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With the help of you guys at the end of last year I put into production my 1500 point Tau list, however my local competitive meta is now changing from 1500 to 1850 points. So I thought Id ask you guys for advice on what I can add to keep forcing the greater good down the throats of my enemies.

This is the edited and updated list:

Hunter Contingent

HQ
Commander, Drone Controller, 2x Missile Pod, Target Lock, Neuroweb system Jammer

Elite
3x Man Battlesuit unit, Fusion Blaster/Plasma Rifle, Target Lock, x2 Marker Drone

Fast Attack
4x Marker Drone
4x Pathfinder Team

Troops
5x Strike Team
5x Strike Team
5x Strike Team

Heavy Support
XV88 Broadside Battlesuits, HYMP, TWSMS, EWO
XV88 Broadside Battlesuits, HYMP, TWSMS, EWO


Fomations:

OSC
XV95 Ghostkeel Cyclic Ion Raker, EWO, VT, Twin-linked Fusion Blaster
XV95 Ghostkeel Cyclic Ion Raker, Target Lock, VT, Twin-linked Fusion Blaster
x3 XV25 Stealth Battlesuits, x2 Burst Cannon, Fusion Blaster
x3 XV25 Stealth Battlesuits, x2 Burst Cannon, Fusion Blaster

Riptide Wing
XV104 Riptide Stims, VT, Heavy Burst Cannon, Twin-linked Smart Missile System,
XV104 Riptide EWO, Ion Accelerator, Twin-linked Fusion Blaster
XV104 Riptide EWO, Ion Accelerator, Twin-linked Fusion Blaster

1850 exactly

Adding a CAD to get an ethereal in there is not a bad move considering you have a bunch of firewarrior squads.

I don't think you have enough DS units to need the 'vre beacon upgrades.. drop those and keep that firewarrior squad.

Personally I would keep the Firebase as you had it, you only get bonuses when you combine them, so keep them small. You don't want to overkill your targets (those are shots that could have been somewhere else). Take those 2 extra broadsides and put them with your Hunter Cadre unit.

Or.. don't take the 2 extra broadsides and consider running another crisis team. Maybe make both teams plasma/fusion for TEQ and Tank hunting.

Additionally, the kroot is good for outflanking some back objectives and just being in the way.

Looks good overall!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just thought of something, and I need to check the rules on the firebase formation.

If you added a broadside to each squad with target locks.. it might allow you to gain the +1 BS and tank hunter bonuses and target something else on the field. That would be a decent approach.

If taking the Hunter Contigent why no buffmander? I would drop the CAD and the extra FW squad. For me the Mont'ka Drone Net is the best ML source available though with no Stormsurge you don't really need them as everything should be twinlinked ignoring cover anyway.

Change the commander for a buffmander and give him a Missilesuit to hang out with. Then use the spare points to get missiledrones and target locks on the Riptides.

I would also drop the FBSC push the Riptide into the Hunter Cadre and get more another Ghostkeel give this give both EWOs one a target lock the other a VT. A Ghostkeel is far better at AA than a Riptide. The Ghostkeels work best in 3s so I would like to see you find room for a third.

Thanks For the replies guys

Grizzyzz wrote:Adding a CAD to get an ethereal in there is not a bad move considering you have a bunch of firewarrior squads.

I don't think you have enough DS units to need the 'vre beacon upgrades.. drop those and keep that firewarrior squad.

Personally I would keep the Firebase as you had it, you only get bonuses when you combine them, so keep them small. You don't want to overkill your targets (those are shots that could have been somewhere else). Take those 2 extra broadsides and put them with your Hunter Cadre unit.

Or.. don't take the 2 extra broadsides and consider running another crisis team. Maybe make both teams plasma/fusion for TEQ and Tank hunting.

Additionally, the kroot is good for outflanking some back objectives and just being in the way.

Looks good overall!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just thought of something, and I need to check the rules on the firebase formation.

If you added a broadside to each squad with target locks.. it might allow you to gain the +1 BS and tank hunter bonuses and target something else on the field. That would be a decent approach.

Thanks, I think your right about the dropping the beacons, I was more thinking for the fusion crisis squad but the extra bods are probably more worth while, would you say include the strike squad in the CAD for a rear objective holder or in the Contingent for the extra BS?

I thought the Kroot help cover a big weakness in the list in objective grabbers as they can outflank.

I looked up the broadsides with target lock idea but it says all models in the formation must fire at the same target unfortunately :/ I think I might just take your advice and run 2 Fusion/Plas squads instead.

FlingitNow wrote:If taking the Hunter Contigent why no buffmander? I would drop the CAD and the extra FW squad. For me the Mont'ka Drone Net is the best ML source available though with no Stormsurge you don't really need them as everything should be twinlinked ignoring cover anyway.

Change the commander for a buffmander and give him a Missilesuit to hang out with. Then use the spare points to get missiledrones and target locks on the Riptides.

I would also drop the FBSC push the Riptide into the Hunter Cadre and get more another Ghostkeel give this give both EWOs one a target lock the other a VT. A Ghostkeel is far better at AA than a Riptide. The Ghostkeels work best in 3s so I would like to see you find room for a third.

I'm not a fan of the Buffmander, I know the pro's are good I just prefer to be a bit more proactive with my commander.

I hear what your saying about the ghostkeel though, I hadnt thought about using them for anti air to be honest but I do like the idea of running them that way.


So taking bits from both of you how about the following changes to the 1850 list.

Dropping the fire base, adding the riptide into the normal formation and the two broadsides were added into the hunter cadre squad.
Added a 5 man pathfinder squad.
Added another ghostkeel to the stealth cadre both with cyclic ion rakers and fusion blasters, EWO and Velocity trackers.
Then the Ethreal and 2, 10 man kroot squads.

I wanted to fit in another strike squad and couldn't find the points, I also couldn't decide if I should run the 2nd ghostkeel or crisis squad.

Any other thoughts?

You don't like your whole army being twin linked, ignoring cover have having tank or monster hunter? Seriously the Buffmander is a no brainer in the Hunter Contingent.

Does he give the whole army them? I thought it was only the 3 or more units (including his own) that fired at the same target?

Exactly and you join the whole army into that attack and then use target locks to fire at what you want.

Owch, that's really brutal.

Well that is raw, however ITC ruled against it.. so it's your call I would discuss it with the opponent before using it raw.

Fbsc is good, however I think I would try to max the ghost keel or the riptide to 3 models so you can take a wing just pick the one you prefer both wings are awesome!

arthorn wrote:
Well that is raw, however ITC ruled against it.. so it's your call I would discuss it with the opponent before using it raw.

Fbsc is good, however I think I would try to max the ghost keel or the riptide to 3 models so you can take a wing just pick the one you prefer both wings are awesome!

It is also clear RaI. ITC have also ruled against multiple LoW unless you're an Imperial Knight special flower. ITC is just made up rules to nerf the armies the TOs don't play. The rule explicitly counts you as 1 unit. If you have 9 Crisis suits in 1 unit with a buffmander would they not all benefit? If they had target locks would they still benefit? So why is it different if those 9 crisis suits are permanently 1 unit or are just 1 unit for a shooting attack or are just 1 unit whilst the IC is attached?

This rule is not even remotely ambiguous and is entirely clear in how it works. Just because it is complex and powerful people try to jump on that complexity to try to cheat an advantage. ITC are known for following that pattern for armies they don't like.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ghostkeel wing is terrible OSC is miles and miles better and Ghostkeels get so much more useful when it is 3 in 1 unit due to holophoton counter measures. Whilst the Riptide wing can work okish Riptides in a Hunter Contingent are far better. Who needs Nova charges when you're twinlinked Bs5 ignoring cover with Tank/Monster Hunter as standard. Something you can't do with either wing.

 FlingitNow wrote:

arthorn wrote:
Well that is raw, however ITC ruled against it.. so it's your call I would discuss it with the opponent before using it raw.

Fbsc is good, however I think I would try to max the ghost keel or the riptide to 3 models so you can take a wing just pick the one you prefer both wings are awesome!

It is also clear RaI. ITC have also ruled against multiple LoW unless you're an Imperial Knight special flower. ITC is just made up rules to nerf the armies the TOs don't play. The rule explicitly counts you as 1 unit. If you have 9 Crisis suits in 1 unit with a buffmander would they not all benefit? If they had target locks would they still benefit? So why is it different if those 9 crisis suits are permanently 1 unit or are just 1 unit for a shooting attack or are just 1 unit whilst the IC is attached?

This rule is not even remotely ambiguous and is entirely clear in how it works. Just because it is complex and powerful people try to jump on that complexity to try to cheat an advantage. ITC are known for following that pattern for armies they don't like.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ghostkeel wing is terrible OSC is miles and miles better and Ghostkeels get so much more useful when it is 3 in 1 unit due to holophoton counter measures. Whilst the Riptide wing can work okish Riptides in a Hunter Contingent are far better. Who needs Nova charges when you're twinlinked Bs5 ignoring cover with Tank/Monster Hunter as standard. Something you can't do with either wing.

I don't think anyone is arguing its not how it works, it is just that it is extremely powerful and atleast for me.. leaves a bad taste in my mouth when I have used it RAW. RAI, honestly I think is it is a deathstar killer and was intended that your "combined fire" gave you buffs on the single unit you are shooting. I prefer this interpretation, it is still super good, but even my opponents haven't raged as hard on it.

I absolutely use the OSC every time, but my local players have realized the threat and have found ways to force me to CM and leave them vulnerable. I have found my ghostkeel do more work over the game not in the OSC then when they are. Which is why I run the wing now myself =)

RaI is clear, Tau being able to split fire has been their defining attribute since their first codex. Add to that they've worded MLs to stop the buffs working with models splitting off fire and we know 100% both that the design studio knew that you'd be able to split fire in a CF attack and knew how to word it so that the models splitting fire would not benefit. They chose not to there is absolutely no RaI support that this is not how it is intended to work. I personally think that Wraithknights should be 100 points more than they are and I think most people agree, yet no one in army list builds suggests someone should pay 395 points for their Wraithknight, or should pay the points for their razorbacks in a battle company Gladius, or pay for model upgrades in a War Convocation. Yet Tau get picked out all the time when RaI is abundantly clear.

By having 3 in one unit you get 3 uses of counter measures which should be enough time to deal with the enemy's ignore cover. Again the loss of CF ruins both wings.

Having looked at the rule I have to agree that's it's pretty clear that you count as one unit with all bonuses and such. However I must admit that I agree with Grizzyzz that for me personally it's a tad too.. competitive for my taste. I understand why others do and it has very clear bonuses but it's not for me. Also I can't be bothered with the out crys that will accompany it.

Any way if we could leave that aside what do you run in a Ghostkeel wing? I was thinking all with velocity trackers, one with EWO and the others with TL and all having rackers and fusion blasters.

fatbudda319 wrote:
Any way if we could leave that aside what do you run in a Ghostkeel wing? I was thinking all with velocity trackers, one with EWO and the others with TL and all having rackers and fusion blasters.

So the Ghostkeel wing is 3x units of ghostkeel, which
- Can't be overwatched on charge
- Confer stealth to units within 12"

For now, as I only have 3 ghost, I run 3x1 units with CIR, Burst cannons/FusionBlasters to taste, EWO, Stim. They are my front line brawlers that throw dice and charge at units to (A) tie them up (B) Actually take down (s6 ap2 is good). The overwatch bonus is great against other Tau opponents, where you cause Fear easy, can deal 1 or 2 wounds, and cause them to fallback and hopefully get swept since your drones are I4.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
For fun I want to run a 3x3 GhostWing formation. For 9 total ghost.. comes to 1170 base I believe.

But pretty crazy amount of offense. 9 s8 large blasts... plus secondaries. Could be fun =)

Grizzlyzz, you play ghost wing on 1850? With a fse or Hunter contigent?

If you're using them to charge stuff why not VRTs instead of stims? OSC is still the way to go.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Though if you're not planning on utilising CF effectively why even bother with the Hunter Contingent?

arthorn wrote:Grizzlyzz, you play ghost wing on 1850? With a fse or Hunter contigent?

I nearly always use the Dawn Blade now. Politically easier, still very good, and Usually take the Retribution core cause I am a suit fanatic XD

Ret ~1050 points
GWing ~450-500 depending on loadouts

And I toss in whatever else I want for flavor of the day to fill the Auxiliary tax. Or in 1500 I just take Retaliation and Ghost wing. o7

FlingitNow wrote:If you're using them to charge stuff why not VRTs instead of stims? OSC is still the way to go.

Great question! Stupid GW doesn't allow it =(

FlingitNow wrote:Though if you're not planning on utilising CF effectively why even bother with the Hunter Contingent?

Combining fire for markerlights alone is definitely an asset. The Hunter Cadre core is also much cheaper to bring then an effective Retaliation Cadre. In fact the Hunter Contingent may be cheaper to field over DBC.

Why even bother with a retaliation cadre and not just go CAD and whatever formations you want. Combined ML use is pretty minimal with your ML set up as you should saturate the key target with 4-5 MLs consistently. Particularly by dropping the Contingent he could get the Drone Net and get far more MLs with spread and interceptor.

Didn't even notice the dumb restriction on the VRT

I particularly like the bonuses you get from the retaliation. My play style though. By no means am I saying it's the best or only build.

You can easily toss in the drone net into my Ret+Wing in 1850.

CAD s are still very viable with objective secured and no more 3 man crisis restrictions!

Right ok guys so I've been toying with two similar 1.85k lists so I'm going to list them if you dont mind giving me your thoughts?

List one:
Hunter Contingent Detachment
Hunter Cadre

Command
Commander, Drone Controller, 2x Missile Pod, Target Lock, XV8-02 Crisis 'Iridium' Battlesuit

Elite
3x Man Battlesuit unit, Fusion Blaster/Plasma Rifle
XV95 Ghostkeel Cyclic Ion Raker, EWO, VT, Twin-linked Fusion Blaster

Fast Attack
4x Marker Drone
5x Pathfinder Team

Heavy Support
XV88 Broadside HYMP EVO
XV88 Broadside HYMP EVO
XV88 Broadside HYMP EVO

Troops
5x Strike Team
5x Strike Team
5x Strike Team

Auxiliary
Optimized Stealth Cadre
2x XV25 Stealth Battlesuits with Burst Cannon, 1x Stealth with Fusion Blaster
2x XV25 Stealth Battlesuits with Burst Cannon, 1x Stealth with Fusion Blaster
XV95 Ghostkeel Cyclic Ion Raker, EWO, VT, Twin-linked Fusion Blaster

Riptide Wing
XV104 Riptide EWO, Heavy Burst Cannon, Twin-linked Smart Missile System,
XV104 Riptide EWO, Ion Accelerator, Twin-linked Fusion Blaster
XV104 Riptide EWO, Ion Accelerator, Twin-linked Fusion Blaster

List two:
CAD

HQ
Ethreal
Commander, Drone Controller, 2x Missile Pod, Target Lock, XV8-02 Crisis 'Iridium' Battlesuit

Elite
3x Man Battlesuit unit, Fusion Blaster/Plasma Rifle

Fast Attack
4x Marker Drone
4x Pathfinder Team


Troops
10x Strike Team
10x Strike Team
10x Strike Team
10x Kroot Carnivores

Fomations:

Ghostkeel Wing
XV95 Ghostkeel Cyclic Ion Raker, EWO, VT, Twin-linked Fusion Blaster
XV95 Ghostkeel Cyclic Ion Raker, EWO, VT, Twin-linked Fusion Blaster
XV95 Ghostkeel Cyclic Ion Raker, EWO, Twin-linked Fusion Blaster

Riptide Wing
XV104 Riptide EWO, VT, Heavy Burst Cannon, Twin-linked Smart Missile System,
XV104 Riptide EWO, Ion Accelerator, Twin-linked Fusion Blaster
XV104 Riptide EWO, Ion Accelerator, Twin-linked Fusion Blaster

fatbudda319 wrote:

List one:

I would probably move the single ghost out of the hunter force and put it in your OSC with a target lock, you really only need 1 of those ghost to have a VT.

Like everything else. Maybe drop that pathfinder team for another squad of Firewarriors, or more drones to put with your commander, as those markers will be your primary click and destroy source. Especially with the riptide wing.

Another option is to put the VT on the heavy burst riptide. That is probably the best AA source that we have. s6 rending is the most consistent armor pen source and you have many shots available. Remember they get to Jink (unless you remove cover, i.e. markers, or the OSC)

fatbudda319 wrote:

List two:

Tauzilla! It is not a terrible build. Personally, I would try and amplify the use of the ghostwing, by running more troops that would benefit from the stealth bubble. In this setup I would definitely drop VT from the ghostkeel and give it to the burst riptide, as your not auto ignoring cover anyway, that is a better platform. With the ghostkeel and the riptide, I might even consider not bringing the Broadside team.. that's a lot of points that you could max out units of warriors with or another crisis team.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you haven't yet, check out my sig link to a guide I have been putting together! Any comments would be greatly appreciated!

@FlingItNow, if you want to add anything or find any mistakes, please post something! I am trying to compile all our tips from multiple posts together into one, so it is easy for new players to find =)

The only thing I'd say is the Ghostkeel is better AA in the OSC than the Burstide. Rear armour ignores cover and Bs4 as standard just up it. But I agree you only need 1 and agree with the changes you suggest.

I've updated the 2nd list and I must say I quite like the feel of it Then if I need to bump up to 2k I can drop a fire warrior and then add in a second Fusion/Plas Crisis team. Not sure if how well it'll work though? Lost of points tied up in those 2 formations.

P.S I shall check your guide out thanks.

Having now had a look it was helpful, I dont have Stims on my HBC Riptide, would you recommend trying to fit it on?

For your list two maybe switch the ethereal to a fire cadre, so you sont give a way a free victory point while still have a extra squad. I think you would benefit more from crisis. Choice for your aa riptide or ghost

The Ethreal was put in for the LD bubble that he gives with the added bonus of being able to choose from one of his abilities each turn.

I could drop the Ethreal, strike team and iridium on the commander and take Stims on the HBC Riptide and a 3 Man Crisis team with x2 Burst cannons. Or I could run a 2 man team with x2 Airbursting Fragmentation projectors as suggested in Grizzyzz guide suggests? That would free up 20 points for something?

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean in your last point.

So I came up with another variation of my list, really struggling to settle on a list that I'm happy with instead of making a new post I just thought I'd edit and update this one.

Looks good! No excessive upgrades, maybe a bit low on the crisis, than again its tauzila!!=)