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I'm thinking of starting a Khorne chaos daemon army and just wanted to know the pros and cons of the going with Khorne

Thanks guys

If you want to run all Khorne, go with the Khorne Daemonkin codex. It's way better than the Chaos Daemons codex for Khorne.

In the CD codex,

Pros: cheap Daemon upgrades for Daemon princes and Soul Grinders, gets things like furious charge and rage

Cons: outside of the Bloodthirster and Flesh Hounds, most of the units are very squishy, slow to assault, and lack any real survivability.

Trust me, KDK codex is the way to go. It gives you options for a cool Chaos Space Marines/Daemons force and its actually fairly competitive.

 jreilly89 wrote:
If you want to run all Khorne, go with the Khorne Daemonkin codex. It's way better than the Chaos Daemons codex for Khorne.

In the CD codex,

Pros: cheap Daemon upgrades for Daemon princes and Soul Grinders, gets things like furious charge and rage

Cons: outside of the Bloodthirster and Flesh Hounds, most of the units are very squishy, slow to assault, and lack any real survivability.

Trust me, KDK codex is the way to go. It gives you options for a cool Chaos Space Marines/Daemons force and its actually fairly competitive.

I'd say it's more of an even trade really... Daemonkin gives you a couple of good formations, plus the Bloodtithe system, whereas Codex Daemons gives you much more bad*** characters + unit champs and way better relics.

Khorne's Daemons probably miss the various Rewards tables the most of any of the four flavours of daemons.

Experiment 626 wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
If you want to run all Khorne, go with the Khorne Daemonkin codex. It's way better than the Chaos Daemons codex for Khorne.

In the CD codex,

Pros: cheap Daemon upgrades for Daemon princes and Soul Grinders, gets things like furious charge and rage

Cons: outside of the Bloodthirster and Flesh Hounds, most of the units are very squishy, slow to assault, and lack any real survivability.

Trust me, KDK codex is the way to go. It gives you options for a cool Chaos Space Marines/Daemons force and its actually fairly competitive.

I'd say it's more of an even trade really... Daemonkin gives you a couple of good formations, plus the Bloodtithe system, whereas Codex Daemons gives you much more bad*** characters + unit champs and way better relics.

Khorne's Daemons probably miss the various Rewards tables the most of any of the four flavours of daemons.

Eh, Bloodcrushers and Bloodletters are relatively worthless in the current Daemons codex. Daemonkin at least lets you get the Bloodtithe points

Daemonkin also has two benefits most people overlook:

1.) No warpstorm bullcrap or Instabilty. You get straight-up Fearless.

2.) Blood letters come in minimum squads of 8 rather than 10, meaning if you want to spend a little less on minimum troop choices, you can squeeze a little bit of points here.

With that said, KDK also has a few other benefits and drawbacks. If I remember, KDK daemon princes are not shifted to the HS slot if you have a Thirster, so flying circus is out (I don't have the book with me so do correct me if I'm wrong). You also lose the Axe of Khorne on the Herald I think and you can't get 4 Heralds for 1 slot.

On the flip side, the new relic Armor is absolutely evil on a Daemon Prince, the ability to get a free BT on a relic Axe of Khorne just because your character dies is also awesome, and of course everything with the bloodtithe mechanic means that your unit's fragility can actually be used to your favour instead of being a straight up handicap.

The warp storm is good though

 CrownAxe wrote:
The warp storm is good though

It CAN be good. I've also had several games where it straight up cost me the game through bad rolls. Nothing like Daemonic instability to feth you over.

 jreilly89 wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
The warp storm is good though

It CAN be good. I've also had several games where it straight up cost me the game through bad rolls. Nothing like Daemonic instability to feth you over.

The bad results on the warp storm table are both low odds and easily mitigated

 jreilly89 wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
If you want to run all Khorne, go with the Khorne Daemonkin codex. It's way better than the Chaos Daemons codex for Khorne.

In the CD codex,

Pros: cheap Daemon upgrades for Daemon princes and Soul Grinders, gets things like furious charge and rage

Cons: outside of the Bloodthirster and Flesh Hounds, most of the units are very squishy, slow to assault, and lack any real survivability.

Trust me, KDK codex is the way to go. It gives you options for a cool Chaos Space Marines/Daemons force and its actually fairly competitive.

I'd say it's more of an even trade really... Daemonkin gives you a couple of good formations, plus the Bloodtithe system, whereas Codex Daemons gives you much more bad*** characters + unit champs and way better relics.

Khorne's Daemons probably miss the various Rewards tables the most of any of the four flavours of daemons.

Eh, Bloodcrushers and Bloodletters are relatively worthless in the current Daemons codex. Daemonkin at least lets you get the Bloodtithe points

Throw Karanak into the mix to lead a unit of 'Crushers, and suddenly you have a T1 charge possibilities thanks to Scout!

MSU 'Letters are still useable under the Daemon codex, especially coming in from Reserves through Instrument tagging + Icons in behind your main push... They can sit around and camp Objectives, and/or clean up stragglers your big hitters can't be bothered with.

Khornekin is still the most "competitive" simply thanks to certain Formations, but Codex Daemons is still a decently fun way to run things as a change of pace. Nor is it the levels of dying rodent turd that CSM's are at.

You can't charge on their first turn if you scout.

The best way to do Khorne Daemons is a main detachment of KDK (CAD or Bloodtithe formation thing) and a Chaos Daemon allie. You can run Fearless Flesh Hounds from the KDK, yet get more character options from the Daemon codex.

The only downside to doing this is that Heralds and units from the different books cannot mix. Only units with Instability can join units with Instability, meaning the Fearless ones from KDK can't join and vice versa.

Really, though, this is only the optimal choice if you want some of the options from the CD book: he greater rewards can make a Bloodthirster really hard to kill, and Grimiore can be used on any "Daemon", not just those form the CD book.

If you don't want those options, go with all KDK.

 CrownAxe wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
The warp storm is good though

It CAN be good. I've also had several games where it straight up cost me the game through bad rolls. Nothing like Daemonic instability to feth you over.

The bad results on the warp storm table are both low odds and easily mitigated

Iffy. Outside of the one Warlord Trait and Fateweaver, there's no way to reroll it. Also, your Warpstorm shooting attacks can kill your own units. I've had the Nurgle on kill a damaged squad of Pink Horrors and give my opponent First Blood.

Sure, that's a worst case scenario, but saying the Warp Storm is good is just folly. The Warp is a fickle mistress.

Chaos instruments allow you to reroll the dice to see if your units are affected by the Warpstorm no?

Also if you really Wants Chaos Deamons, you can always use a detachement of Chaos Deamons and an allied Gorepack Formation.

But yeah Khorne only Chaos Deamons, outside of KDK is meh at best, a whole army bare for the Soulgrinders and Skull cannons that do nothing until they are in CC, while everything is on foot bare for Hounds and Crushers, is not ideal, plus the Deamon of Khorne rule us really the weakest of all the Deamons of X rules, Furious charge, while helpfull is hardly good compared to Slaanesh deamons that have Rend, +3" on run and charge and Nurgle's shrouded or Tzeentch reroll saves of 1's.

Add in the Instability...

Only good point of a Chaos Deamon army is 4 Heralds and Gifts, if you don't care for those, then simply run a full Deamon army in a KDK detachement, all deamons are fearless, and you can have army wide FnP wich greatly helps.

 jreilly89 wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
The warp storm is good though

It CAN be good. I've also had several games where it straight up cost me the game through bad rolls. Nothing like Daemonic instability to feth you over.

The bad results on the warp storm table are both low odds and easily mitigated

Iffy. Outside of the one Warlord Trait and Fateweaver, there's no way to reroll it. Also, your Warpstorm shooting attacks can kill your own units. I've had the Nurgle on kill a damaged squad of Pink Horrors and give my opponent First Blood.

Sure, that's a worst case scenario, but saying the Warp Storm is good is just folly. The Warp is a fickle mistress.

not worst case scenario, yesterday i played without fateweaver, 1st warp storm i roll 3 and my DP explode.... uhmmmm so played the full game with -355 pts

blackmage wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
The warp storm is good though

It CAN be good. I've also had several games where it straight up cost me the game through bad rolls. Nothing like Daemonic instability to feth you over.

The bad results on the warp storm table are both low odds and easily mitigated

Iffy. Outside of the one Warlord Trait and Fateweaver, there's no way to reroll it. Also, your Warpstorm shooting attacks can kill your own units. I've had the Nurgle on kill a damaged squad of Pink Horrors and give my opponent First Blood.

Sure, that's a worst case scenario, but saying the Warp Storm is good is just folly. The Warp is a fickle mistress.

not worst case scenario, yesterday i played without fateweaver, 1st warp storm i roll 3 and my DP explode.... uhmmmm so played the full game with -355 pts

Yep. On the other side, beat Necrons last week by rolling the +1 to every Daemons Invuln 3 times. Talk about luck.

blackmage wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:
The warp storm is good though

It CAN be good. I've also had several games where it straight up cost me the game through bad rolls. Nothing like Daemonic instability to feth you over.

The bad results on the warp storm table are both low odds and easily mitigated

Iffy. Outside of the one Warlord Trait and Fateweaver, there's no way to reroll it. Also, your Warpstorm shooting attacks can kill your own units. I've had the Nurgle on kill a damaged squad of Pink Horrors and give my opponent First Blood.

Sure, that's a worst case scenario, but saying the Warp Storm is good is just folly. The Warp is a fickle mistress.

not worst case scenario, yesterday i played without fateweaver, 1st warp storm i roll 3 and my DP explode.... uhmmmm so played the full game with -355 pts

This is why it's good to pay the 5pt upgrade for characters in your troop units if you don't take Fateweaver and you have a small number of really expensive characters e.g. a DP. If you did this already then it really was just bad luck. In my experience the warp storm helps more than it hinders when you mitigate the bad results as much as you can.

 jreilly89 wrote:

Iffy. Outside of the one Warlord Trait and Fateweaver, there's no way to reroll it. Also, your Warpstorm shooting attacks can kill your own units. I've had the Nurgle on kill a damaged squad of Pink Horrors and give my opponent First Blood.

Sure, that's a worst case scenario, but saying the Warp Storm is good is just folly. The Warp is a fickle mistress.

You don't need to reroll it. You can mitigate the 1/6 chance of bad results with list building

The 3 results targets any character with Demonic Instabilty. You can reduce the odds of hitting an actual useful character by taking the 5pt champions in your troop squads and some fast/elite units. Now if you had a big bad GD or prince they might explode, you take a couple champs and now you only blow up a 5pt chump like 2/3rds of the time. You also could take no characters with instabilty. You take Be'lakor (who has Fearless, not instability) and take no other characters and the 3 result has nothing to target.

And the 2 result is isn't even that bad. Sure it targets every daemon but you have a 83% of rolling 9 or less. That means most basic units only take 1-2 wounds (and probably take none) and you heralds and MCs barely take any damage. Its only bad if you do roll box cars, a 1/36 result. Also you can just take units without Instabilty (Be'lakor, Soul Grinders, other daemon vehicles)

Also just take Fateweaver. Automatically getting the reroll-warp storm Warlord trait makes your 1/6 chance of something bad happening a 1/36 chance of something bad happening.

 CrownAxe wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

Iffy. Outside of the one Warlord Trait and Fateweaver, there's no way to reroll it. Also, your Warpstorm shooting attacks can kill your own units. I've had the Nurgle on kill a damaged squad of Pink Horrors and give my opponent First Blood.

Sure, that's a worst case scenario, but saying the Warp Storm is good is just folly. The Warp is a fickle mistress.

You don't need to reroll it. You can mitigate the 1/6 chance of bad results with list building

The 3 results targets any character with Demonic Instabilty. You can reduce the odds of hitting an actual useful character by taking the 5pt champions in your troop squads and some fast/elite units. Now if you had a big bad GD or prince they might explode, you take a couple champs and now you only blow up a 5pt chump like 2/3rds of the time. You also could take no characters with instabilty. You take Be'lakor (who has Fearless, not instability) and take no other characters and the 3 result has nothing to target.

And the 2 result is isn't even that bad. Sure it targets every daemon but you have a 83% of rolling 9 or less. That means most basic units only take 1-2 wounds (and probably take none) and you heralds and MCs barely take any damage. Its only bad if you do roll box cars, a 1/36 result. Also you can just take units without Instabilty (Be'lakor, Soul Grinders, other daemon vehicles)

Also just take Fateweaver. Automatically getting the reroll-warp storm Warlord trait makes your 1/6 chance of something bad happening a 1/36 chance of something bad happening.

So, either take Fateweaver, take a dataslate champion, or waste points on character upgrades? That sounds like bad game design.

 jreilly89 wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:

Iffy. Outside of the one Warlord Trait and Fateweaver, there's no way to reroll it. Also, your Warpstorm shooting attacks can kill your own units. I've had the Nurgle on kill a damaged squad of Pink Horrors and give my opponent First Blood.

Sure, that's a worst case scenario, but saying the Warp Storm is good is just folly. The Warp is a fickle mistress.

You don't need to reroll it. You can mitigate the 1/6 chance of bad results with list building

The 3 results targets any character with Demonic Instabilty. You can reduce the odds of hitting an actual useful character by taking the 5pt champions in your troop squads and some fast/elite units. Now if you had a big bad GD or prince they might explode, you take a couple champs and now you only blow up a 5pt chump like 2/3rds of the time. You also could take no characters with instabilty. You take Be'lakor (who has Fearless, not instability) and take no other characters and the 3 result has nothing to target.

And the 2 result is isn't even that bad. Sure it targets every daemon but you have a 83% of rolling 9 or less. That means most basic units only take 1-2 wounds (and probably take none) and you heralds and MCs barely take any damage. Its only bad if you do roll box cars, a 1/36 result. Also you can just take units without Instabilty (Be'lakor, Soul Grinders, other daemon vehicles)

Also just take Fateweaver. Automatically getting the reroll-warp storm Warlord trait makes your 1/6 chance of something bad happening a 1/36 chance of something bad happening.

So, either take Fateweaver, take a dataslate champion, or waste points on character upgrades? That sounds like bad game design.

It doesn't sound like wasted points on those upgrades to me.

Fateweaver is a Tzeentch Daemon so that would kill the entire point of taking a mono-khorne army.

Same technically goes for Be'Lakor too. As for vehicles, KDK has more Daemon Engines since they have access to Forge Fiends and whatnot, rather than just the Soul Grinder.

Character upgrades adds up. And KDK Bloodletter squads are actually cheaper because of the smaller minimum squad size.

Finally, All of those are needed to mitigate the Warp Storm Table, while if you just take the KDK, not only are you free from all of those, but also gain the Bloodtithe mechanic. In essence you're trading a drawback for a boon.