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Is it worth paying the points for a heavy weapon? It makes the squad less mobile if I want to fire it and would I not be better of just getting a cheaper rapid fire bolter and leaving the dedicated anti tank or anti armour to the dedicated units for it I.e devistator squad or centurion squad and leave the tacticals cheap and cheerful with maybe just a special weapon?

It can be worth it, but you have to use it right. Combat Squad with Sarge (Combi) and Special weapon in one CS, heavy weapon in the other.
Also note that you can move the rest of the squad and leave the heavy weapon stationary to fire with full BS.

Aside from that, I think Grav Cannons in Tacs can work really great.

Grav, yes, Heavy Flamers, absolutely, Heavy Bolters, sure if you play it right. Everything else? No. A flat no across the board. Heavy Bolters shine when you need that tiny bit of static in the middle of the game, where you have a good position and you're camping an Objective either inside or outside the Rhino and you're waiting for your next set of cards or the game to end to score points, then it's absolutely worth it to have three extra and better shots. Because you still can snap fire these three shots for a decent chance at getting a hit when you need to. It's not a complete waste even in the worst case.

But, if you need the points, Heavy weapons in Tacs should be some of the very first things to go. That's when you're ten points away from taking a whole other tank for instance.

Always take gravcannons (or heavy flamers if you play BA).

There is an opportunity cost to not taking a heavy weapon as some heavy weapons can punch things bolters (or even krak grenades) can't.

Normally this isn't an issue as you can just throw that (lets say for the sake of argument) missile launcher in a more dedicated squad, such as devastators. However, late game both sides will have taken losses and your opponent will have dealt with most of his primary targets. In this hypothetical situation you may have lost your devastators, he has a medium armoured vehicle with a single hull point on the other side of the board objective holding. Your tactical squad will have been largely ignored, maybe sustaining a couple of losses... at this point you will be wishing you spread your eggs a little more and spent just a few points to upgrade one of your remaining bolters into something a little more hard hitting.

Sometimes it’s nice to have a heavy downfield. Sure, you have to snapfire on the drop, but after that, you are fine. And with movement on a per model basis, you can have the heavy stand still while the squad wheels around him. The only one I’d not take on a tac squad is a PC, as you can’t snap those.

Mostly I stick with the lower cost ones, MMs and HBs. MLs only for tradition’s sake. I can see a point for grav, but haven’t put them in a list yet to try them.

There have been times where a spare heavy has swung the game. Often enough to warrant their inclusion? I think so. Plus I’m an old fashioned Ultramarine. If I don’t follow the dictates of the codex, who else will?

And the sergeant. Worth upgrading?

munnster wrote:
And the sergeant. Worth upgrading?

The stock answer is to give him a combi to match the squad’s special. Other options have their advocates (I often just run mine bare to save points).

I tend not to take heavy weapons on my Tacticals. They tend to slow them down or necessitate splitting them into combat squads. I tend to run 5-man squads in Razorbacks anyways, so a Heavy Weapon is a no go. The only exception is the Heavy Flamer for my Blood Angels Tacticals. They always pack one of those since it is a unique thing to them.

Sergeants get matching combi-weapons to special weapons. The most effective, IME, is the Melta or Plasma. Grav works best if you are stationary. Flamers are blah(unless it is tri or quad flamer Blood Angels)

munnster wrote:
And the sergeant. Worth upgrading?

Not generaly, in my experience. I always find other uses for those 10 pts.

I field my tactical squads in four ways.

1) A full squad, occupying the middle of the field, sometimes pressing forward to capturing objectives, sometimes hanging back to protect my firebase and counter attack enemies that get close. These squads always get a heavy weapon, either a Grav Cannon or a Heavy Bolter. Both weapons are ok shooting on the move, the Grav because it is salvo, the bolter because it has a lot of shots to get the snap fire hit and it is cheap so the loss in firepower doesn't hurt. The Grav Cannon is expensive but it makes the squad highly threatening against a wide range of targets so if I have the points I get it; if I need points I get the Heavy Bolter.

This is also the only kind of squad where the Sergeant gets a power fist; the other Sergeants get combi-weapons and maybe melta bombs.

2) A full squad to act as a speed bump, absorbing the attention of dangerous enemy units and giving me time to marshal forces for a counter attack. Sometimes I combat squad it if I need more board coverage or if 5 marine squads are a better counter to the enemy army. These squads get a Heavy Bolter, or sometimes nothing, as there role is to be cheap and die productively. Sometime the sergeant doesn't have any upgrades to keep the unit even cheaper.

3) A small squad in a Razorback, guarding a flank and zipping around the field to capture objectives. These squads never get a heavy weapon, as they need to move.

4) A flank guard unit, deterring the enemy from outflanking or Deep Striking or just generally protecting the firebase. This unit always has a heavy weapon, as they hang back and snipe at the enemy so a heavy weapon is the only way they'll engage. I usually give them a Plasma Cannon, as it has a very high value, very unreliable shot that is good against Deep Strikers, so the small squad that I don't expect much out of is the perfect place for it. Sometimes I take a Missile Launcher, as it has a long range and can often knock the last wound or hull point off of a target.

The type 3 and type 4 squads are often a full squad that I have combat squaded, as taking them as a full squad allows me to use them a type 2 squad in a pinch, albeit an expensive one.

I run a Salamander's Gladius which tends to mold my tactical set-ups a little differently than the usual player.

My 6 Tactical squads are kept simple:
5man: Flamer, C-Flamer
5man: Flamer. C-Flamer
5man: Melta, C-Melta, Meltabomb
5man: Melta, C-Melta, Meltabomb
5man: Melta, C-Melta, Meltabomb
5man: Melta, C-Melta, Meltabomb

Their loadouts are all designed to have specific jobs and they are all escorted by drop pods.

If I was running a Rhino-heavy White Scars it would look a little like this:

5man: Grav Cannon
5man: Grav Cannon
5man: Grav Cannon
5man: Grav Cannon
5man: Grav Cannon
5man: Grav Cannon

If points warranted it, I'd consider adding a C-grav on the sergs. White Scars get that free scout move 12" closer to maximize Grav range and shoot 24" the first turn. That helps tremendously.

Oh course a lot of people like the Razorback with Gladius and the 5man are usually next to naked. Or if they are feeling cheeky, they can equip a single long range Heavy weapon and sit outside of the Razors.

To sum it up, it really matters on how they are kitted and what roles they fill. Everyone throughout this post gave several examples, but in general, people seem to agree that Heavy Weapons aren't the best use of points. You really need to have a specific reason behind their use. (Ex: Grav Cannons with Scout and a firing hole from the Rhino)

It can be said to be worth it now that they have access to Grav Cannons. Salvo sucks, but there's nothing you can do about that except firing from your free Rhinos.

Otherwise, the inability to just take a second special weapon is always going to make Tactical Marines worse off than Grey Hunters.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
It can be said to be worth it now that they have access to Grav Cannons. Salvo sucks, but there's nothing you can do about that except firing from your free Rhinos.

Otherwise, the inability to just take a second special weapon is always going to make Tactical Marines worse off than Grey Hunters.

Agreed on your second point. I would much rather take two meltaguns or Plasmaguns rather than have the option to take a Heavy Weapon I will never use. Heavy Weapons are for Devastators.

I find that the heavy weapon is almost never worth it. Your paying not only for the weapon but 4 dudes who are just sitting there doing nothing. Most of the Heavy weapons don't go well with bolters.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
It can be said to be worth it now that they have access to Grav Cannons. Salvo sucks, but there's nothing you can do about that except firing from your free Rhinos.

Otherwise, the inability to just take a second special weapon is always going to make Tactical Marines worse off than Grey Hunters.

Agreed on your second point. I would much rather take two meltaguns or Plasmaguns rather than have the option to take a Heavy Weapon I will never use. Heavy Weapons are for Devastators.

See, I'm the complete opposite. With Gravcannons, I feel Tacticals are just superior to GH in almost all situations.

Deschenus Maximus wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
It can be said to be worth it now that they have access to Grav Cannons. Salvo sucks, but there's nothing you can do about that except firing from your free Rhinos.

Otherwise, the inability to just take a second special weapon is always going to make Tactical Marines worse off than Grey Hunters.

Agreed on your second point. I would much rather take two meltaguns or Plasmaguns rather than have the option to take a Heavy Weapon I will never use. Heavy Weapons are for Devastators.

See, I'm the complete opposite. With Gravcannons, I feel Tacticals are just superior to GH in almost all situations.

Just wait until GH get something like Helfrost rifles and man-portable Helfrost Cannons.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I find that the heavy weapon is almost never worth it. Your paying not only for the weapon but 4 dudes who are just sitting there doing nothing. Most of the Heavy weapons don't go well with bolters.

The issue is, bolters never really did anything anyway. Having a heavy/special weapon gives that squad an actual purpose. Usually troops are selected to fill mandatory requirements in a list or provide bodies for sitting on an objective. In that regard, the 4 mooks who you're also paying for can do that perfectly well without even needing the bolt gun.

I'd only really consider the multi-melta (cheap and ap1) or Grav-Cannon (self explanatory). Never tried plasma cannons myself, but the heavy bolter/Lascannon felt pretty lacklustre for their points.

I think if you don't have scout/infiltrate (so basically if you're running non white scars or forgeworld raptors), skipping the heavy is the way to go, as the good weapons are 24 range.

Always. If you're taking a Tactical Squad, it's so they can deal at least reasonably with a variety of targets.

Sometimes, if I do it I combat squad, but often put the points elsewhere. If im filling points that's when ill throw in heavies and give sargeants toys, otherwise I leave them bare and put hard hitters elsewhere.

I've been running the following Tacticals in a Pinion and it's been pretty successful when combined with the "Scout Support" rule(Ignores Cover on demand from the Scout Sergeant):
10 man squad, combat squadded
One section with the Sergeant and a Combi-Plasma and a Plasma Gun.
Second section with a Heavy Bolter.

While Heavy Bolters aren't exactly amazing by themselves--Ignores Cover Heavy Bolters that get Outflanked into a good spot are a pretty big annoyance for most people.

In a full squad combi-grav, grav and grav cannon is a nice combo...but I still have a soft spot for my five man squad at my board edge blasting away missiles

How does the triple grav perform? I've thought of running it but the range doesn't jive well and it doesn't seem that mobile.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
How does the triple grav perform? I've thought of running it but the range doesn't jive well and it doesn't seem that mobile.

It should work well. Not had a chance to get my squad like that on the field, but I like the way the numbers look.

Do you get tac squads into flamer range? I know I do, frequently. If you can do that, you can get grav in range. And when you stand still, you have more range to work with.

Plasma Cannons inside of Rhinos... Great ideas

Im going to go with either ML melta gun for my tac squads or HB flamer as im going full 10 man squads. Plus imho the marine book is probably strong enough that this could be a decnt army thats fluffy fun to play and reasonbly competitive but not WAAC or tournament level

munnster wrote:
And the sergeant. Worth upgrading?

If he has a pistol and power weapon, then yes for me since he is geared more towards a bit of fighting you want that extra attack. If he has a combi-weapon and just being used as an extra gun, then there isn't much point.


For me personally, I prefer a 5 man squad with special weapon and combi-weapon Sgt in a Razorback as I prefer my heavy weapons being fired from vehicles not infantry. For Blood Angels that is.

Well I'm going to run Raven guard chapter tactics and want quite a mobile army so I think I'm going to leave the heavy weapon out of the tactical squad and run it with a plasma gun and combi plasma on the sergeant. What are your opinions on plasma? A lot of people don't like it. I know those roll of a 1 can be frustrating but you still can get your armour save and compared to melta they still have a good range?

I use plasma all the time. I wouldn't bother with the combi.