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As we don't have a thread for this yet, I thought I'd get the discussion going, and while this COULD go in the 40k tactics forum, I thought it appropriate to put it here, as it pertains more to the 30k players here on dakka. So, here is a thread of discussion tactics for playing 30k in\against 40k. I'll be here to help generate questions, and to create a list of the general consensus on the good, the bad and the ugly. My hope is to create a "tier-list" of sorts, looking at what makes each army good and bad in a competitive 40k environment.

So, to start, a question I find myself asking near constantly: Big Tactical Squads (probably with apothecaries,) or minimum squads in rhinos?

Max sized squads. They are hard for at least normal marines to deal with when you have more than one. We have a lot of nasty toys especially when going for mass fire to simply force saves. That vs horde armies is deadly. Maelstrom missions depending on your force are tough. Rarely do we have more units than the 40k opponent and when we do, we wont have the transports to move them.

Okay for max Squads, you gotta ask yourself How are you getting to your objective. Because you have four Ways. Spartan, assault claw, Storm Eagle, walking. They are much harder to kill yes, especially with a kitted Sergeant and Apothecary. But chances are you're foot slogging it. And they can put out some nasty fire.. 40 rapid. But again a bolter is a bolter so take that for what it is.

Min squads and Rhinos you have mobility. You're playing standard power armor in boxes. The biggest problem is transports and guys in transports (if I remember correctly don't quote me) aren't Scoring. So, gotta get out anyway. But it's still more mobility so keep that in mind when playing to the mission.

I've played one match so far of Mechanicum versus a DA Ravenwing/Deathwing combo list. I was having a heck of a time dealing with those 2+ rerollable jink saves until I was able to bring some Irrad Engines into play and get a Castillax into assault with the Land Speeders. The Irrad Engines quickly eliminated the bike squads due to AP3 and ignoring cover. I had to screen them inside a building though until the bikes got close enough.

Irrad Engines are very effective, and would also probably work great against Tau, Orks and AM. My Thanatar basically acted as an artillery platform, but 40k players seem to be intimidated by it and sent a Deathwing group to take it out but ate a AP2 large blast instead. Volkite works great, just for the sheer number of wounds it heaps on things. I imagine a Legion Support squad with volkite weapons would quickly erase other infantry. Likewise some of the specialist terminator squads can heap out as much firepower as anything in a Tau list. People might not expect to be outshot by large squads of marines backed up by legion artillery and terminators.

I have noticed that the sheer amount of ridiculousness available to 40k armies can make 30k cringe. Thunderwolf deathstars are very difficult to deal with, just as an example.

I am not keen on how playing against 40k armies forces you to cheese it up as far as you can take it.

Maybe in a year or two i'll enjoy the opportunity to empty the toybox guilt-free, but i prefer my games to be fluffy for now.

I like the idea of taking large tactical squads because thats part of the heresy thing for me, but when facing 40k lists i'm not sure that would work very well.

It all depends on what era you're playing in of course - if you can tempt them into the age of darkness where there aren't any formations and only troops can score objectives it levels the playing field a bit, but conversely shouldn't all of our stuff become scoring in the M41? and our troops choices should be obsec too right?

Pretty sure my red book says if you play 30k against 40k, use the scoring rules from 40k. I have also played 30k missions and rules against 40k armies. That seems to level the playing field more as forcing a 40k player to actually use troops is more fair than a 30k player getting their overcosted units to score.

From what I remember of the FaQ, and from seeing the opinions of the community here on dakka, it seems that the yes, troops (as well as anything with Implacable Advance) gains objective secured, meaning that 30k can potentially have even more obsec than a Gladius if built right.

What about using SA? I thought it's big weakness was the large amounts of 3+ saves in 30k. Wouldn't they have an easier time vs. 40k armies who typically have worse saves?

It all comes down to what points value you play, I made an identical force using 30k and 40k legions list and dark angels respectively, points was 1850, the Legion force was as a large disadvantage and completely lacked hw on the troop slots as well as atsknf, fearless characters etc.

Both lists contained a Spartan, 2 contemptors, doredo, leviathan, 2 tac squads and similar level liby (30k wins out here as mastery 3 beats the mastery 2 40k one)

 Chapter Master Angelos wrote:
Okay for max Squads, you gotta ask yourself How are you getting to your objective. Because you have four Ways. Spartan, assault claw, Storm Eagle, walking. They are much harder to kill yes, especially with a kitted Sergeant and Apothecary. But chances are you're foot slogging it. And they can put out some nasty fire.. 40 rapid. But again a bolter is a bolter so take that for what it is.

Min squads and Rhinos you have mobility. You're playing standard power armor in boxes. The biggest problem is transports and guys in transports (if I remember correctly don't quote me) aren't Scoring. So, gotta get out anyway. But it's still more mobility so keep that in mind when playing to the mission.

min squads in rhinos and you may as well play 40k space marines. 30k shines because of it's squad sizes and ability to specialize. Having played quite a few 30k v 40k games, larger blobs being given feel no pain shuts down a lot of the "current" meta of 40k.

additionally, since this is 30k, we shine at 2,500 not 1,850. We start out at a slight disadvantage, but that's mitigated by the fact that under the right circumstances, we can bring a lot more fire-power to bare. I don't think leaping straight into the 30k 'power units' (if you wanted to call them that) is the best idea. as a legion list: we can shut down drop pod list basically for free (through apothecaries). we have stupid high durability, and the numbers to tie up most larger creatures. If you bring the power units, you may as well cut the crap, and just bring 40k marines, because that's how you will end up having to play it: a bunch of smaller squads in transports backed by a stupid large model or two. As 30k, mix up the meta, bring something that's so simple most power lists have issue dealing with it, I've done it, and it's stupid funny when it works.

finally: Play fluffy, not cheesy. If you get to into bringing the cheese, you may as well not play 30k (as 40k can cheese better)