How do I use AdMech Ruststalkers and Infiltrators effectively

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**Dramagod2**

I have been struggling to find a way to include ruststalkers or infiltrators in my Mechanicus lists but every time I field them they die horrible deaths without usually accomplishing much. Even with their speed, I find I have trouble getting them into combat before they get shot up unless there is enough terrain where I can just hide them. Tack onto that their price and Im beginning to just write lists without them. The problem is that AdMech lacks variety as it is so I hate to right off another choice along with electro priests. Has anyone had serious success with these units? If so, what are you doing with them? Any insight would be incredibly appreciated. Thanks!

**DarthDiggler**

In a War Convocation they benefit from the Canticles, twice, for adding stealth and shrouding. This gives them a 4+ cover in the open and a 2+ cover in terrain. That is usually enough to keep them alive for what you need to do.

Another thought is to present to the enemy something(s) more threatening that requires their immediate attention. Imperial knights in their face or podding/deep striking units.

**Dramagod2**

I'm mostly looking for advice outside of the war convocation and without allies besides cult. Has anyone had any success fielding them that way? I've been thinking of using the infiltrators to outflank and actually saving them for a later game unit. That way by the time they hit the board I've already had a chance to whittle down the enemies defenses a bit. Plus it puts them in right on time for the CC doctrinas as I have found they don't benefit as much from the shooting ones as their guns are so so. IDK, the AdMech options are just so limited right now that I want to find a reason to take them and I'm having trouble justifying them as a wise strategic decision.

**the_Armyman**

New to AdMech, so take with a grain of salt, but it might be worthwhile to hold them back a bit and use them as a counter-assault unit. The thing is, you want to Scout them up and get them stuck in. But, then you're in the situation where you have to use Doctrina Imperatives that may actually gimp half of your army in an effort to buff the other half. Holding them back and being patient allows you to make efficient use of the Conqueror Imperatives later in the game.

My idea is to keep the Sicarians in cover and use the shooting DIs for the first couple turns, then bait the enemy a bit closer to where I can take advantage of the Sicarian's speed. Most people don't expect a 9" movememement followed by a potential 9+" charge. It creates an impressive threat bubble. It also allows your units to support each other with their respective debuffs: any unit charged by Dunestalkers and Vanguard (-1T), supported by the debuff of Infiltrators would be at a serious disadvantage.

**the_scotsman**

I have never effectively used Ruststalkers.

Infiltrators are frequently my MVP. Infiltrate them out of LOS, use them for board control your army desperately needs. I field them alongside a Culexus assassin as an anti-melee contingent and it works wonders.

**AncientSkarbrand**

Can't you attach a choppy IC that buffs durability and have him benefit from the dunestrider rule?

**the_scotsman**

Dune strider is by model I'm 99% sure. But if it's not, then by all means toss a nice character in there and rock n roll.

Other options might be like Smashfether, but you suffer from the "why am I not just using sm bikes" syndrome.

**AncientSkarbrand**

I was under the impression dunestrider is worded as a unit benefit, similar to flickerjump, but perhaps not.

**Carlson793**

It is indeed a unit level SR:
"A unit with this special rule adds 3" blah blah blah..."

**Dramagod2**

I don't know that I would play it that way though. I don't agree with that interpretation. Dunestrider is a unit special rule, "unit" special rules specifically don't confer to special characters unless the special rule allows itself to confer to units with at least one model with that rule. Without that distinction, the rules simply wouldn't confer, imo, as per pg166 BRB. I really feel like playing it otherwise is twisting the rules. Just my 2 cents.

**vipoid**

Dramagod2 wrote:
I don't know that I would play it that way though. I don't agree with that interpretation. Dunestrider is a unit special rule, "unit" special rules specifically don't confer to special characters unless the special rule allows itself to confer to units with at least one model with that rule. Without that distinction, the rules simply wouldn't confer, imo, as per pg166 BRB. I really feel like playing it otherwise is twisting the rules. Just my 2 cents.

I'd also be inclined towards that interpretation.

That said, I find it weird that we have two other (more specific) rules - "A unit containing at least one model with this special rule..." and "A unit comprised entirely of models with this special rule..."

It might be the case that this one works so long as the main body of the unit has the rule (where as the first one above allows a single character to grant it to an entire unit). But, that might be giving far too much credit to GW's writers.

**ultimentra**

If there is one unit in the War Convo I could ditch it would rust stalkers. As cool as they are, they really are rather lacklaster against most targets. They are there to push up the board really fast, look scary, and absorb fire. They absorb fire best by benefiting from War convocation's 2+ cover save when in cover.

**gdzilla**

I run war convocation and I would never trade out the ruststalkers or the infiltrarors. They have won me many games, they just have to be properly positioned, keep them out of range or vision of strength 6 ap 4 weapons, actually just anything s6 or higher. They can tank s5 and other guns with fnp. Ruststalkers are just so versitile, being able to take on any unit in combat and infiltrarors are great at dishing out tons of wounds.

**ultimentra**

If I could take a second squad of Infiltrators over Rust stalkers I would do it every time. Infiltrators' rules and weapons are just superior in every way. One squad with the Phase Taser and one squad with the Omniscient Mask.

**Kanluwen**

I kept trying to use them solely as an offensive unit and they failed miserably. They're too fragile.

But where they excel is a counterattack unit or a deterrent to keep people honest in objective play. People would not go after the objectives that Ruststalkers were lurking near, and they would do everything in their power to avoid the Infiltrators and their hiding spots.

**vipoid**

ultimentra wrote:
If I could take a second squad of Infiltrators over Rust stalkers I would do it every time. Infiltrators' rules and weapons are just superior in every way. One squad with the Phase Taser and one squad with the Omniscient Mask.

Sorry if this is a silly question, but what's so good about the Infiltrators' weapons/rules, compared to those of the Ruststalkers?

**Kanluwen**

vipoid wrote:
ultimentra wrote:
If I could take a second squad of Infiltrators over Rust stalkers I would do it every time. Infiltrators' rules and weapons are just superior in every way. One squad with the Phase Taser and one squad with the Omniscient Mask.

Sorry if this is a silly question, but what's so good about the Infiltrators' weapons/rules, compared to those of the Ruststalkers?

Infiltrators have a rule called "Neurostatic Aura" which makes all enemy models within 6" subtract 1 from their Weapon Skill, Ballistic Skill, Initiative and Leadership.

Additionally Infiltrators have Infiltrate and Stealth, being the only unit in the Skitarii book which has a Cover save enhancing rule(the Sydonian Dragoons "count as obscured, receiving a 5+ Cover Save"--not really the same thing, IMO) and the only unit that natively comes with Infiltrate. The basic profile for the Infiltrator is a Power Sword and an 18" S4 AP- Assault 3 weapon, which can be traded at no points cost for a Taser Goad(S+2 AP- Melee, Taser[To Hit rolls of a 6 cause 2 additional hits on the target]) and a Flechette Blaster(S2 AP- Burst Pistol(5 shots rather than one), Shred).

Ruststalkers get no aura or debuff, they just come standard with Furious Charge, Transonic Razor, Chordclaw, and Mindscrambler Grenades(with the option of replacing all that for 2x Transonic Blades).

Ruststalkers, when it comes down to it, are a bit less terrifying simply because they're strictly melee and they NEED that charge. But they're still T3 with a 4+/6+ and a 5+ FNP...which basically gets negated by anything.

**vipoid**

I see. Thanks for explaining that.

**Alcibiades**

Plus, Infiltrators with Taser Goads and Flechette Blasters do a jaw-dropping amount of damage.

**Kanluwen**

Alcibiades wrote:
Plus, Infiltrators with Taser Goads and Flechette Blasters do a jaw-dropping amount of damage.

They have the POTENTIAL to do that, in the right circumstances.

**ultimentra**

Kanluwen wrote:
Alcibiades wrote:
Plus, Infiltrators with Taser Goads and Flechette Blasters do a jaw-dropping amount of damage.

They have the POTENTIAL to do that, in the right circumstances.

I have ten+ games of war convocation under my belt, and that "potential" damage has always been higher than what my Rust Stalkers do. Infiltrators are the superior unit against 95% of targets. I can't think of any situation where I would rather have Rust Stalkers than Infiltrators besides fighting shooty terminators or something with a 2+ armor and a very crappy invuln save with few attacks.

**AstraVlad**

Ruststalkers are gods against anything with AV with their Haywire grenades and Hayware Dataspike attacks. With 8 Hayware attacks and Zealot they can glance to death everything up to the ImperialKnight in one fighting phase.

**ultimentra**

AstraVlad wrote:
Ruststalkers are gods against anything with AV with their Haywire grenades and Hayware Dataspike attacks. With 8 Hayware attacks and Zealot they can glance to death everything up to the ImperialKnight in one fighting phase.

I don't know where you're getting 8 haywire attacks from, to use a grenade you have to sacrifice all attacks to do just one. So max you will get 6 haywire attacks from a squad of five unless I am missing something.

**AstraVlad**

ultimentra wrote:

I don't know where you're getting 8 haywire attacks from, to use a grenade you have to sacrifice all attacks to do just one. So max you will get 6 haywire attacks from a squad of five unless I am missing something.

Let's count: we have 4 grenades at regular stalkers and 4 Dataspike attacks from Princeps (3 attacks base + 1 for charge, no bonus for second CCW because Dataspike is "Specialist Weapon").

**vipoid**

AstraVlad wrote:
ultimentra wrote:

I don't know where you're getting 8 haywire attacks from, to use a grenade you have to sacrifice all attacks to do just one. So max you will get 6 haywire attacks from a squad of five unless I am missing something.

Let's count: we have 4 grenades at regular stalkers and 4 Dataspike attacks from Princeps (3 attacks base + 1 for charge, no bonus for second CCW because Dataspike is "Specialist Weapon").

Isn't it 9 because the dataspike lets him make an extra attack at I10?

**AstraVlad**

vipoid wrote:

Isn't it 9 because the dataspike lets him make an extra attack at I10?

It seems to me you are right. Then it is even better than I thought

.

**Dantioch**

AstraVlad wrote:
vipoid wrote:

Isn't it 9 because the dataspike lets him make an extra attack at I10?

It seems to me you are right. Then it is even better than I thought .

So can you use the dataspike for your normal attacks? I always understood it as just the single attack at I10 from the dataspike and the rest of the princeps' attack are with a normal weapon or a grenade

**vipoid**

Dantioch wrote:

So can you use the dataspike for your normal attacks? I always understood it as just the single attack at I10 from the dataspike and the rest of the princeps' attack are with a normal weapon or a grenade

It has a standard weapon profile, and specifies that the I10 attack is an additional one.

I'm not even sure you can combine the data spike with other weapons, given the rules for using multiple weapons.

**AstraVlad**

Dantioch wrote:

So can you use the dataspike for your normal attacks? I always understood it as just the single attack at I10 from the dataspike and the rest of the princeps' attack are with a normal weapon or a grenade

It's just a regular weapon you can attack with. By the way you can only use 1 of the model's weapons in HtH: «If a model has more than one Melee weapon, he must choose which one to attack with when he comes to strike blows – he cannot mix and match the abilities of several different Melee weapons». (BRB)

And a little afterthought: a unit of Ruststalkers can use one of their grenades in shooting phase prior to the charge, so they will have a total of 10 (TEN!) Haywire attacks. With them you can be pretty sure to destroy EVERY tank in the game be it Heavy or SuperHeavy and have a good chance to glance an ImperialKnight or even Warhound Titan to death.

**the_Armyman**

Might be worth posting in YMDC, but as I understood it, the dataspike was a single attack--separate from other attacks the model makes (like a servo-arm)--at I10. I'm fairly certain it cannot be lumped into the total attacks the model makes for the purposes of gaining special abilities.