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Anyone have a size comparison chart for the Battlemechs compared to 40K Titans?

I believe the Battletech mechs are rather small but I couldnt find a size comparison on the google.

Quick use of google pulled up a very rough estimate of between 7 and 12 meters depending on the design of the battlemech (Battletech mechs I assume). A warhound titan is like 15 meters so it is rather up their. A knight is like 9 meters so its roughly the size of most battlemechs.

I don't know about any charts, but here (courtesy of google) is a picture of the old Armorcast 28mm Vulture and Mad Cat Battlemech models with a Space Marine helpfully positioned between them.

http://www.dropshipcommand.com/images/GenCon2004/Diorama.jpg

I don't got any measurements on me but consider this, the protomech was the lightest possible class of mech, and this stand about as tall or higher then dreadnughts (that's just size, dreads are a lot beefier). The assault class mech comes to the size of a warhound titan (just going off memory of various picks). Though the size of mech have slightly changed between editions of battletech, the tallest they have ever been easily comes to titan class (warhound and knight). Again, I'm not an expert on the sizes of either battletech or 40k, but check out some wiki for sizes of assault mechs and the the various titans.

Pinning down the height of Battlemechs is almost as difficult as pinning down the height of Titans. Both companies hate the idea of giving fixed numbers, because it then sets a standard that they have to adhere to.

For example, Mechwarrior 3 puts the Atlas at 18 odd metres tall. Mechwarrior 4 puts it at 13m tall!

Gashrog's link looks right to me, though - but they're cast to 40k infantry scale, not 40k vehicle scale, so there may be some discrepancies with the rest of a collection!

According to the MWO forums, this comes from a DA era book called the Technology of destruction.
Phoenix Hawk 11m
Victor 14m
Atlas 13m
Black Hawk 9m
Black Knight 11m
Catapult 11m -12m to the top of the missile racks
Centurion 11m
Cougar 10m
Firestarter 10m
Hatchetman 11m
Locust 10m
Mad Cat III 11m
Mongoose II 10m
Shadow Cat II 11m
Spider 11m
Thor 11m -12m if you count the shoulder-mounted missile rack
Thunderbolt 12m
Uller 9m
Vulture 11m
Wolfhound 11m
Zeus 12m
Bushwacker just under 8m
Annihilator 12m
Legionnaire 12m

The largest Mechs are about 12-13 meters, an Imperial Knight is about 9 meters and a Warhound Scout Titan is 14 meters. Reavers are 22 meters, Warlords 40 meters and Emperors are between 43 and 100 meters depending on source. I'd expect Emperors to actually be around 80 meters (roughly doubling each previous Titans seems to be a pattern).

So the largest Titan is about 6-7 times bigger than the largest Mech.

I was pretty close. Atlas is about same hight of a warhound.
I was surprised this didn't turn into a which universe will kick the other universes trash like discusion...well, maybe it will.

How about it, battletecch vrs 40k. The conflict is over one world, the imperium sends their legions while a united innersphere sends theirs.

 Gashrog wrote:
I don't know about any charts, but here (courtesy of google) is a picture of the old Armorcast 28mm Vulture and Mad Cat Battlemech models with a Space Marine helpfully positioned between them.

http://www.dropshipcommand.com/images/GenCon2004/Diorama.jpg

Just for the record, the Armorcast Mad Cat and Vulture models in the pic are right around 8" tall depending on how you pose the legs. The 100 ton Atlas is 10.5" tall to the top of the head. 100 tons was the heaviest class of Mechs and the Atlas is on of the tallest.
More pics (and assembly instruction sheets) here in the old Armorcast BattleTech archive catalog page: http://timdp.members.sonic.net/battletech/

Tim

geargutz wrote:
How about it, battletecch vrs 40k. The conflict is over one world, the imperium sends their legions while a united innersphere sends theirs.

No.

Lol

geargutz wrote:
I was pretty close. Atlas is about same hight of a warhound.
I was surprised this didn't turn into a which universe will kick the other universes trash like discusion...well, maybe it will.

How about it, battletecch vrs 40k. The conflict is over one world, the imperium sends their legions while a united innersphere sends theirs.

how about we dont feed the flame bait

We already know how it would go, since the Clans wrecked the Inner Sphere by effectively being Astartes versus Imperial Knight supported Guard.

SJ

A well told story about first contact between Clans and Astartes could be interesting..........imo

I did once work out a Light Mech in 40K. Armour 12/12/10 with a twin Medium Pulse Laser (4 shot Lascannon) and an LRM 5 (5 shot Missile Launcher with an increased range) that was a 12" moving walker. It came to about 240+ points if I remember and it wrecked face. Admittedly it suffered from being a glass cannon but the speed and firepower of it really helped to augment my Guard.... Until it was glanced to death in turn 4.

Battlemechs range between seven and seventeen meters tall, and roughly 20 to 100 tons.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
We already know how it would go, since the Clans wrecked the Inner Sphere by effectively being Astartes versus Imperial Knight supported Guard.

Hate to give you this "spoiler", but... the clans lost.

 master of ordinance wrote:
Armour 12/12/10

Honestly? I think 'Mechs are a lot more durable than that. Even for a 20 ton light mech, it's very unlikely for a single shot of any particular weapon to take it down. Damage it, yes. But destroy it outright? Not likely.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
That said, 100t mechs could in fact destroy a 20t mech in one turn, through doing an alpha strike on them. 100t mechs are typically extremely well armed with a multitude of weapons that make titans look pretty lightly armed in comparison.

I mean, the Atlas for example, as the iconic 100t mech:

The Autocannon/20 is a short-ranged main cannon that would function as a titan killer, doing heavy damage every turn to anything it hits.

The LRM-20 fires 20 missiles in one turn and carries twelve salvos-- and can function as artillery, homing on its targets from extreme range with indirect fire. Even assuming they have only the stats of an infantry-carried krak missile (which is pushing their firepower WAY down IMO), this is potentially game-breaking on its own.

The SRM-6 hits harder than the LRM-20, but has shorter range and no indirect fire ability-- and fires six shots per salvo, with six salvos total.

And the four medium lasers are each roughly equivalent to a lascannon, capable of destroying light tanks in a single shot and definitely damaging heavier ones.

All these weapons can be fired at any number of targets in front of the Atlas.



It wouldn't take a 100t battlemech to take down a titan though. Take the Shadow Cat. 2 extended range medium lasers are not that threatening to a titan, but its Gauss Rifle makes Tau rail weaponry look downright pathetic, firing a 250 pound ferro-nickel slug at extremely high velocity, which makes even the superheavy rail weaponry of the Tau look like a children's toy in comparison-- and from extremely long range, as well. The 45t Shadow Cat would have the firepower to damage or even destroy heavy titans relatively quickly, and it's a mere heavy scout mech (albeit an exceptional one).

The Clans didn't lose based on performance or tactics or gear. They lost because their culture was fragmented and filled with honor rules. Their initial incursion via the Wolf's Dragoons provided the Clans more than enough intel to push straight through to Terra. However, the Clans were stalled by their own honor system from a single battle again a prepared opponent willing to cheat that honor system. This allowed a generation to catch up in technology, and to use the Clans' stupid honor system against them for a victory 30 years after the Clans were originally stopped.

I started playing BattleTech at age 12 and into my early 40's, 40k hit the US when I was 14.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
They lost because their culture was fragmented and filled with honor rules.

So... like Space Marines, then.

 Melissia wrote:

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
They lost because their culture was fragmented and filled with honor rules.

So... like Space Marines, then.

Also add in long supply lines while carrying little gear, too few warriors to do any good and no understanding of warfare. Well, yes, that's exactly like Space Marines. ;-)

Though the setting actually did show some of it, unlike Space Marine absurdity. Clan Ghost Bear got so irritated at constant uprisings (that probably cost it quite a lot) that they threatened with orbital bombardment on occupied planets. Clan Smoke Jaguar actually did it, and was later completely destroyed in retaliation. Too few, too weak, ultimately irrelevant.

Back on topic, the thing about 40k titans is that 40k is an infantry-scale setting, so 40k titans are exceptional and unstoppably powerful according to the setting.

But Battletech is a Titan-scale setting. Battles iwth hundreds of titans involved on either side is an astounding event in 40k. In Battletech? It's Tuesday. Even a light skirmish in Battletech often involves a dozen 'mechs at least, plus anti-titan tank support. Battletech commanders have a lot more experience in titan-on-titan combat than 40k commanders do. Where 40k wins out is naval combat. Battletech naval vessels are impressive, but I still feel that 40k ones are better. This may just be ignorance of Battletech naval assets, though, but in general 40k's naval assets are ridiculously enormous.

Actually, BattleTech started off with a single lance of four Mechs defendibg entire worlds in ritualized combat outside of developed areas. MechWarriors were treated as knights, while their Mechs were seen as their armor and steed. Then came the 4th Succession War, the finding of the Grey Death data core, and the Clan invasion. The scale of battle shot up by several orders of magnitude.

40k started off with millions of soliders supported by thousands of Marines with all of their tanks, aircraft and battle armor fighting over one world out of thousand of worlds. Each conflict in 40k is an epic saga of mighty warriors and the scions of demigods clashing over not territory and resources, but philosophy and alien gods.

Inperial Knights and the Astra Militarum are a better 40k analogs to BattleTech than Titan Legions, although the Clans as similar enough in concept to Astastes to be a direct ripoff.

No xenos in BattleTech, though.

SJ

 Melissia wrote:

100t mechs are typically extremely well armed with a multitude of weapons that make titans look pretty lightly armed in comparison.

Number of weapons is not the same as weapon effectiveness.

40K titans are MUCH heavier - a warhound which is roughly the same size as a 100 tonne battlemech is around 400 tonnes. This would imply much more armour (and lets not forget void shields).

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

100t mechs are typically extremely well armed with a multitude of weapons that make titans look pretty lightly armed in comparison.

Number of weapons is not the same as weapon effectiveness.

40K titans are MUCH heavier - a warhound which is roughly the same size as a 100 tonne battlemech is around 400 tonnes. This would imply much more armour (and lets not forget void shields).

However Mechs carry superior firepower and have heavier armour. They also have better tech including stealth systems and electronic warfare suites.

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

100t mechs are typically extremely well armed with a multitude of weapons that make titans look pretty lightly armed in comparison.

Number of weapons is not the same as weapon effectiveness.

40K titans are MUCH heavier - a warhound which is roughly the same size as a 100 tonne battlemech is around 400 tonnes. This would imply much more armour (and lets not forget void shields).

However Mechs carry superior firepower and have heavier armour. They also have better tech including stealth systems and electronic warfare suites.

What are you basing the "heavier armour" on when the smallest titan is 4x the weight of assault mechs (and void shielded)?

Weapon effectiveness is extremely difficult to compare given that we have extremely few examples of those weapons being used against something that is comparable across the two settings (like rock faces) and those occasions are generally of narrative importance making them unreliable.

I'm also not sure that stealth and EWS are especially important when you're 4x the size and 10x the weight of an Atlas (in a medium size titan - imperators are dramatically larger again).

 master of ordinance wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

100t mechs are typically extremely well armed with a multitude of weapons that make titans look pretty lightly armed in comparison.

Number of weapons is not the same as weapon effectiveness.

40K titans are MUCH heavier - a warhound which is roughly the same size as a 100 tonne battlemech is around 400 tonnes. This would imply much more armour (and lets not forget void shields).

However Mechs carry superior firepower and have heavier armour. They also have better tech including stealth systems and electronic warfare suites.

Better tech? 40k Titans have void shields that dump any incoming projectile into an alternate dimension, they have incredibly advanced sensors and their AI systems are so advanced that a Titan is almost a sentient being. That beats primitive electronic warfare systems any day of the week.

 Scott-S6 wrote:
Number of weapons is not the same as weapon effectiveness.

Nor is it the same as weapon ineffectiveness.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
void shields

On that I agree-- void shields are definitely an advantage they have. I'm not sure I agree with the assertion of armor, however. HEavier, maybe, but not necessarily better. Especially for the best of Battletech armor technology, the best armor is actually lighter.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Better tech? 40k Titans have void shields that dump any incoming projectile into an alternate dimension

That's... not how void shields work. They lessen the energy of incoming projectiles, not necessarily the projectiles themselves.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
they have incredibly advanced sensors

Which I would assert are downright primitive compared to that of scout 'mechs

 Iron_Captain wrote:
primitive electronic warfare systems

... describes the Imperium's EW systems. The ones in Battletech are very sophisticated.

I would say the armour is the same. Mechs are built of metals designed to withstand the onslaught of other mech weapons. So an assult mech is probably 14, 14, 12 with 8 to 12 hp. Some titans have advantage due to b voidshields, but generally there's more mechs on a battlefield then titans, weight of fire will prove victories over voidshields.

Unless there's been a retcon that I've missed I have a hard time accepting that Battlemech armour is all that great, it used to be a case of quantity over quality, to the point where even small arms could damage it, yet the most powerful anti-mech weaponry took massed volleys to have any effect.

geargutz wrote:
I would say the armour is the same. Mechs are built of metals designed to withstand the onslaught of other mech weapons. So an assult mech is probably 14, 14, 12 with 8 to 12 hp. Some titans have advantage due to b voidshields, but generally there's more mechs on a battlefield then titans, weight of fire will prove victories over voidshields.

A 15 ton Mech would have around 3 HP.

An Assault would be a Super Heavy with around 18+ structure points depending on the weight of the chassis.

I would also like to take this point to laugh at anyone trying to assert that Titans have better or more advanced tech than Battlemechs. A Light Mech in the late Succession Wars has better sensors, electronic warfare and communications technology.
As for weapons, well let us take the Medium Laser as an example. This weapon is roughly the equivalent/slightly better than the Lascannon except it has a longer range. And these are a simple, far less advanced weapon. We have missile launchers which can have 20 missiles airborne and running at any given moment and cannons that are built to take out armoured fortifications in a single blast. Particle cannons that rip puny vehicles to shreds in a shot and then we have the artillery....
Mech portable missile launchers which fire massive warheads (think an upsized manticore) at targets beyond the horizon range, heavy cannons which can fire anti mech rounds with an insane amount of accuracy to allow them to peg targets several horizons off.....
If it where not for their Void Shields Titans would be smashed aside in an instant.

Also, that heavy armour is no good when your opponent is smaller and faster than you and is on your 6 chewing through your rear armour.

Again, as I pointed out, Knights are a closer analog to Mechs than Titans are (although Colossals are pretty much Titans). Mechs just exibit more variation in design and loadout than current Knights.

SJ

 master of ordinance wrote:

As for weapons, well let us take the Medium Laser as an example. This weapon is roughly the equivalent/slightly better than the Lascannon except it has a longer range.

Erm. Battletech has a stated game scale of 30 metres her hex, both the Medium Laser and the AC/20 have a maximum range of 9 hexes, which gives a maximum effective range of 270 metres..