Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi,

i have started my W40k army a few months ago and the main body is made of the Emperor's Children, with some Slaanesh Daemons as allied detachment.
I am kind of trying to keep it as fluffy as possible, as I am not much of an competitive player anyway, so I am not comfortable with using stuff like Mark of Nurgle etc...

What I was thinking about lately was getting Ahriman and like..two squads of Thousand Sons, to have more interesting psyker setup, but I am not sure about this.

I have gone through some discussions about Chaos Gods and the Legions (or warbans in 40k, i still prefer to call them legions.. ) and their relationships and I am not sure about it.

I came to an understanding that Slaanesh has major issues with Khorne and Tzeentch hates Khorne and Nurgle? And obviously everybody hates each other a bit, but those were supposed to be like...total hatred.

So, would that makes sense if I have a detachment of Thousand Sons helping the main force of Emperor's Children ? Or do they hate each other too much? (I know rulewise nobody cares, but I want to make my army more abotu fluff, not just what's supposed to be strong..)

I am still reading through Horus Heresy books and I have not enough of 40k lore backround, but I have read somewhere that other chaos legions kinda united to destroy Emperor's Children, because they were too messed up, so if that¨s right, I am not sure about the idea that Thousand Sons would like to wage war at their side...

The big enmities between the chaos gods are:
Khorne vs Slaanesh
Nurgle vs Tzeentch
There's some lore about Khorne loathing sorcerers and psykers, who are common among Tzeentch's followers.

Anyway, your idea is perfectly valid.

Servants of different gods are constantly forging pacts and working together - even if it's just temporarily. For example the campaign book "The Siege of Vraks" has Nurgle and Khorne warbands fighting alongside each other for several years. An alliance between Slaanesh and Tzeentch worshipers is just as likely.

(Also, the story where everybody ganged up on the Emperor's Children was about getting even for the theft of slaves from the other legions, iirc.)

Awesome...so even some demons from Tzeentch would be okay, right? Too bad Slaanesh and Khrne and Slaanesh hate each other so much...I like the Bloodletters models...

At least I can order some Thousand Sons and start working on them...when I finish the Noise Marines...

Absolutely tzeentch daemons would be okay.

Also, the gods that hate each other do work together, it's just rarely and when the stakes are high enough or the reward great enough to warrant their mutual interest. There's plenty of fluff situations where even greater daemons of khorne and slaanesh have worked together. I remember the tyranids codex had a story about such an event. Don't hesitate to add khorne models to your army, it would be justified and not frowned upon at all but would break theme a slight bit more than pure slaanesh/tzeentch.

You've got me wanting to try out some pure tzeentchlaanesh lists.

Even though the Chaos Gods all kinda hate each other, and to an extent that also means daemons more or less all hate each other outside of their patron, it doesn't mean they'll give up fighting things that aren't daemons if it means they have to play nice with each other.


At the end of the day, killing not daemons is more fun and they'll call a truce to make that happen.


Marines though I don't think would really care, barring a select few that are REALLY devoted. At the end of the day a Majority of Chaos Marines want either revenge for being cast aside or they just want to destroy the Imperium. Sometimes both. And if that means a warband of Various Cult Marines shaking hands and playing nice, I don't think that's too much a of stretch.

Tzeentch is the easiest to work with in that sense - you only have to worry about three or four guys getting along with the enemy, where with the other enmities you have your whole army to worry about.

Good, good...I like the idea even more now.

Oh one more thing, I am painting the Emperor's Children in kind of pre-heresy scheme - purple and gold, beause I dont like that black torso and pink shoulders of 40k scheme...would that be a good idea to do the Sons similarly, in a pre heresy scheme, which is, if I remember well, red and gold? So that I could say "well you know, these guys work together for thousands of years now..."

It's Chaos. You didn't rebel against one set of rules to just follow a second set!
Really though, Slaanesh is all about doing whatever pleases you and Tzeentch making convoluted schemes, both of which are basically excuses to do anything. Saying "I like these colors better" satisfies Slaanesh, while just thinking about the idea covers Tzeentch.

Well if you want to break fluff when you're painting them, then feel free to do whatever pleases you. Even what Rootbeard said, just paint each marine different colors like they don't give a gak.

Fits perfectly with the fluff of the 41st millennium.

Thousand Sons very commonly hire out their services to other chaos lords. It says so right in the current codex's Thousand Sons entry (or maybe in their fluff section, not sure).

Remember, most chaos forces are shattered into warbands that are highly mercenary and will take what support they can get (until they are betrayed or it is convenient to betray)!

Plus I bet those Sorcerors can put on some cool pyrotechnic displays the noise marines could appreciate.

I have some Thousand sons (9*TS+5*Terminators+*Sorcerer), Slaanesh bikes and then unmarked core (daemonforge + other units) in my army.

For daemons, the Tzeentch's plan idea gives you an easy explain for anything, just say it makes sense in the convoluted plan somehow. The other gods working with Tzeentch is what you have to worry about. Slaanesh is fine though, I run Tzeentch daemons that summon Slaanesh "allies".

Refer to the others regarding marines and chapter/prim-arch history, there might be some or other feud or vendetta. Doubt it though.

First thing that crossed my mind:

Tentacles and lust.

Ho yay.

Ragnaira wrote:
Good, good...I like the idea even more now.

Oh one more thing, I am painting the Emperor's Children in kind of pre-heresy scheme - purple and gold, beause I dont like that black torso and pink shoulders of 40k scheme...would that be a good idea to do the Sons similarly, in a pre heresy scheme, which is, if I remember well, red and gold? So that I could say "well you know, these guys work together for thousands of years now..."

Those thousand sons still following Magnus use the red and gold still you could use themm.
Ahrimans faction is the blue and gold ones, So if you want too use him specificly thats something to consider.

 cadak wrote:
The big enmities between the chaos gods are:
Khorne vs Slaanesh
Nurgle vs Tzeentch
There's some lore about Khorne loathing sorcerers and psykers, who are common among Tzeentch's followers.

Where does the Khorne vs Slaanesh thing come from? Afaik, Khorne hates Tzeentch most of all.
In any case, it is more complicated than that, because Slaanesh also absolutely detests Nurgle. Nurgle is rejection of the physical world, decay of all that is beautiful or worthwile. This is anathema to Slaanesh, who values beauty and (bodily) sensation above all.
I think a better representation would be Khorne with Nurgle vs Tzeentch with Slaanesh. This pattern of alliance/rivalry makes sense, because Khorne and Tzeentch far eclipse the other two in power. In their schemes against each other, they would try to draw in the lesser god who is least antithical to them.

 cadak wrote:
Anyway, your idea is perfectly valid.

Servants of different gods are constantly forging pacts and working together - even if it's just temporarily. For example the campaign book "The Siege of Vraks" has Nurgle and Khorne warbands fighting alongside each other for several years. An alliance between Slaanesh and Tzeentch worshipers is just as likely.

(Also, the story where everybody ganged up on the Emperor's Children was about getting even for the theft of slaves from the other legions, iirc.)

Yeah, all of the Chaos factions can work together just fine. The Chaos gods cooperate with each other if it serves the greater good of all. Their mortal followers are even more likely to do so.

The rivalries go all the way back to 1st edition and haven't really changed since then.

On Khorne vs Slaanesh:

"His chef rival is Tzeentch, the great sorcerer. Tzeentch is the patron of wizards just as Khorne is the patron of warriors. Naturally this rivalry does not prevent Khorne making common cause with Tzeentch when the prospects for blood-letting are great. Combined, the two gods wield greater power than any of the others. Of all his brother-gods Khorne despises Slaanesh most of all, for the self-indulgent sensualities of the Prince of Chaos are an affront to Khorne. Even so, Khorne may join forces with Slaanesh when necessary, much as it may gall him to do so." ~ Codex Chaos (2E), pg.22

"The antithesis of Khorne is Slaanesh. The Blood God rails against his rival's decadence and love of luxury. Where a follower of Khorne conquers through the application of crude, brutal force, a champion of Slaanesh delights in each delicate stroke of the blade, only releasing his victims from his attention when they are wasted and used. Khorne also finds an opposite in Tzeentch, the Lord of Sorcery, whose elaborate scheming and use of magic he scorns as cowardly." ~ Codex Chaos Space Marines (3,5E), pg.47

On Nurgle vs Tzeentch:

"The main rival of the Lord of Sorcery is Nurge. Where Tzeentch seeks to build and evolve, the Lord of Decay desires only to break down and dissolve. On innumerable occasions Tzeentch's intricate plots have been foiled by Nurgle's malign influence and the two gods' servants clash as often with each other as with their mutual enemies.

Despite Tzeentch's rivalry with Grandfather Nurgle, he is nonetheless the god with the most influence over the others. At times, the Chaos gods must unite and act in concert if their individual plans are to reach fruition, and it is always Tzeentch who brokers these alliances. However, Tzeentch never acts out of altruism, and it can be guaranteed that every time he moves to unite the powers of Chaos he does so ultimately with his own unfathomable goals in mind." ~ Codex Chaos Space Marines (3,5E), pg.59