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1. An ammo upgrade for the LRBT, which elects to use either its normal shot, or the upgrade each turn.

LRBT Anti-Tank Round: S8 AP3 Heavy 1, Armourbane.

2. A new tank variant modelled on the Jadgtiger tank of Germany in WWII. Simply imagine the Vanquisher Turret replacing the Demolisher Cannon of the current FW Thunderer Siege Tank. FW could produce so simple an upgrade sprue for such a tank... But it would also be very easy to convert!

 God In Action wrote:


2. A new tank variant modelled on the Jadgtiger tank of Germany in WWII. Simply imagine the Vanquisher Turret replacing the Demolisher Cannon of the current FW Thunderer Siege Tank. FW could produce so simple an upgrade sprue for such a tank... But it would also be very easy to convert!

Its called the Laser Destroyer and there is a reason no one uses it.
S9 AP2 Ordnance 1 Twin Linked on a BS3 chassis for 160 points.

The Medusa (was codex, is now FW) has something very similar. For an additional 5 or 10 points or so, it could elect to switch between S10 AP2 large blast and S10 AP1 Armorbane small blast. If you want something like that, maybe you could try looking into one of those. I loved 'em while they were in the 5e Guard codex.

 God In Action wrote:
1. An ammo upgrade for the LRBT, which elects to use either its normal shot, or the upgrade each turn.

LRBT Anti-Tank Round: S8 AP3 Heavy 1, Armourbane.

IOW, remove any pretense that the LR Vanquisher is a relevant unit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 KommissarKiln wrote:
For an additional 5 or 10 points or so, it could elect to switch between S10 AP2 large blast and S10 AP1 Armorbane small blast.

Mostly right. You always use the bastion breacher shells if you buy them, you don't get the option to switch between types. That's why the upgrade is so cheap, you get armorbane instead of ordnance but you permanently lose the 5" blast option for killing elite infantry.

I'm thinking thematically here. A Vanquisher-Thunderer would indeed be terrible without being cheap as chips (but then, IG tanks need a points reduction across the board without wider buffs to vehicle rules). On the other hand it might look cool as all hell, which was what I was really going for. It complements the Krieg aesthetic by taking from the Jadgtiger and StuG aesthetic.

The problem isn't your hull-mount Vanquisher, it's giving the standard LRBT the same gun (except for AP 2, which hardly matters) as the LR Vanquisher but also letting it keep the ability to fire the 5" blast against infantry. That makes the LR Vanquisher even more useless than it already is. You'll never even consider taking one when the LRBT with anti-tank shells is just plain better.

Give the ammo selection option to the Vanquisher, it's designed to be the monster hunter and tank killer.

Give the LRBT the ability to not suck with its main gun and that solves a myriad of issues.

Old forgeworld armoured list had special shells that were awesome, even OP somehow.
- In one of the first IA edition, LR Vanquisher could use standard LRBT ammo + the antitank ammo we all know. It could be great to have this again for more versatility.
- LR HQ choices had the option for beast hunter shells which are 72'' S3 AP3 Poisoned (2+), Insta death, IIRC (don't have the books right now).
- Augur shell, which were able to downgrade armour and reduc armour value if a penetrating hit was scored. Kind of fun.
That being said, I don't think what the OP proposes is very good for balance. As other said, vanquisher would become obsolete. Regarding the "assault cannon" tank, great idea, but again we should rather rework the laser destroyer.

 RazgrizOne wrote:
Old forgeworld armoured list had special shells that were awesome, even OP somehow.
- In one of the first IA edition, LR Vanquisher could use standard LRBT ammo + the antitank ammo we all know. It could be great to have this again for more versatility.
- LR HQ choices had the option for beast hunter shells which are 72'' S3 AP3 Poisoned (2+), Insta death, IIRC (don't have the books right now).
- Augur shell, which were able to downgrade armour and reduc armour value if a penetrating hit was scored. Kind of fun.
That being said, I don't think what the OP proposes is very good for balance. As other said, vanquisher would become obsolete. Regarding the "assault cannon" tank, great idea, but again we should rather rework the laser destroyer.

Beast Hunter Shells are 72" S8 AP2 Small Blast Instant Death.

Sadly, the augur shells can only be taken by the Conqueror, which is horrifically overpriced in the current game.

 Lukash_ wrote:

 RazgrizOne wrote:
Old forgeworld armoured list had special shells that were awesome, even OP somehow.
- In one of the first IA edition, LR Vanquisher could use standard LRBT ammo + the antitank ammo we all know. It could be great to have this again for more versatility.
- LR HQ choices had the option for beast hunter shells which are 72'' S3 AP3 Poisoned (2+), Insta death, IIRC (don't have the books right now).
- Augur shell, which were able to downgrade armour and reduc armour value if a penetrating hit was scored. Kind of fun.
That being said, I don't think what the OP proposes is very good for balance. As other said, vanquisher would become obsolete. Regarding the "assault cannon" tank, great idea, but again we should rather rework the laser destroyer.

Beast Hunter Shells are 72" S8 AP2 Small Blast Instant Death.

Sadly, the augur shells can only be taken by the Conqueror, which is horrifically overpriced in the current game.

The version in the current Siege of Vraks seems pretty good to me. It's main gun is S8, AP3 Small Blast, with co-axial Storm Bolter (which twin links the cannon if the bolter hits first), but best of all is a fast Leman Russ. To top it off it's 5 points cheaper than an Eradicator.

Maybe we should improve the vanquisher first and give it a small blast S7 AP4 shell too before we rework the LRBT?

For the Laser Destroyer just have it remove D3 HP when it penetrates a target. And make it AP 1.

IMO, even if both had armorbane, I would much rather take the 1-shot S8 AP2 than the Taurox prime cannon. I wouldn't sacrifice the strength and AP of the gun simultaneously just to give it a small blast.

 KommissarKiln wrote:
IMO, even if both had armorbane, I would much rather take the 1-shot S8 AP2 than the Taurox prime cannon. I wouldn't sacrifice the strength and AP of the gun simultaneously just to give it a small blast.

Its meant as an alternative shot so you either fire the AP shell or the HE shell.

There are a *lot* of tank variants. Most of them do "just one thing". From a fluff perspective, this makes sense. From a game perspective on the other hand...

Most of the tanks do "just one thing". When that one thing is Pask in a Rending Punisher, that's one thing. When that one thing is a single AP 4 blast that ignores cover, that's not so hot (It's called a Hellhound).

Making them cheaper has the problem that they are still relatively tough platforms (barring Haywire or similar attack vectors). Granted, a lot of the tanks could stand to lose some points anyway, but this can only go so far.

Initial Thoughts:
-Make the Tank Commander a solo model able to "Look Out Sir" on a 4+ if another friendly Leman Russ is within 6" of him, and able to issue Tank Orders in general.
-Make "Ace Tanks" an Elite choice; solo tanks which are BS 4 and get the rare variants (The Vanquisher and Executioner would go here). Give the Vanquisher access to more variant rounds, allow the Executioner more firing modes for plasma, etc.
-The generic tanks get to remain squadded up.