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As the title says. Many thanks guys.

White Scars.

Deschenus Maximus wrote:
White Scars.

All around, not bike orientated.

Ultramarines or Imperial Fists are good starts

Hit And Run universally is still amazing. Your Sternguard and Centurions won't be held up in combat.

If your Sternguard and Centurians are locked in combat, they are probably dead.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:


All around, not bike orientated.

White Scars, still. Not only are bike Scars great, but Khan-enabled full Gladius is just dirty.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

Deschenus Maximus wrote:
White Scars.

All around, not bike orientated.

Ultramarines or Imperial Fists are good starts

Even Tactical Scars in Rhinos are better than most other chapters. Hit and Run makes tarpitting them hard to do. Scars Grav Cents can just check right out of combat on the opponents turn, then blast away with their Grav Cannons and Hurricane Bolters on their turn. But Bikes are definitely the way to go for them, especially with Khan. Their specialized super formation is kinda ho-hum.

Raven Guard are really cool now too with their formations. I even run the Raptor wing with mine. Their chapter tactics are kinda crap, but they make up for it with stuff like T1 Assault out of Deep Strike.

Ultramarines and Fists are pretty basic. Ultras get the most out of the Gladius between the two since Fists reroll anyway. I am kinda hoping for an updated version of Sentinels of Terra with formations and formation detachments that really play to their strengths.

Salamanders are good, but really only if you take Vulcan to get MC melta.

Iron Hands are interesting because they are quite survivable. If you take them, definitely go with the Clan Raukhaan supplement for them.

Blood Ravens. No, seriously, its the Blood Ravens (If we are counting FW). They have the most versatile chapter tactics in the entire game.

White Scars are probably the best. I'd personally rank Ultramarines as second, followed by either Iron Hands or Imperial Fists.

The ability to hit and run, and scout with the Khan, cannot be undersold. The only thing that tilts Ultramarines to compete with the Scars is Tigurius, whom competes for top spot as the best Psyker imperial players can get. He is probably put over the top when he is in a conclave.

Red Scorpions aren't bad in a Gladius, if you are including Forge World. All of your tactical marine squads get feel no pain for free, since sergeants get to upgrade to apothecaries.

Outside of the Codex Space Marines, your next most powerful overal codex is Dark Angels. They have a few more viable builds than Space Wolves, whom have one very powerful list but suffers from being released in the early part of 7th.

Then there are the Blood Angels. Also known as Dantes Skitarii Taxi service...

I didn't really want to run many bikes if any to be honest so knowing that do you think white scars are the way to go or go for the ultramarines then?

Imperial Fists are actually pretty damn good re roll 1st with bolters including special ammo? Yes please add in tank hunter and +1 vs the building damage table due to siege masters.

munnster wrote:
I didn't really want to run many bikes if any to be honest so knowing that do you think white scars are the way to go or go for the ultramarines then?

Army wide Hit and Run is still godlike.

I run Crimson Fists but even I would say White Scars have the best chapter tactics. Ultramarines are a close 2nd if you want to run an infantry heavy list.

Crimson Fists (who use Imperial Fists doctrines) are nice situationally. I run las/missile on my Centurions to take advantage of the Tank Hunters, but if there is no enemy armor, then they aren't as good. The bolter reroll needs to be built into the list. I mean you need to include units who can use that ability. My double heavy bolter land speeder does not reroll 1's, but the heavy bolter attack bikes do.

Iron Hands are interesting because they are quite survivable. If you take them, definitely go with the Clan Raukhaan supplement for them.

Outside of the smash build they really aren't that survivable. The only other models that get any real benefit from the chapter tactics are t5 multi wound models (all of which tend to be pricey). With vehicle rules being what they are I can't really recommend dreadnoughts either (including Ironclads though that is the best choice if running them). If you are playing Iron Hands it is because you like the fluff which has been retconned out.

White Scars are probably the best. I'd personally rank Ultramarines as second, followed by either Iron Hands or Imperial Fists.

Definitely not Iron Hands. They are near the bottom of the list. They aren't Blood Angel bad, but they are bad. Other than that, I agree. White Scars are the best weather you are running bikes or not. Ultramarines are great for their versatility, but their rules just aren't as good as the White Scars. Imperial Fists are pretty good but not quite as good as Ultramarines.

Imperial fists. Take loads of bolter armed tac squads. Kill everything you come across in a hail of bolter fire...maybe...

White Scras due to Hit & Run. Great for a shooty army like Marines. Imperial Fists - reroll 1s with bolters is great and Tank Hunter on Devs and Dev Cents is also a great buff.

Looks like white scars would be good then with hit and run even though I don't want to run many bikes. Dev centurions with hit and run will be nice. I wanted to run some vanguard to as they look really cool with some stormtalons and a thunderfire cannon with tacticals and th/ss terminators and a dreadnought. Will white scars hit and run chapter tactics be of benefit to these other units?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also I don't really like the look of white marines plus find white a hard colour to shade and highlite so you think it would be frowned upon if I painted them all say blue? At least then if I want to run them as ultramarines so I can use some of their special characters I like the looks of I can.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As marneus calgar looks cool so if I paint them blue and want to use him then I can say their now ultramarines and not white scars?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Hit And Run universally is still amazing. Your Sternguard and Centurions won't be held up in combat.

+1 to this.

Hit and run is amazing. It lets your chapter master just bounce between combats smashing face where needed.
It lets your marines run out of combat, shoot their pistols at the enemy then charge right back in.

All the chapter tactics are good, but this is one of the best.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

munnster wrote:
I didn't really want to run many bikes if any to be honest so knowing that do you think white scars are the way to go or go for the ultramarines then?

Paint your marines white and blue so you can choose what chapter you want to be when you play. Try both.

munnster wrote:
Looks like white scars would be good then with hit and run even though I don't want to run many bikes. Dev centurions with hit and run will be nice. I wanted to run some vanguard to as they look really cool with some stormtalons and a thunderfire cannon with tacticals and th/ss terminators and a dreadnought. Will white scars hit and run chapter tactics be of benefit to these other units?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also I don't really like the look of white marines plus find white a hard colour to shade and highlite so you think it would be frowned upon if I painted them all say blue? At least then if I want to run them as ultramarines so I can use some of their special characters I like the looks of I can.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As marneus calgar looks cool so if I paint them blue and want to use him then I can say their now ultramarines and not white scars?

I would hope anyone you play with would not begrudge you for color preference. It is a game meant to also be a hobby, and I will be damned if I paint to fluff as if it was law. :-p My Iron Hands are all black and yellow... and despite occasional folks assuming they are a successor of Fists, I just clarify pre-game, and that's that.

It's actually one of the best thing about playing marines.

You can use BA, DA, or C:SM codex's with minor model changes.

Yep white scars. And I don't run a single bike.
Atsknf sometimes works against you by having a tactical or two protect an enemy from shooting during your turn. White scars can say nope to that.
Need to get some foot marines across the board quick for an objective or line breaker? Or maybe move a little to deny a maelstrom at the end of the opponent's turn? Get in combat with something on the way, then bounce 3d6 towards where you need to go.

In a very important tourney game I had an eldar player multiassault with a seer council against a dread and a few marines. He intentionally placed anyone who could hurt the dread near the marines before the charge. It ended up with a seer council locked with a dread that I wouldn't be able to shoot at with my culexus dropping in next turn.
...That is until the dread used hit and run, and the culexus plus everyone else around murdered the entire council on my turn.

Hit and run is one of the best rules in the game. Do NOT underestimate its usefulness.

And don't forget Army wide Scout if Khan is your Warlord. It helps your rhino based army position better after deployment.

Champion of Slaanesh wrote:
Imperial Fists are actually pretty damn good re roll 1st with bolters including special ammo? Yes please add in tank hunter and +1 vs the building damage table due to siege masters.

I love me some IF but it really locks you into a very small set of lists.

Completely vanilla would be ultra smurfs. as they have options when variables change.

all the other ones need specific lists to be used well, like IF and sternguard drop pods, or WS and bikes, and so and so.

Or be cool and do your own chapter so you can switch at will, or do a FW one as a bunch of those are cool

Imperial Fists need their own detachment that favors their tactics of digging in and mowing down anything that comes near them. I wish Sentinels of Terra would be updated the way Farsight Enclaves was with new formations and detachments. As of right now, Fists, especially Crimson Fists and their ObSec Sternguard, seem better off with a CAD than any of the other detachments.

 Desubot wrote:
all the other ones need specific lists to be used well, like IF and sternguard drop pods, or WS and bikes, and so and so.

WS needn't be locked into Bikes. My Gladius barely has any. Armywide Hit and Run and Scout on Rhinos and Razors is excellent.

Thanks for all the reply guys. I'm going to use the White scars chapter tactics with Khan for the scout move and paint them red as I like the colour and just give them white shoulder pads and helmets to show their still white scars. Although I said I didn't want many bikes even though I know their a good unit platform for getting special weapons around the board quickly I think I may include one unit as I know if my hq is mounted on a bike then bike units become a troop choice which seems good so I could have one tactical squad in a rhino or drop pod and a bike squad and I've then hit my 2 mandatory troops choices and hq already.

That sounds like a neat color scheme. I would recommend painting the Aquila on the chest white as well. You would end up with almost an inverted color scheme. You could even do the different markings they have that are normally in red, but do them in white.

munnster wrote:
Also I don't really like the look of white marines plus find white a hard colour to shade and highlite so you think it would be frowned upon if I painted them all say blue? At least then if I want to run them as ultramarines so I can use some of their special characters I like the looks of I can.

If you don't like the white, then I would just do them as a White Scars successor chapter, but as others have said, have sections of their armour that shows the link to the White Scars. You don't have to use a founding chapter specifically.

In answer to the thread, I agree with a lot of the others in that White Scars are the best vanilla chapter to play as. Even if you don't use bikes, the buffs they give to all their other stuff is totally worth it.

Make sure to pick up the white scars supplement. The hunters eye is worth the cost alone.

And you can paint them whatever details you want. Not all,successors follow their founder in traditions, and there are even some foundings with unknown Primarchs.

Really, only the people you don't want to play with will be persnickety about what chapter tactics you are using to your paint schemes.

I like to run Red Hunter tactics alongside my GK. Put my grav cents in the middle of the board and give them interceptor and sky fire the start of turn 2 and watch as flyers coming in from reserve have absolutely no where to go. The adamantium will rule helps as well against psychic heavy armies.

Besides that I would go with the white scars as well.