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So, I'm curious about peoples opinions on the orks and what works in their codex? What diferent army types can you do? (Like Green Tide and Speed Freaks) And what units are good? What units are best avoided?

Boyz, lots and lots and lots of boyz (a ocean of boyz)

Best: Formations. There are several good ones. Mogroks Boss Boyz, Green Tide, Blitz Brigade and Bully boyz are all solid for building lists around.

Additionally Firgeworlds Zhardsnark makes a mean biker boy list, granting you troop Warbikes.

Not bad: Trukk based units like Min sized meganob squads, tankbusta squads, Eavy armor boyz squads work.

Also, Dakkajets/Blitza Bommers aren't bad flyers, Mek gun KMKs and Lobbas are good, and Deffcoptas are good.

Other than that it's a stretch. Go bully boyz+blitz for a pseudo Death Star build, green tide for well, green tide, and mass Trukk units with solo big Gunz and solo Deffcoptas for a MSU approach.

Are the formations in the Waaagh! Ghazghkull supplement..? I dont have that unfortunately..

They are but the rules are easy to obtain online or on battlescribe.

They're simple stuff like "5 Battlewagons, they all get scout."

the_scotsman wrote:
They are but the rules are easy to obtain online or on battlescribe.

They're simple stuff like "5 Battlewagons, they all get scout."

which sounds great but it's basically a 600 point delivery system for 5 units of Orks. and they can only assault on turn 2 because they scouted :(

For me Ork boyz work wonderfully because people do 1 of 2 things, either freak out and target them letting my expensive stuff get by or forget about them and then get assaulted by 20 ork boz dishing out 80 attacks

Beyond that, Warbikers with Nob PK, Mek Gunz, lootas, most other stuff is kind of hit or miss. A lot of people here like Meganobz but I haven't had very good luck with them. I find that a 5man unit of Nobz with 1-2 powerklaws works the same and is significantly cheaper.

The morgrok boss boyz is sanctum reach (a lot of ork formations from that book series).

Also Traktor guns from mekgunz are some of the best anti air in the game. Tankbusts are our cheapest and best anti tank.

Tankbustas are the real gem in the codex and are usally spammed in most lists. Meganobz, Warbikers, Lucky Stikk Warboss with Mega Armor, Mek Guns, and maybe Lootas make up the rest of the power options in the codex. The rest of the codex is somewhat decent but generally easy to kill which makes their effectiveness depend on terrain and what enemy your facing. For the most part the Walker units (possible exception for Deff Dreads in a Dread Mob) are considered horrible with little redeeming value.

 Vankraken wrote:
Tankbustas are the real gem in the codex and are usally spammed in most lists. Meganobz, Warbikers, Lucky Stikk Warboss with Mega Armor, Mek Guns, and maybe Lootas make up the rest of the power options in the codex. The rest of the codex is somewhat decent but generally easy to kill which makes their effectiveness depend on terrain and what enemy your facing. For the most part the Walker units (possible exception for Deff Dreads in a Dread Mob) are considered horrible with little redeeming value.

Lootas in Cover or the KFF. The 6+ hurts, but the mass shots is awesome, especially at 15 strong.

Dont count on green tide anymore. In my area eldar corsairs have become popular to counter thunderwolf and friends death stars. And you better believe they will throw 12 psychic dice, perils or no, at a chance to completely remove your green tide back into reserves. Thats instant game over.

the_scotsman wrote:
Best: Formations. There are several good ones. Mogroks Boss Boyz, Green Tide, Blitz Brigade and Bully boyz are all solid for building lists around.

This. Look for formations to build your army around whenever possible. Formations have nice advantages to help change the way your army plays.

For example, the Blitz Brigade combined with a CaD can easily allow all your boys to be riding in battle wagons.

This list is one example of that in action.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vankraken wrote:
Tankbustas are the real gem in the codex

If you took the Great Waaaagh Deathment, you could grab 4 squads of them and stick them in some of those battlewagons.

Bikers, thats it

MorkorpossiblyGork wrote:

which sounds great but it's basically a 600 point delivery system for 5 units of Orks. and they can only assault on turn 2 because they scouted :(

They cannot charge on player turn one. If you go second (e.g. always) you can charge with them on your first turn.

It basically works like this: only the battlewagons get the scout rule, the passengers aren't affected. Then, the formation restricts passengers from charging the first turn. The BRB clearly states that when it isn't stated otherwise, turn means player turn and not game turn.

However, it'll take half an hour to convince your opponent of that, so try to find that image floating around the internet which compiles all relevant rules.

You can't charge turn 1 after scout no matter who's going first.

 koooaei wrote:
You can't charge turn 1 after scout no matter who's going first.

Exactly, it all boils down to Orks getting some wicked cool stuff and rules and then Matt Ward comes up behind the guy writing the rule and says "my Ultra Marines might get hurt by this, make sure it looks cool but doesn't convey an actual advantage".

This still is a good formation, scouting 5 battle wagons with anything in them is still an advantage, combine that with getting a lucky master of ambush from dathonkinkap and most of your army is already 18 inches from the enemy lines (give or take a few inches). The closer the orks are to the enemy the better, less of a slog.

 koooaei wrote:
You can't charge turn 1 after scout no matter who's going first.

Good thing the battlewagons aren't charging anyone.

The passengers don't have scout, and there's nothing in the scout rules that forbids passengers in models with scout to charge on the first game turn.

MorkorpossiblyGork wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
You can't charge turn 1 after scout no matter who's going first.

Exactly, it all boils down to Orks getting some wicked cool stuff and rules and then Matt Ward comes up behind the guy writing the rule and says "my Ultra Marines might get hurt by this, make sure it looks cool but doesn't convey an actual advantage".

Matt Ward hasn't worked at GW for a long time. Don't blame the stupidity of Kelly and Cruddace on him when he had nothing to do with it.

You want Tank Bustas, Lots of them. They're awesome.

Honestly, nob bikers are awesome. I have been using them in almost every game since the new codex dropped and they have consistently been my armies MVP.

Also Battlewagons filled with 20 choppa boyz. nob (bosspole, powerklaw) is a mainstay.

I like the speed freaks builds, and with the exception of Lootas sitting in cover, everything in the army is in a vehicle or on a bike.

 Icculus wrote:
Honestly, nob bikers are awesome. I have been using them in almost every game since the new codex dropped and they have consistently been my armies MVP.

Also Battlewagons filled with 20 choppa boyz. nob (bosspole, powerklaw) is a mainstay.

I like the speed freaks builds, and with the exception of Lootas sitting in cover, everything in the army is in a vehicle or on a bike.

Nob Bikers are 45pts each, add in one powerklaw and a single bosspole and your looking at a 3man Biker nob squad costing around 164pts. For 165pts you can get 1Nob with BP/PK and 6 Warbikers totaling 33% more wounds and 133% MORE firepower. THAT is why Nob bikers suck.

Battlewagonz are hard to play right now against good opponents because they can easily get side armor and AV12 just doesn't hold up long against anything these days. Add to that the BW is open topped and an AP2 lascannon needs 4 to penetrate and a 5 to blow it up. Thats not even talking about melta or Eldar shenanigans with there AP0 Meltas (3+ blows your vehicle up.)

My mainstays for the Orks these days is Mek Gunz, Warbikers, Tank Bustas and either foot sloggin 30 boy units with Nob bp/pk or a couple units of trukk boyz in eavy armor with Nob Bp/PK.

Bikerz, in particular Nobz (either on their own or leading regular bikerz) the most reliable unit that orks can field. They're expensive as stated above, but in games with objectives their mobility is worth the points.

Warbosses are your all-purpose problem solvers. They're great with a blob of boyz to soak up wounds, they're great in mega-armor with a lucky stick to soak up wounds, they're great on a bike with T6. They're great with a powerklaw dishing out S10 hits at I1, they're great with a big choppa dishing out S8 hits on the charge at I4 (an underrated tactic against low initiative armies). They are the only generic L9 HQ, and I often run them in multiples and build my army around helping them assault the enemy.

Painboyz, on foot or on bikes they add a lot of resiliency.

Deffcoptaz, much like bikerz, really shine in games with objectives. They're reasonably costed jetbikes with T5, 2 wounds, can be fielded in MSU, and can harass enemies juuuust enough to be annoying.

Boyz, as mentioned by others, are the backbone of your army. Everything in the codex is geared around making them more survivable, distracting the enemy from shooting them, or using them as meat shields for nasty characters. Four attacks on the charge is no joke, and you can drown most units in dice if a squad makes a charge intact. Two shots per unit plus assault is also no joke if you give them guns. Unfortunately firepower in general has taken a step ahead of the boyz' ability to absorb it, but they're still OK at it. The safest route is usually to have them as meat shields for powerklaws, your most reliable source of high STR low AP damage, but if you know you'll need to chop through a blob of guardsmen or contest an objective long term they can do it.

Grotz are the unsung heroes of ork armies. When your entire army wants to charge forward, you can get an entire squad to hold a backfield objective for dirt cheap. They are also great for adding wounds to a shokk attack gun.

Dakkajets can put out a consistent amount of S6 shooting (by ork standards) for the cost. They're unreliable because of reserve rolls, but if your opponent has small backfield units that twelve bs3 str6 shots can disrupt they are useful.

My nob bikers rarely shoot. They turbo-boost fist turn for 3+ jink save and charge second turn destroying almost anything they meet. The shooting is okay, but why waste a super fast unit just to shoot? Take advantage of the speed and get in to close combat. 2W, T5, 3+ jink on turbo, 5+FNP, makes sure they get there.

Yes they cost a lot of points, but thats what a deathstar does. Costs a lot of points, but is a fast, hard-hitting force of destruction.

Warboss, PK, da lukky stikk, bp, warbike
Painboy, warbike
4 nob bikers, 2 PKs
total = 445
2 battlewagons w/ ram and a weapon and 40 choppa boyz w/ nob, PK, BP = 560

I usually play at 1850 or 2000 points. so that core is the first half of my army. I then include trukk units, including tankbustas, some extra boyz in a trukk, a dakkajet, sometimes some warbuggies or meganobz.

 Icculus wrote:
My nob bikers rarely shoot. They turbo-boost fist turn for 3+ jink save and charge second turn destroying almost anything they meet. The shooting is okay, but why waste a super fast unit just to shoot? Take advantage of the speed and get in to close combat. 2W, T5, 3+ jink on turbo, 5+FNP, makes sure they get there.

Yes they cost a lot of points, but thats what a deathstar does. Costs a lot of points, but is a fast, hard-hitting force of destruction.

Warboss, PK, da lukky stikk, bp, warbike
Painboy, warbike
4 nob bikers, 2 PKs
total = 445
2 battlewagons w/ ram and a weapon and 40 choppa boyz w/ nob, PK, BP = 560

I usually play at 1850 or 2000 points. so that core is the first half of my army. I then include trukk units, including tankbustas, some extra boyz in a trukk, a dakkajet, sometimes some warbuggies or meganobz.

Yes I understand that, but you could field twice as many bikers if you went with Warbikers with a single PK nob instead of fielding just nob bikers which cost more then twice as much. the shooting is more of a bonus, the wounds is not thats a must.

The biggest problem is your counting on them getting that 3+ jink save which to many armies now can just negate with AP4 weapons that ignore cover. Id rather have the model count to allocate more wounds to then a couple of slightly better warbikers that cost almost 3 times as much.

 matty78943 wrote:
Boyz, lots and lots and lots of boyz (a ocean of boyz)

Worst idea ever. This used to be good. So good in fact that the standard reply was "boyz before toys". The fact that nobody says this any more should be enough to know how viable this tactic is today.


Good things.
Da lucky stick -> Give it to a mega armour warbozz and have fun
Biker bozz with powerklaw -> Good speed T6 and and S10
Tank bustas -> cheap meltabombz and rokkits
Deffkopta's -> its cheap multi-purpose jetbike get the plastic one second hand
Loota's -> S7 Ap4 is all you need to know. Warning these things die quick put them in cover or in a battle wagon
Mek guns -> But only the Traktor beams, the ork plasma kannons and the lobba's. Note these things have an abysmal LD value you should really work around this. If you don't find a fix for it they will most kely run off the table once they lose 25%.
Looted wagons as transports -> I love the looted wagons as a transport but I am one of the only few who thinks that it is a good idea to let it devour your heavy slots or go unbound just to be able to field them.
Mega nobz -> Kinda ok but they lack an inv save and are really expensive.
Power klaws -> Way to expensive but sadly still one of our best weapons.
Boss sticks -> You wil need them


Things to avoid:
Deff rolla's -> used to be good but suck now
Red paint job -> same
Chucka stiacka upgrades for vehices -> This is the most useless upgrade ever since all your units that want to assault already have these things and even if they didn't have it you would still be I2 :\
Buggies -> Deffkopta's are better in every way.
Lots of boys with no transport -> most armies will just mow them down.
Mek guns with bubble chucka's and zapp gunz -> expensive and low random str horrible things.
mork and gorkanauts crppy walkers for the price of a decent lord of war in an other codex
looted wagons with the big gun upgrade -> Expensive open topped low armour value short ranged tank what could go wrong
Nobz -> Just to frail to be worth their points.

and the most important WARNING stay away from FW units that are from IA8 and dont trust any advice about them from a player that uses ITC rulings unless you play your games with their rules. To keep it simple FW has dumped that book but the ITC has embraced it and buffed the feth out of it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
General note: don't expect orks to be good. Good ork units are not bad at all ( in contrast to bad ork units), but they don't come close to good units from the newer codexes.

I run Blitz Brigades a lot and in general they either are incredibly difficult to crack open or get obliterated depending on what army your fighting. A lot of armies don't bring the tools to crack open that much AV14 and as long as they don't explode then they already did their job of delivering the Orks down the field. Its a good strategy but it definitely has its hard counters. With proper LoS blockers and terrain coverage you can use your 12" scout to adapt to enemy deployment and help keep your battlewagons alive. Its not the end all be all strategy for Orks but it is viable.

MorkorpossiblyGork wrote:

 Icculus wrote:
My nob bikers rarely shoot. They turbo-boost fist turn for 3+ jink save and charge second turn destroying almost anything they meet. The shooting is okay, but why waste a super fast unit just to shoot? Take advantage of the speed and get in to close combat. 2W, T5, 3+ jink on turbo, 5+FNP, makes sure they get there.

Yes they cost a lot of points, but thats what a deathstar does. Costs a lot of points, but is a fast, hard-hitting force of destruction.

Warboss, PK, da lukky stikk, bp, warbike
Painboy, warbike
4 nob bikers, 2 PKs
total = 445
2 battlewagons w/ ram and a weapon and 40 choppa boyz w/ nob, PK, BP = 560

I usually play at 1850 or 2000 points. so that core is the first half of my army. I then include trukk units, including tankbustas, some extra boyz in a trukk, a dakkajet, sometimes some warbuggies or meganobz.

Yes I understand that, but you could field twice as many bikers if you went with Warbikers with a single PK nob instead of fielding just nob bikers which cost more then twice as much. the shooting is more of a bonus, the wounds is not thats a must.

The biggest problem is your counting on them getting that 3+ jink save which to many armies now can just negate with AP4 weapons that ignore cover. Id rather have the model count to allocate more wounds to then a couple of slightly better warbikers that cost almost 3 times as much.

I am not sure why you say what my biggest problem is. These guys have been consistently my MVP. They are great. I end up losing 2 of them usually by the end of the game, but that's fine because those are the 2 that tank wounds. When I get in to combat I get 8 S9 ap2 attacks and then 5 S10 ap2 attacks from the warboss who can use DLS to reroll. I am telling you how my force has done and you are giving me hypothetical situations.

When I get in to combat I get 8 S9 ap2 attacks and then 5 S10 ap2 attacks from the....

The question isn't how killy you are once you reach combat .The real question is if you are ever able to reach it vs a shooting army.

Vs a real close combat army all orks die like well orks with no inv save and I2 or worse. Your I1 bike possy will just be evaporated by anything with decent close combat stats and at least ap4 weapons.

Your 6 model count 13 wound deathstar lacks an invul save and at best as a 3+ jink save with a 5+ FNP. You've also used 2 of your precious HQ choices in this point sink. For a similar amount of points you could take 3 units of Warbikers with a Nob BP/PK and 16 Warbikers spread between the 3 units. You get a helluva lot more bang for your buck with 3 units of warbikers then a single death star. And I don't know about your area but seriously? only 2 Nobz die in that unit every game? your either playing against new players who don't know whats going on or against the worst players in the region. I mean hell 1 turn of shooting with my army I would wipe that unit out and have effectively neutered your army.

What works for me:
Boyz on foot and boyz in trukks. They're not great any more but they can still do stuff. Haven't run boyz in wagonz cause i have no wagonz but i feel they can be fine. I often run at least one blob of boyz on foot and one squad of 'eavy armored boyz in a trukk. Both work fine.
Big gunz. Once again, the power creep phased them out a bit but lobbaz and kmk are still quite nice.
Lootaz. I'm not a fan of lootas but i must acklowledge that they work for us quite nicely.
Warbosses and painboyz are very important for a list full of boyz.
I also like wierdboyz but can't tell that they're extremely good. Just fine enough to use.
Voidshield Generator. It's great. Use it.
Koptas and min kommandoes with specials. They're fine for grabbing points and eating overwatch.
Meganobz and tankbustas are something i'm looking forward to fielding en masse. The thing is i'm mostly stuck with footslogging boyz and i don't think either of them fit this type of army. However, i'm moving away from massed boyz. Not because they don't work but because games are taking too long as they require you to be quite tactical and careful with positioning and there are simply tons of them.

A few units earn their points back...not always but more than 50% of the time. Meganobz, Tankbustas, Lobbas, Lootas, in that order. I finally have 3 trukks so I can make a partial trukk boy list, not played it yet but I think armored trukk boyz are good.