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Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

Something of a random note, but I'd quite like a customisable Mandrake HQ for DE.

I am of course entirely unbiased.

Spoiler:



 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Didn't they have a Mandrake special character before lopping his entry off?

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Didn't they have a Mandrake special character before lopping his entry off?


I was actually thinking more in terms of a non-SC Mandrake HQ. But to answer your question: yes they did - Kheradruakh . He was generally considered the worst HQ in the game. Possibly the worst unit in the game.

Basically a T3 character with just a 5++ for protection (no EW), who couldn't join squads. He also had the Lictor deployment method - i.e. when he arrived from reserve he could be placed anywhere on the table... but couldn't actually assault. You'll notice that this is not likely to improve the survival rating of a T3 model who needs to be in melee to do anything. You could maybe put him behind cover or something and hope to assault something next turn, but you're really hoping that nothing can see him even after moving. Plus, since he only has a 6" move, all your opponent has to do is move away.

In melee he was okay but nothing amazing. WS6 I6, 5 S5 power weapon attacks on the charge (I think he caused ID on 6s). It doesn't seem too bad... until you remember that combat is literally all he has. Also bear in mind that this guy is suppose to hunt characters. Yeah, good luck with that.

The thing he, he could still have been tolerable. I mean, if he cost about 50-60pts, say, then he might be fun as a throwaway HQ (like a, crappy melee version of Marbo). Did I mention that he cost 140pts? Because he cost 140pts. As an idea, a 5th edition Archon with Huskblade, Shadowfield and Soul Trap was only 135pts. He had better WS and I, more attacks, could join units, had a 2++ save and, whilst he was only S3, his weapon caused ID at all times and (thanks to Soul Trap) he'd double his strength if he killed a MC or IC.

Oh, and in 6th edition, GW decided that Kheradruakh was somehow still OP - so they nerfed his sword to AP3. Presumably a SM HQ with a 2+ save had once died to him, after the SM player suffered a brain haemorrhage half way through the game and forgot what tactics were. Now that SM HQ is safe again.

EDIT: Almost forgot - because Mandrakes love attacking from hiding, Kheradruakh obviously had no assault grenades whatsoever. So, the greatest DE assassin could be outwitted by a bush. Come to the dark side - we have pillocks.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/26 17:46:44


 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Didn't they have a Mandrake special character before lopping his entry off?


pun-y.

Yes the decapitator, who has had rules since the first full codex until this edition- but never a model.

Some more thoughts on this:

Wych cult.

Combat drugs:
1- +1S
2- +1A
3- +1 I, +3" movement for assault distances. This bonus stacks with other movement bonuses.
4- FnP 6+, or +1 to FnP rolls
5- Zealot
6- +1 to Invulnerable saves

Roll once for all models in the army with Combat drugs.

Wych Cult Raiders- 1+ Core choices, 1+ Aux choices

Brutal Display: Any time an unit from this detachment with the combat drugs special rule removes from play another unit in the assault phase by any means, all enemy units within 12" of the destroyed unit must make a LD test, Units which fail count as moving in difficult terrain during their following turn and can only make snapshots- models with fearless(but not ATSKNF) ignore this rule. All units in this detachment count the turn as being 1 higher than normal for PfP regardless of which PfP table they use.

Blood on the Stage: All units from this detachment can count the turn as 1 higher for their respective PfP table.

Core Choice: Commorrgah - 1 Succubus, 2 Squads of wyches, 1 squad of bloodbrides, 1 squad of beastmasters or 1 squad of reavers.
All units from this formation gain the following special rule:
Deadly Dance: Only usable if all models in the unit have this rule- at the end of any round of combat where the enemy unit lost, but did not fallback- the unit with this special rule may move all of their engaged models up to d6" in any direction. At least one model must remain engaged with the enemy unit, although they may be moved to be engaged with other models in the unit. For each model with this special rule still engaged roll a d6, on a 4+ the enemy model suffers a S3 hit with the rending USR as the wyches flip and pirouette around their enemies, slicing open a throat here and piercing a heart there. No other special rules from any source may be applied to these attacks. The enemy unit does not have to test for morale from these attacks, if the engaged enemy units are destroyed by these attacks the units that were engaged with them may consolidate afterwards.

Wyches-

Same stats, same cost. Squad Size 5-20
Can take dodge save versus overwatch

under 10 models = 1 special weapon
10 models = 3 special weapons
15 models = 5 special weapons

Wych weapons-
Hydraknives- Hydraknives give the model 3+d3 attacks base. Attacks made with these weapons have the shred USR (5 pts per model)
Razorflails- Rending, ignores shields. Any saving throw, or bonus to a saving throw, granted by an item that is described as a shield, or with the word shield in its name, cannot benefit models hit by this weapon (5pts per model)
Shardnet, Impaler- all enemy models in b2b with a model that has a shardnet have -1A. If an enemy model is in b2b with multiple shardnets in addition to -1A they lose -1A regardless of the amount of shardnets they are in B2B with. Models attacking with an Impaler have their attacks set to 1 when they strike in melee. Impaler strikes are resolved with the following profile: S+1, with the armorbane special rule. (5pts)

Hekatrix-
May replace ccwpn with venom blade: 5pts
May replace ccwpn with Agoniser:15pts
May take Hex Javelins- range 12" Fleshbane, models wounded by a Hex-Javelin must further pass a T test or be removed from play with no saves of any kind:5pts Assault 1 (5pts)
May take any of the above wych special weapons, does not count towards limit for units special weapons.



Bloodbrides-
Same stats
Squad Size- 3-10

Weapon Options:

If the unit numbers less than 10 Up to 3 models may replace their weapons as follows:
If the unit numbers 10 up to 5 models may replace their weapons as follows:

Hydraknives- Hydraknives give the model +3 instead of +1 for striking with two ccwpns. Attacks made with these weapons have the shred USR (5 pts per model)
Razorflails- Rending, ignores shields. Any saving throw, or bonus to a saving throw, granted by an item that is described as a shield, or with the word shield in its name, cannot benefit models hit by this weapon (5pts per model)
Shardnet, Impaler- all enemy models in b2b with a model that has a shardnet have -1A. If an enemy model is in b2b with multiple shardnets in addition to -1A they lose -1A regardless of the amount of shardnets they are in B2B with. Models attacking with an Impaler have their attacks set to 1 when they strike in melee. Impaler strikes are resolved with the following profile: S+1, with the armorbane special rule. (5pts)
May take Hex Javelins- range 12" Fleshbane, models wounded by a Hex-Javelin must further pass a T test or be removed from play with no saves of any kind:5pts Assault 1 (5pts)
May replace ccwpn with venom blade- 5pts

Special rules:
5++ Dodge save when not in assault, 4++ save when in assault or during overwatch

Syren:
May take an archite glaive
Has same options as above, but does not affect weapon options rest of unit can take. I.e. 10 bloodbrides, 1 is a syren, the bloodbrides can take up to 5 weapon options, and the syren can still take her weapon options

Special rules:
Has Crusader USR, grants it to any unit she is a model in.

Succubus:
Planned performance: An army that contains a succubus may pick one combat drug option, in addition to the option that was rolled for.
Succubus have a 3++ save in assault and for overwatch and a 4+ save at all other times
Access to wych cult on relics
Access to wych cult weapon options

Relics-
Syrens mask: Syren only. Any unit firing overwatch within 12" of the syren must re-roll all successful to hit rolls. Weapons which automatically hit generate 1 fewer hits down to a minimum of 1. (5pts)

Blades of Stryfe: Twin blades used in rare gladiatorial shows, When attacking with these weapons a model uses the following profile: S+1, Armorbane, Shred, a model equipped with these weapons gains +3 bonus attacks when striking during initiative order (25pts)

Drug dispenser: A rare device which is capable of monitoring the users vitals and applying various combat enhancing drugs to the users system. A model with this item may pick one of the following options at the start of each assault phase(including the enemy assault phase) before any other actions take place:
1- 'Bloodwrack'+2S
2- 'Redrum'+2A
3- 'Wraithblood'+1T, +1 to FnP rolls (cannot make FnP roll better than 2+)
4- 'Hypex'-Re-roll dodge saves
5- 'Blitz'- double assault distance after all modifiers
6- Overload- Pick any three of the above, must pick three.

For each drug injected by the drug dispenser roll a d6, On the roll of a 6 the model takes a wound with no saves of any kind allowed. If the model suffers more than its current wounds from this device it explodes, dealing a S4 AP- hit to all models within 6" i.e. if a model has 1 wound left and suffers 2 wounds it explodes, if it suffers 1 wound it simply dies. (10pts)

Mirror Field: Creates Holographic clones of the wearer, based on memory of previous actions they move nearby the wearer but make different movements that is has stored in memory. Roll a d6 for each hit the wearer suffers, on the roll of 5,6 they hit the wearer, on a 1 to 4 they hit a mirror image. Holographic clones are easily discernible up close, any attacks that hit during the assault phase bypass the roll and hit the wearer. Wearer may not benefit from any other fields, items described as fields, or with field in their name. (20pts)

Glaive of Infinite Woe: Model cannot benefit from an additional weapon when striking with this weapon. Fleshbane, Armorbane. Phase thrust: Model makes a single attack, using their WS and any bonuses or re-rolls to hit they may have. If the attack hits it causes D3+1 wounds or HPs with no saves of any kind allowed. (40pts)











This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/26 19:14:08


 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Totally late to the party

HQs get more options (jetbike, skyboard, etc) if nothing else give these to the Succubus and Archon

The Archon needs more utility or better gear or both. Right now mine is mostly used just because the Shadowfield makes him more survivable than the Succubus and the Haemy. He's not terrible in CC nor does he excel at it. A bonus to sieze the initiative would be fitting and fluffy.

Clonefield for the Haemy and more buffing potential outside of the Coven Supplement

Succubus gets a 3++ invun in CC or a reroll on the 4++ The first wound she takes is usually all it takes to kill her.

A new member to the Court of the Archon, a Null that disrupts enemy psykers maybe?

The Huskblade could be fleshbane ap 3 instant death or ap 2

Agonizer drops to 20 points, it's badly overcosted presently

Soulfright weaponry gets a buff and becomes useful against ATSKNF. Leadership shenanigans are neat and fit nicely with our army to bad we can't bring psychic shriek without allies.

Fleshbane on more weapons in general would be nice

Incubi get grenades. The models are amazing, I would love to bring them without them being a liability

More weapons or special ammo (fleshbane?) for Trueborn + option to ghostplate for cheap or free. Heatlances would be welcomed here too.

Bloodbrides can take power weapons or agonizers or rework wych weapons to have more use. Same with combat drugs.

Ravagers can be taken as squads

Cronos should be able to be in squads with Talos and/or get a larger AoE for their +FnP

Coven Monsterous (or GMC) creature. It needs a high I value, good CC and needs to be able to move fast across the board. Bonus if it gets some sort of psychic protection or causes perils to those around it. Call it psychic torment or some such. Give this to the Cronos as well.

Wyches need some sort of overwatch protection (5++ to overwatch) and either posioned melee hits (3+ would be nice) or rending..give me a reason to take them please

Vector Dancer for the RWJF

Free or cheaper missles for the Voidraven or more bombs also make the bomb STR D

Shredder becoming a template would be cool

Disintgrator becomes s6 (we really lack mid strength multi-purpose shooting)

Vect and/or Coven GMC

Some strength D weapons (the dark gate)

Void Lances on something else

More options to twin link. Pure DE lack psychic bonuses but, our gear doesn't really help. I'm so so so tired of missing single shot lances from Raiders I don't even take them other than a gunboat full of warriors. Not to say that those single shots haven't been effective but, I never count on them.

Items could use some work as well. Can the Djnn Blade be removed? Could we get something reasonable here?

Finally, a daecurion style detachment that allows transports to move flat out and still fire 1 weapon

Edit: Forgot something. If GW would release a box of Grotesques or Court of the Archon it would be nice as right now thats a hole in the model line that would sell well as both units got buffed in the last book

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/01/27 05:18:40


 
   
Made in ca
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord






 vipoid wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Didn't they have a Mandrake special character before lopping his entry off?


I was actually thinking more in terms of a non-SC Mandrake HQ. But to answer your question: yes they did - Kheradruakh . He was generally considered the worst HQ in the game. Possibly the worst unit in the game.

Basically a T3 character with just a 5++ for protection (no EW), who couldn't join squads. He also had the Lictor deployment method - i.e. when he arrived from reserve he could be placed anywhere on the table... but couldn't actually assault. You'll notice that this is not likely to improve the survival rating of a T3 model who needs to be in melee to do anything. You could maybe put him behind cover or something and hope to assault something next turn, but you're really hoping that nothing can see him even after moving. Plus, since he only has a 6" move, all your opponent has to do is move away.

In melee he was okay but nothing amazing. WS6 I6, 5 S5 power weapon attacks on the charge (I think he caused ID on 6s). It doesn't seem too bad... until you remember that combat is literally all he has. Also bear in mind that this guy is suppose to hunt characters. Yeah, good luck with that.

The thing he, he could still have been tolerable. I mean, if he cost about 50-60pts, say, then he might be fun as a throwaway HQ (like a, crappy melee version of Marbo). Did I mention that he cost 140pts? Because he cost 140pts. As an idea, a 5th edition Archon with Huskblade, Shadowfield and Soul Trap was only 135pts. He had better WS and I, more attacks, could join units, had a 2++ save and, whilst he was only S3, his weapon caused ID at all times and (thanks to Soul Trap) he'd double his strength if he killed a MC or IC.

Oh, and in 6th edition, GW decided that Kheradruakh was somehow still OP - so they nerfed his sword to AP3. Presumably a SM HQ with a 2+ save had once died to him, after the SM player suffered a brain haemorrhage half way through the game and forgot what tactics were. Now that SM HQ is safe again.

EDIT: Almost forgot - because Mandrakes love attacking from hiding, Kheradruakh obviously had no assault grenades whatsoever. So, the greatest DE assassin could be outwitted by a bush. Come to the dark side - we have pillocks.


I wanna challenge the "worst unit ever" claim by reminding you that 4th edition Chaos-whatzits existed, the Pyrovore was the new thing, and Tau still had to deal with Space Pope causing mass heartbreaks when he died.

Also, back on topic, I kinda wish they'd return the Dracon as a low-tier Cabal HQ choice.

EDIT: Another thing, but really shooting high for the stars here: I wish they'd make it so that fielding "pure" armies are viable. Like pure wych cult armies, pure kabalite and pure Haemonculus cult. What would kill me would be if they ended up doing the Chaos Daemon to it (namely, each aspect fulfilled one niche and one niche only, with just the bare minimum for the other roles if you want to go "mono")

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/01/27 04:25:06


Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!


Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.


When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. 
   
Made in ca
Gargantuan Gargant






As mentioned previously, the Archon really does need a force multiplier effect since the Succubus should cover the expertise in CC. Having the effects of the Labyrinthine Cunning Warlord Trait built in as a special rule would fit pretty well given that any Archon worth his spiky boots would be meticulous in planning and scheming to make their way to the top.

Speaking of Warlord Traits, they're arguably one of the worst sets in the game right now alongside Nids and CSM.

Ancient Evil should have all enemy units within 12" of the Warlord suffer a -2 Ld penalty to their units while also gaining fear for him and his accompanying unit.

Labyrinthine Cunning should be renamed Paranoid Planner, which allows him to redeploy up to three units anywhere within your deployment zone after both players have deployed both their armies as well as scouts/infiltrators. However, the unit the Archon is in may never use his Leadership for Morale or Pinning tests. This way it reflects the Warlords' aptness for contingency plans while also showing his inability to trust anyone.

Soulthirst should allow the Archon and his unit to gain 3" to all run and charge moves in addition to the rage special rule to show their eagerness to get into combat to slake their thirst.

Hatred Eternal should change into giving the Warlord and his unit Preferred Enemy (Everything!). Should the Warlord or his unit suffer a wound during the game, they immediately gain Hatred. Sort of reflects how they get enraged by the impertinence of their foes hurting them somehow.

Blood Dancer is changed to the Warlord gaining an extra attack for every point of WS that he has over his opponents'. Only use the WS of the character he is engaged with if the Warlord is in a challenge, otherwise use the majority WS for units with mixed WS values. I know it kind of stomps over Lucius' toes as SC but he gets it guaranteed and it is fluffy given that he did duel in Comorragh back when he visited it with Fabius Bile.

Towering Arrogance should be changed to allowing all friendly Dark Eldar units within 12" of him to choose to fail or pass Morale checks automatically.

Incubi should have tormenter fields as their gear, kinda weird they don't have some sort of analogue to the Striking Scorpions mandiblasters. It allows them to attack at initiative when charging into difficult terrain and make opponents re-roll successful to hit rolls of 6 on that turn.

Demi-klaives should be what they were before and be +1S AP2 base with an extra attack when dual-wielded and +2 S AP2 two-handed when clasped.

Agonizers should be AP2. Huskblades get to be AP3 with fleshbane and instant death so one isn't too much better than the other.

Electrocorrosive whips wound on a 4+ again while also halving the strength and attack of those it wounds.

People have covered a lot on some of the other units and weapons so I'll just cover the relics.

Animus Vitae should be a S6 AP2 blast that ignores cover for a one shot wonder. 15 points.

The Archangel of Pain should affect both Fearless and ATSKNF units, make the range 18" instead. 20 points.

Armour of Misery isn't bad, but if it was a 3+ instead (to make it better than ghostplate at the very least) it would make it more attractive to an Archon. Same points as in the codex.

The Djin Blade allows the wielder to re-roll all failed rolls to hit and wound but the bearer suffers a wound with no armour saves allowed for every roll of a 1 to hit or wound. Make it +1S and AP2 as well and you've got something. About 20 points.

Helm of Spite is about right. Lower it down to 15 points and its okay if situational.

The Parasite's kiss should be AP3, with a 10-15 points cost.
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

I'd swap that round - make Agaoniser Fleshbane and AP3 (probably still drop their cost to 20pts), and make the Huskblade AP2. Could also give it Shred or something.

I'd like to see the Soul Trap work outside of challenges. And work for wounds caused by ID. And on MCs again.

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
 
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