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A question that started in my group and I want to continue onto this board: if/when dark eldar are updated next, assuming things continue with the Decursion level of power, what would the codex need to work properly and be fun to play? This includes unit balance, new choices or old choices being brought back, or new models.

As an example: I hope that all the HQs that are generic gain all their options back. I have 2 haemonculi that have venom blades and liquifier guns, with fluffy tokens to denote the use of Clone Field. Now they aren't "rules legal", for no real reason besides the models not having those options. Likewise I want the Unique HQs to come back. I miss Mr Decapitator, and have had to use a herald of Slaanesh with permission to take the Infiltrate Warlord trait for it to be close

I really wish they would bring back the Duke and the Baron. Some of the coolest characters just up and vanished. But it's not like GW to bring back unique characters after they have taken them out.

We would probably see a lot more deepstriking benefits for them as well. I'd like to see a solid Hellions formations

Rebuild Wyches for scratch - they are highly skilled gladiators and close combat killers that are anything but in the stats. The "elite" versions are even more of a joke.

Basically go back to the Codex before and add in 7.5 Edition stuff.

Dark lances need a booster shot. There the primary anti tank weapon and a signature of the codex and as it stands the weapon kinda sucks.

Giving Dark Eldar more than 2 gun profiles would be a good start.

My issue with a new codex for Dark Eldar is this: The army is fun. It has things that it does well, it has things that it doesn't do so well, it has flavor, it has theme. In a bubble, Dark Eldar only need a few tweaks to individual units, and the army is right where it should be. The problem arises when you take them out of that bubble and compare Dark Eldar to the rest of the game.

Think of how much better Dark Eldar would be after a few fixes to problems in the core game:

-Night fighting is an afterthought. Dark Eldar fight well in the dark, which sounds great and full of flavor, but in reality it's next to useless. Half the time it's night on turn 1. That's it. What's that, 1/10 of the time on average? So on a 24 hour day in the 40k universe you get 2 hours of night. At the very least, give Dark Eldar a piece of wargear they can use once per game that creates night-fighting for the turn.

-Assault is awful. If you assault into cover, you get -2 inches to an already random charge range, you have to weather overwatch, and you strike last. This is just bad game design. Get rid of the initiative penalty for assaulting into cover and make assault grenades deny overwatch. It fixes a lot of issues with the game, and it helps Dark Eldar more than most.

-Ignores cover is way too powerful. The rule itself is fine, but the armies that have it seem to get it for free. If Tau markerlights were a weapon upgrade that strictly gave ignores cover (like tank hunter, monster hunter, or just about any other special rule in this game), there would be no problem, but for some reason ignoring cover in 40k always goes along with other special rules that make it 'auto include'. This helps out a lot of armies/units, but again, it helps DE more than most.

-Allies need inherent disadvantages. There is currently no disadvantage to taking an ally; it's simply a way to take the best units from 2 armies in one list, which makes it more powerful than a pure list by design.

-Formations need to go the way of the Dodo. I don't understand how any game developer can look at some of these decurion formations and think, "Yeah sure, this is healthy for the game." No casual list has a snowball's chance in hell against a formation that gives free units on top of other absurdly powerful benefits, and I don't think formations in general add anything to 40k. Detachments are fine, but they need to be a choice you weigh against taking a CAD and not an auto-include. For instance, Realspace Raiders give you a benefit in night-fighting and 2 more FA slots, but you lose OS. Perfect.

Now there are some issues in the core codex that need fixing: DE characters need to be better, splinter weapons need to be str3, a few units need stat adjustments, DE need more than 2 gun profiles, etc, but I don't think the codex needs a wholesale overhaul like I've heard a lot of players suggest. Dark Eldar have trouble standing up to a lot of the armies, sure, but a lot of that is the fault of inherent problems in the core rules. Treat the illness, not the symptom.

TL;DR - Dark Eldar are fine, the game needs fixing.

I want Vect back.

Wrath Knights

What?

You know they're coming.

I too think that Dark Eldar are mostly fine. The game does need changing on some level.

One thing that I would definitely change for the Dark Eldar though is allowing up to 3 Ravagers per HS slot.

I would also change combat drugs to not be random, and get rid of the useless ones. Maybe make it more akin to Admech level bonuses. Choose 1 drug per turn, but give an overdose rule if they choose the same drug.

Or make Wyches into the 40k Wardancers. Different fighting stances for different bonuses. That might make them more useful.

The Voidraven Bomber should have a StrD bomb.

Hellions fluff says they use their hellglave as a defensive weapon, spinning it around. Maybe give them a -1 to hit roll in combat or in the shooting phase.

An interesting thing to note is that I think that there Should be an artifact similar to what the necrons have (used to have?) That forced night fighting. Maybe have it be that it forces it turn one, 2+ turn two. 3+ turn 3, etc to keep it going. That rule was my main defense for foot sloggers before this new book, and I find it depressing that the new rules only allow one turn of night fighting max. Maybe make the new detacent make the whole game night fighting, but have something like Mandrakes be the required tax. That's my bias though, since I love me some mandrakes~

On a serious note: if the HQs had options in line with CW eldar what new choices would be added? For me I think having Scourge modifications would be the first addon. Maybe have a suicide switch option that causes a large blast pie plate if the HQ dies. Most importantly I think the option to have them onto jetbikes or the green goblin boards should be added.

I think stuff like the Corpse Thief Claw is a step in the right direction, so more of that.

Also as others have said things like useable Wyches and such would be great.

If the haemonculus had his old options back and the Grotesque and wrack models didn't cost FW prices I may have respected the release a bit more. Currently it was just a cash grab that nerfed a majority of the codex

I hear Corsairs is pretty good lol.

Nah but DE will get permanent night fighting as a Realspace Raiding Party bonus.

Night Fighting should be how it was in 6th. Was more fun that way.

The Assault phase needs to be tweaked. When the 2nd to last DE codex came out at my figs my wyches caused even khornzerkers to run. I liked the ptp rule. Overwatch just evaporates all of the careful movement into assault. This current codex made me mad enough to sell my ary I had been building through 3 coders. Bring back special characters and makemthe ICs the cc monsters they are supposed to be. Bump up venom transport to be in line wirh harliedex.

Give them a version of the banshee mask.

"Ignores 'Ignores Cover' " should be a thing.

 JimOnMars wrote:
"Ignores 'Ignores Cover' " should be a thing.

or make it so they can hide in cover so well they are actually invisible. Actually that would be pretty powerful, when DE vehicles jink, they are treated as invisible.

If you were to add a Gargantuan or Super Heavy LOW to the Dark Eldar, what do you see the model being like? Would it be a giant Coven monster? Would it be a Wych Cult beast? Would it be a huge skimmer, tank, transport?

I personally would like to see the Dais of Destruction built as a Super Heavy model with awesome tactical rules out the wazoo.

Don't Deldar have access to reaver titans? If so then there should be a monster of flesh straight from Bloodborne as a cult option. The dias would be rad, but I prefer an opposing faction so would never use the man xD

reevesshady wrote:

Hellions fluff says they use their hellglave as a defensive weapon, spinning it around. Maybe give them a -1 to hit roll in combat or in the shooting phase.

When Hellions were first created, they had a special rule that gave them a 5+ invul vs shooting. And that rule was called "Jinx". It's funny how Dark Eldar are responsible for some USRs (Lance & Turboboost come to mind), yet "Jink" isn't on the unit that had it first.

The Dark Eldar are the "codex of missed opportunies". For example: the Realspace Raiders detachment SHOULD have been "Always Night Fight Turn 1, all DE unit have Shroud during that turn", but instead they grant that silly 5+ cover for Troops, 6+ for all others non-sense. This simple change would not only be fluffy and fun, but would give DE a competitive standing amongst all but the most top-tier army lists.

WHY CAN"T ARCHONS TAKE JETBIKES??????? WWPs and dedicated Venoms are cool and all, but every "decent" CC unit in the codex is faster than an Archon. There is even a 2 page layout in the Codex about a Reaver Champion who made his way up the ranks to become an Archon. Does he just leave his bike In the garage now?

Yes, Ravagers should be a 1-3 squadron choice. Vect needs to be a chariot LoW choice a la Logan Grimnar

Archons should absolutely be able to take Reaver jet bikes. Succubus should be able to as well. I also think that Archons should be able to pay for a scourge upgrade and have wings.

I'm actually weirded out by Archons not having bikes or Hellion boards too. However it may be because Reaver Jetbikes and Hellion boards are things of the roughhousing hooligans, while Archons should be prim and proper.

In that case though I think Archons should be able to take a decked out Raider or even a chariot in the form of a Raider.

Also losing Vect because he didn't have an up-to-date model and then having GW announce that Logan Grimnar of all people is getting a santa sled is a kick square to the balls for Dark Eldar. To me it felt like the whole Finecast fiasco again (in the "you could have done this but you chose to do stupid" type feeling).

Bring back our characters and giving the generic Archon/Succubus/Haemonculus more options would be a good start. In fact, boost options for all units, at present Scourges and Reavers are our only units with a good spread of options.

Plasma grenades for all.

Give Wyches poison for their close combat weapons and at least Assault 2 base and WS5 (but not Haywire grenades all round, I found the idea of Wyches primary role being tank hunting a bit silly), maybe even a Banshee mask equivelant for an upgrade (though unless I'm charging flamers overwatch doesn't really bother me much) and specialist Wych weapons better.

Much better Warlord traits, at present the only ones worth anything are Labarynthine Cunning (re rolls for reserves, size the initiative and night fighting) and Towering Arrogance (12" Fearless bubble).

Move Wracks to troops, unless you're running a Coven list I can't see any reason why you would take Wracks over Incubi, Grotesques, Trueborn or even Mandrakes (and with a Coven list you'd be using the supplement anyway).

Make Demi Klaives worth while again (why do we have to pay 15pts to loose +1S and AP2?).

Mandrakes get their 5+ invuln back whilst keeping Stealth and Shrouded.

Jink for Hellions.

Cheaper Night Shields. Flicker Fields for all (especially flyers).

Give the Voidraven missiles stock at the current points cost, make the Shatterfield's S8 Heavy 1 and the Implosion's Larg blast.

Void Lances on Ravagers, and make them AP1.

Cronos is A5, has the spirit probe as standard as well as the syphon (without a points increase) and can still add the Vortex which is now S4 instead of 3. And a new rule so that for every wound it causes the FnP booster's range increases by 1".

I think I could go on, but thats enough depth for now.

DE will never be fixed as long as stats like I and WS are priced the same as stats like T and BS, when they hold immensely lower value (which is actively lowered by your opponents models)

DE have some units which are...trash.

DE have some units which are very functional.

Things that would make DE next edition good:

HQ options- Let succubus/archons take jetbikes

Venom blades- more options to take them

Wyches- return of Haywire grenades to unit. Wyche dodge becomes a 5++ all the time, 4++ anytime during assault.[including overwatch]

Squad sizes- certain squads need to go back to below 5 models minimum (trueborn/bloodbrides/wracks)

Transport- alternative to squad sizes, venoms need transport capacity 6. This and the above actually caused a gameplay shift that wasn't noticed at first for DE. previously DE could put a Haem in a trueborn unit for example, and they would start with FnP (on T3 its not great....) now you cannot do this, because the min squad size for trueborn is now 5 as opposed to 3. This meant the better and most commonly used transport option could no longer have an IC supporting a squad inside it. (outside of incubi..)

Incubi- They need plasma grenades, they are a dedicated assault unit that gets hampered by terrain and are supposed to be elite.

Hellions- Skyboard should be a jetbike, not a jump pack.

Decurion- 3 core choices. Kabal, Coven, Cult.

RSR- first turn of game has nightfighting always, if nightfighting is in place it lasts an additional turn. +1/-1 to reserves rolls.

Kabal Raiding party- archon, 2 warrior squads, 1 incubi or trueborn squad, and ravager or razorwing squad. [has current RSR bonus]
Coven- Haem, 1 grot squad, 2 wrack squads and cronos or talos squad. Unique PfP table, all units start 1 turn ahead and have +1 to fnp rolls.
Cult- Succ, 1 unit of bloodbrides, 2 units of wyches, 1 unit of reavers or beast masters. [Pick 1 wyche drug, all wyches get this drug + the drug you randomly rolled for, all units in this detachment can charge even if they ran in the shooting phase.

Ravagers- unit of 3 when firing at an unit has ignore cover as long as 3 ravagers in the unit.

Razorwings- unit of 3, when flying over non-vehicle units, causes hits as per the apoc version of same rule.

new wyche unit- heavy support slot. Antigrav chariot pulled by beasts with 2-3 wyche crew with weapons.

something like that.

Wyches should be WS5 and BS3. Maybe some purchasable Special Rules such as Rage or Shred or anything. The way they are right now, they are a tarpit unit, not a close combat one that can wipe out enemies.

Change all Plasma Grenade into Toxic Grenade at S1 AP5 Poison (4+).

Shadow Field becomes 4++ rerollable but you don't lose it anymore,

Desperate Allies with Eldar, Battle Brothers with Chaos Space Marines. feth alliance chart. feth whoever designed it.

Remove Lhamaen as an HQ for 25 pts.

Power From Pain is improved based on how many units on both sides are dead, not according to turn. Against an enemy with MSU, you can grab all the benefits very soon. This makes more sense instead of the Dark Eldar slapping themselves in the face every turn and growing stronger the more they do so.

Super-heavy or Gargantuan Monstrous Creature. The Dark Eldar used to have Tormentor Engine or something back in the old days. What happened to that?

Splinter Pistol for Incubi. Why removed this in the first place?

Why would dark eldar be allies with space marines. They hate chaos as much if not more than the craftworlds, fear Slannesh specifically and look down on humans generally. All three eldar being allies makes sense, they may not always like each other but they hate everyone else a lot more.

Wyches: how about WS5, BS3, 2 attacks base, and a SR that States "any roll to hit counts as AP2" to represent Wyches striking with precision at weakspots in enemy armour. Give them the option of getting a couple blast pistols per squad and they become a fairly decent, well-rounded unit.

I wish Lance was rewritten to give a +1 bonus when rolling on the vehicle damage chart. It would make Dark Lances a bit worse againt high AV but considerably better against AV 12 and lower.

Warriors should come with pistols so that they could still shoot and charge. Also, Warriors shouldhave access to all the specials, not just blasters and shredders.

Come up with a new HQ type that makes Reavers into Troops and another one for Hellions.

That's something don't get: where in the lore does it say dark eldar would ever ever ally with Craftworlds? They are like chaos with the imperium, total opposites that happen to share a species. Harlequins make sense obviously, and corsairs could be allies of convenience. Chaos doesn't make sense sure, just have to avoid Tyranid level where they get zero allies

I wonder if we'll see a proper DE codex this year. I'm really hoping to see a new dex come out and buff them back up and make em more interesting to play.

Gain Ancient Doom, just like eldar.

Real Space Raider: When determining damage from an exploded vehicle, use the initiative value instead of toughness when rolling to wound. Furthermore, models with this special rule also have the Skilled Rider special rule.

Can choose to start the game with Night fight rules.

Give actually useful artifacts instead of the complete trash we have now

More AP 2 close combat weaponry that I can actually take on an Archon

HQ have access to Jet bikes, Sky Boards and Scourge Wings

Give all the dedicated close combat units assault grenades. Why don't they have access to assault grenades?

Make Phantasm Grenade Launchers actual assault grenades again

Blood Brides have WS 5 and roll twice on the poison chart.

All Wyches gain Dodge against overwatch and rending attacks in close combat

Wracks moved to Core

Hellions moved to core and have 2 attacks base and access to assault grenades

Trueborn given ghost plate armour as standard

Razorwing and Voidraven gain vector dancer, stealth and armour 11.

Void Lances and Void mine are D weapons

Shredders gain the monofilament rule and shred (why don't they have shred?) and are now flamer templates

Venoms are now 6 passenger capacity

Raiders are now 12 passenger capacity

Web way portal can be placed anywhere on the board, any unit arriving from reserves may use it and you can assault out of it.

I'm sure theres more stuff. Words can't describe how bad this codex is. I can't believe they released it, hopefully the new one has a little bit of life to it.