about you, but I'd rather have a game where there are options besides TIE swarm, BBBBZ, and TLT spam.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Azreal13 wrote:
It's not the most elegant of solutions, but there's already a precedent for PS restricted upgrades, so I guess introducing some that are non-unique ships only, or limited to PS3-6 pilots or somethings, has the scope to give people a reason to look again at these ships.


I think it's just so inelegant that it's not a viable idea. It doesn't make any sense to have upgrades that only mid-tier pilots can use. Why shouldn't the best pilots get access to any upgrades they want, fluff-wise? It doesn't make any sense to say "sorry Mr. Fel, you're too good at killing stuff so you don't get to have this shiny new toy". The most you could do would be to have a "standard issue" thing for non-unique pilots that gives them a bit more raw power (probably through a point cost reduction) at the expense of customization, but that's really just a buff to low-PS generics that are already powerful enough as it is.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/01/11 03:21:07


There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

No, it is tricky to make it both mechanically and fluffily sound.

I guess one could take a leaf out of the old Decipher CCG, they introduced global effect cards that you could choose to start with that boosted play styles that were perhaps not strong enough or too complex to execute without them.

It wouldn't break the game to introduce a card category which worked something along the lines of the same thing. Say an upgrade you could buy that conferred a bonus to unique ships with a PS in a specified range.

It could work something like formations do in 40K, with set limits or options in exchange for a boost, but, you know, not broken.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/11 04:04:23


We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

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Made in us
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 Azreal13 wrote:
I guess one could take a leaf out of the old Decipher CCG, they introduced global effect cards that you could choose to start with that boosted play styles that were perhaps not strong enough or too complex to execute without them.


IMO this has three problems, which shouldn't be a surprise given how awful that CCG was:

1) It's still counter-intuitive fluff-wise. What is this kind of global effect supposed to represent? Why are PS 6 pilots better at executing a particular strategy than PS 9 pilots? Being second-best at something shouldn't give you advantages.

2) It really hurts list flexibility. One thing that FFG has done a good job of is limiting the number of ships/upgrades that force you to take specific other ships/upgrades to go with them. If you pick a given ship you like you're free to take whatever you want to go with it. But if you introduce too many buffs for taking specific combinations of ships you start to feel obligated to take the "intended" combination and any other list with that ship/upgrade feels weak and unappealing.

3) It's a major obstacle to future balance efforts. It's the same problem that 40k has right now: if you buff a weak unit by giving it a powerful formation then you have very little room to fix it for uses outside of that formation. If the weak ship is later buffed to a competitive level then the "balance fix" formation becomes overpowered. So you end up with a situation where the ship is playable in one particular formation, but FFG can never make it viable in any other kind of list. And that's a very bad problem to have.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

 Peregrine wrote:
 Azreal13 wrote:
I guess one could take a leaf out of the old Decipher CCG, they introduced global effect cards that you could choose to start with that boosted play styles that were perhaps not strong enough or too complex to execute without them.


IMO this has three problems, which shouldn't be a surprise given how awful that CCG was:


Yeah, we're not going to see eye to eye there...


1) It's still counter-intuitive fluff-wise. What is this kind of global effect supposed to represent? Why are PS 6 pilots better at executing a particular strategy than PS 9 pilots? Being second-best at something shouldn't give you advantages.


Well, firstly, I'm not a game designer, I'm just spitballing here. Secondly, this specific set of circumstances could represent a point where the Aces are absent for some reason (death, deployed elsewhere) and the lower pilots are steeping up to fill the breach.

2) It really hurts list flexibility. One thing that FFG has done a good job of is limiting the number of ships/upgrades that force you to take specific other ships/upgrades to go with them. If you pick a given ship you like you're free to take whatever you want to go with it. But if you introduce too many buffs for taking specific combinations of ships you start to feel obligated to take the "intended" combination and any other list with that ship/upgrade feels weak and unappealing.


It really doesn't. Nothing balanced will hurt list flexibility, it just provides more options. Equally, not everyone is playing at a tournament level 100% of the time, making stuff more viable and interesting at the semi-competitive/friendly level will undoubtedly prove popular with many folks.

3) It's a major obstacle to future balance efforts. It's the same problem that 40k has right now: if you buff a weak unit by giving it a powerful formation then you have very little room to fix it for uses outside of that formation. If the weak ship is later buffed to a competitive level then the "balance fix" formation becomes overpowered. So you end up with a situation where the ship is playable in one particular formation, but FFG can never make it viable in any other kind of list. And that's a very bad problem to have.


Equally, this is a very complex problem to fix, and it's likely that if they try to address it then any solution will be flawed, the best we can hope for is that if they do try and fix it, the game remains fun and doesn't veer wildly off course. But this isn't 40K, so that probably won't happen.

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

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Made in us
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Toledo, OH

I know nothing about X-wing, but I do know that a lot of analysis of historical dogfighting shows that a handful of aces account for the vast majority of air-to-air kills. It's interesting to see that the metagame has shifted in the same way.

   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch





I sort of agree with Az13, maybe a 'squadron' upgrade card that was basically along the lines of 'choose up to(insert suitable number) non-unique ships under PS (whatever), get bonus of some kind, discard this card if more than half the squadron is killed', sort of representing a group that is used to fighting as a unit but aren't 'aces'

Problem comes are Pergrine balancing and costing that ability as math-wise something is always going to be top of the pile and there is the possibilty of painting yourself into a design corner


Also I think for future release being careful about giving EPT' to pilots already in the 8+ PS range, by all means give them awesome baked in powers but let that be that, for example Miranda

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/11 14:34:23


"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

 Polonius wrote:
I know nothing about X-wing, but I do know that a lot of analysis of historical dogfighting shows that a handful of aces account for the vast majority of air-to-air kills. It's interesting to see that the metagame has shifted in the same way.


It's more that it's polarised.

Plebs are effective because they're cheap enough to be efficient choices, top aces are effective because they're the best.

We're then left with a slew of middle ground 'aces' that offer neither the efficacy of a low skill, high efficiency or the high skill high manoeuvrability/damage/durability of the best pilots.

While that no doubt reflects real world history, the design team have shown a real effort to try and render all options workable, and mid-range pilots really struggle right now as being caught between two stools, even in a less than competitive environment, but it's difficult to see a way to fix this.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/11 14:34:19


We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

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Toledo, OH

Well, pilot skills suffers from a pure bidding mechanic, in which any points paid for, say, PS6 are made worthless if your opponent has all PS7 or above.

That's simply a mechanic that encourages extremes, unless there is an exponential point cost for higher PS. Even then, what will usually happen is that a sweet spot develops.

It's not bad game design, but having a "bidding" stat that can be worthless a big chunk of the time requires a lot of care.
   
Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Bathing in elitist French expats fumes

I like the idea of representing specific squads and their tactics, the card could be linked to having a certain low PS unique pilot in play. Because he's low PS, the card would have to remain in play once he/she is quickly removed by higher skilled aces.

And for some reason, I just don't see TIE fighters as being that problematic. I think that their baked-in abilities work fine even if they are not high-PS.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And I wouldn't say the cost is exponential. You quickly go from a basic T70 at 24 pts to a PS10 dude at 32. Poe even has a fairly good ability to boot.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/11 15:25:44


 GamesWorkshop wrote:
And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!

 
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

I think that was Polonius' point. The cost for higher PS isn't exponentially higher, and that is what generates the issue.

The issues stem from a fundamental undervaluation of the PS stat, something that doesn't surprise me, as back in our early days of playing with a limited pool of ships and upgrades, I definitely felt PS was secondary to other factors, but as our skills as players and list builders grew, it became more and more important.


We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

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Made in ca
Regular Dakkanaut



Canada

It's too late to fix it now for existing ships, but what if they made the lowest PS generic have worse stats, like they did for the generic falcon pilot so that the mid level generic would be more than just +2-3 PS.

Also, >PS1/2 generics have the advantage of negating part of the predator bonus.
   
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Toledo, OH

 Azreal13 wrote:
I think that was Polonius' point. The cost for higher PS isn't exponentially higher, and that is what generates the issue.

The issues stem from a fundamental undervaluation of the PS stat, something that doesn't surprise me, as back in our early days of playing with a limited pool of ships and upgrades, I definitely felt PS was secondary to other factors, but as our skills as players and list builders grew, it became more and more important.


Also, as the game expands, there are now tons of options exclusively at high pilot skills, compared to the beginning when there were only a handful of 9s and 10s.
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

Actually, there's only two PS9 pilots for each faction, and no 10s. In fact, as Dengar isn't out yet, only one PS9 for Scum.

But there are quite a few more 7 and 8s, and Veteran Instincts...

We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

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Toledo, OH

 Azreal13 wrote:
Actually, there's only two PS9 pilots for each faction, and no 10s. In fact, as Dengar isn't out yet, only one PS9 for Scum.

But there are quite a few more 7 and 8s, and Veteran Instincts...


My apologies. Is Veteran Instincts unique, or can multiple pilots have it?

I like the idea somebody had about "squadron rules" where everybody gets a bonus, but they're keyed to what we'll generously call "team players," meaning the mid level PS characters.

More broadly, given how big the game is now, it's probably a bit inevitable that some things fall through the cracks. Even in well balanced games like Warmachine, there are huge numbers of casters that never see competitive play.
   
Made in gb
The Daemon Possessing Fulgrim's Body





Devon, UK

Nope, VI isn't unique, and only costs one point.

It does come at the cost of using the pilot's talent slot, but in most cases the ships that commonly are given it are packing a solid native ability already.

I agree it's inevitable that some options will become less often seen competitively than others, although FFG have been good about revisiting lesser used options or fixing things that later developments have harmed/invalidated, but right now mid skill pilots can be tough to use in even friendly pick up games, unless both players happen to have gone for some in each list.

Heck, one could even bring in a third game format, Standard for tournaments and competitive play, Epic for all the big stuff and Enhanced with a variety of themed and pre-set list structures that give global effects or bonuses.


We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark

The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox

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Toledo, OH

I guess the question is this: is high pilot skill enough of an advantage, based on the core mechanics, that high PS is worth even more than it currently costs? Meaning, is PS currently undercosted, or is it simply baked into the mechanics as being amazing.

I think back to plasma guns in 40k, which for years and years were the default choice, because they were simply amazing, and there are only so many slots. They weren't undercosted, they simply allowed a unit to best handle a quirk of the rules system (high saves).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/11 18:40:42


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Minneapolis, MN

 Azreal13 wrote:
I think that was Polonius' point. The cost for higher PS isn't exponentially higher, and that is what generates the issue.

Yep, that's the core point. PS5-6 needs to be much closer in point values to the PS4 generics, who are the only things they can out-fly. In a meta where PS7-9 is so common, they pay extra points for PS that does them no good. And PS1-2 ships have a significant price advantage, and are chosen with the assumption that they'll be moving first. PS5-6 only has an advantage over the veteran generics, who are not commonly taken anyhow (crack swarms are about the only common ones).

It's not all terrible. Biggs, IG-88, Kenkirk, Vessery, Echo, Deathrain, Dark Curse, Chewbacca, Blount, Palob (and a few that are missing)... all of these PS5-6 pilots are usable, some even at the highest levels. And that's because they're reasonably priced, and have strong abilities that are useful if you're moving first/shooting last.

But we're definitely building up a cruft of non-useful pilots in this game, and an awful lot of them are those mid-PS dudes. Without re-pricing everything, I don't know if they'll ever be relevant.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/11 19:02:54


 
   
Made in us
Ragin' Ork Dreadnought




Monarchy of TBD

What about a card similar to that TIE that lets other people use his epic pilot talent that allows only pilots of the same skill to act in a more coordinated manner? Call it 'fly casual', or something along those lines. Then, let it be used to loan or clone pilot skills across people with the same skill.

It wouldn't be useful for swarms, because 1s have nothing to share. It wouldn't be useful for elites, because they don't have the bodies to take advantage of it. But the middles would gain some flexibility and tricks as well as a plethora of new synergy.

Of course, there would also be the possiblity of that guy who lets Corran share an epic alpha strike.

Klawz-Ramming is a subset of citrus fruit?
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Made in ca
Fixture of Dakka





Bathing in elitist French expats fumes

Again. Sleep lost.

This is an example of what I was thinking about: Dantel's bombers.

When you field Nera Dantels And Dagger Squadron B-Wings, each B-wing gets a free (debate amongst yourselves) a) extra munition b)proton torpedo.

It's stil very marginal. But it'll give interesting builds. I know, B-wings are far from bad ships, so maybe my example isn't the best, but you get the gist of it.

 GamesWorkshop wrote:
And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!

 
   
Made in ca
Huge Hierodule






Outflanking

New idea- an EPT called "Underdog". When attacking or defending against a pilot with greater PS than you, you may re-roll any blank dice. Make it fairly cheap. Doesn't help Aces, but does increase the jousting efficiency of mid-PS guys vs other aces. Against generics, your Boost/Barrel Roll ability helps you instead. Caveat here is that a lot of the Mid-level aces also suffer from a lack of the EPT slot.

Q: What do you call a Dinosaur Handpuppet?

A: A Maniraptor 
   
Made in ca
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Bathing in elitist French expats fumes

But that card is going to become an auto-take with even low PS generics, which we sorta agreed don't need fixing.

 GamesWorkshop wrote:
And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!

 
   
 
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