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After playing a lot of games with my orks.. I have realized that while they can shoot they definately excel in combat and if they arent in combat they get shot up pretty bad.

I am looking to make a melee 1500 point list and wondering what combos of units to use and if anyone has done this successfully.

Previously i support a BW with mega armor warboss and his boys - painboy - claw nob with 3 mek guns KMK a bit of lootas and a SAG backfield while trukks with tankbustas support the main BW

What am i missing? Am i using too much backfield shooting or just leave grots on back objectives and zoom up to combat with everything.

I have 5 kommandos and snikrot 10 stormboys etc

Bully boyz in trukks + VSG have performed great for me.

I know some people don't like power klaws, (an extra 25pts on a squishy guy) but I like them for CC. I've used them to take out Dreads, IG tanks, rhinos, etc.

 cox.dan2 wrote:
I know some people don't like power klaws, (an extra 25pts on a squishy guy) but I like them for CC. I've used them to take out Dreads, IG tanks, rhinos, etc.

People who don't like PKs probably aren't doing much of anything with their orks.

That's not to say that there aren't times when they're less than ideal, but a klawless army isn't going to worry many people.

Honestly the best CC for orks is Mega Nobz in trukks. The bully boyz formation combined with bikers and the FW warboss are the two of the fastest and hard hitting ork units in the game.

The one thing holding back mega nobz and orks in general is the lack of invuln saves.... GW WHY! :(

If the KFF or MFF worked in combat... As of now feel no pain is our "invuln" .. I think.

Make Cybork Bodies 4++ and I'll be happy. Even if its 10 pts as opposed to 5.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Make Cybork Bodies 4++ and I'll be happy. Even if its 10 pts as opposed to 5.

From what I remember, CB were actually 10 points for a 5+ invuln. If anything I wouldn't be surprised if we were forced to pay 25 points for it like Tau or other factions do. I think 15 points would be fair if it was a 4+, given the handicaps that mega armour gives (though it would be oh-so tasty with the lucky stikk, and make one of our Ork warlord traits actually useful!).

One tip I've found to be very effective is to team zhardsnark up with deffkoptas.
Why? They can turbo boost 24" and basically ignore intervening cover. With killsaws on the koptas, they are dishing out str7 ap2 on the charge. Their threat range is huge, 12" move, 24" turbo, and on the waaagh, charge 2d6". Having a 2+ jink save is great against most things that don't ignore cover, and each kopta is t5 with 2x wounds. Don't forget that zhardsnark hits with his PK at initiative 4 and they all have twin linked big shootas/ twin linked rokkits.
I use mine to hunt down riptides.

Boyz in Trukks are also prety solid. Tabled a CSM army today by turn 5, but the game was prety much over by turn 3. The thing with boys in trukks is you need many units, you need to spam them. 3-4 to start with. Meganobz and Tankbustas in Trukks are a great support for the Boyz.

 r_squared wrote:
One tip I've found to be very effective is to team zhardsnark up with deffkoptas.
Why? They can turbo boost 24" and basically ignore intervening cover. With killsaws on the koptas, they are dishing out str7 ap2 on the charge. Their threat range is huge, 12" move, 24" turbo, and on the waaagh, charge 2d6". Having a 2+ jink save is great against most things that don't ignore cover, and each kopta is t5 with 2x wounds. Don't forget that zhardsnark hits with his PK at initiative 4 and they all have twin linked big shootas/ twin linked rokkits.
I use mine to hunt down riptides.

Seems a bit of a waste though IMO, 2 wounds a pop is nice, but Zhadsnark already gives Scout to himself and a unit of Warbikers that join him on deployment as part of his Warlord trait. Warbikers overall will have more wounds and you have a Nob in the unit to gain access to a bosspole in addition to taking up any challenges heading Zhadsnark's way that he might not want to take (i.e. Dreadknights). Furthermore, deffkoptas don't get the +1 cover save from turbo-boosting sadly that normal warbikers have, so at max the Deffkoptas have a 3+ cover instead of a 2 up. They do have I4 from Zhadsnark though for Hit and Run which would be ded kunning, so I guess the tradeoff is having potential re-charges.

Despite being a bit old school, bikers and especially Zhardsnark are very good. Frontline Gaming have a few batreps on them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
They can be quite powerful, and more importantly fast, so you can still easily grab objectives.

 Grimskul wrote:

 r_squared wrote:
One tip I've found to be very effective is to team zhardsnark up with deffkoptas.
Why? They can turbo boost 24" and basically ignore intervening cover. With killsaws on the koptas, they are dishing out str7 ap2 on the charge. Their threat range is huge, 12" move, 24" turbo, and on the waaagh, charge 2d6". Having a 2+ jink save is great against most things that don't ignore cover, and each kopta is t5 with 2x wounds. Don't forget that zhardsnark hits with his PK at initiative 4 and they all have twin linked big shootas/ twin linked rokkits.
I use mine to hunt down riptides.

Seems a bit of a waste though IMO, 2 wounds a pop is nice, but Zhadsnark already gives Scout to himself and a unit of Warbikers that join him on deployment as part of his Warlord trait. Warbikers overall will have more wounds and you have a Nob in the unit to gain access to a bosspole in addition to taking up any challenges heading Zhadsnark's way that he might not want to take (i.e. Dreadknights). Furthermore, deffkoptas don't get the +1 cover save from turbo-boosting sadly that normal warbikers have, so at max the Deffkoptas have a 3+ cover instead of a 2 up. They do have I4 from Zhadsnark though for Hit and Run which would be ded kunning, so I guess the tradeoff is having potential re-charges.

Good points, but as well as hit and run at I4, and each killsaw equipped kopta having str6 ap2 base, they can also have twin linked rokkits. With the speed and hitting power, you are tearing riptides into tiny bits.
It's like running with souped up Nob bikers.

Maxed out, 5x Deffkoptas with killsaws is 275
8 warbikers, 1 nob & PK, is 202.

If you equal the amount of wounds, you get a difference of 73 points, for which you're getting; 5x TL str 8 ap3, 15x str7 ap2 on the charge, and 10x str6 each round after, ignoring intervening cover, 24" turbo boost and hit and run.
Warbikers are dishing out, 30x TL Str5 ap5, 32x str4 ap- + 4x Str 9 ap2 on the charge, 24x Str3 ap- + 3x Str8 ap2 each round after and are locked in combat. Or you could take an extra 4 bikers.

TBH, I like both units, but with Zhardsnark buffing the Initiative and Ld, I think it's great to be able to utilise his full stretch speed, and go hunting those fast, tough units.

[Edit] I also forgot about big bombs, according to the latest FAQ, you can drop these large blast Str4 bombs in your movement phase. That's a handy, if situational option you can take which the bikers don't offer. Drop a bunch of these on the heads of those pathfinders on the way to chop their daddy riptide into salsa.

How does Zhadsnark buff LD and I? i cant find where it says that.

 Dojo wrote:
How does Zhadsnark buff LD and I? i cant find where it says that.

I think they are just thinking along the lines of using his leadership value for the biker unit he is attached too, that's it.

Exactly, you use the highest Ld or initiative in the unit. So rather than hit and run on initiative 2, they can do so on intiative 4.

Meaning you can shoot at your target with all those twin linked rokkits, charge in with Str7 buzzsaws, leap out and bugger off, or have annuva go. :-D

 r_squared wrote:
One tip I've found to be very effective is to team zhardsnark up with deffkoptas.
Why? They can turbo boost 24" and basically ignore intervening cover. With killsaws on the koptas, they are dishing out str7 ap2 on the charge. Their threat range is huge, 12" move, 24" turbo, and on the waaagh, charge 2d6"

Bikers and koptas do not benefit from the Waaagh's run&charge, do they?

Furthermore I agree Zhadsnark can turboboost 24", but how can the kopta's keep up with him when he does since they only turboboost 12"?

Every unit with Ere We Go benefits from the Waaagh! which includes bikers and deffkoptas. Vehicles don't have Ere We Go but Ghazzy's supplement has a Dread Mob formation that gives all those walkers Ere We Go which helps get them across the board.

I like the horde feeling to orks so I tend to go foot slogging.

I do an ork horde formation and CAD.

Ork horde:
3 pain boyz + 3 groups of 29 boyz with nob +BP and PK = 150 + 660 =810.

CAD
warboss on bike with PK (then a relic such as da lucky stikk or da finkin kap) = 110
2 x min squads of gretchin = 70

It comes out at 990. Then in an 1850 point game you have 860 points to spend on fun stuff. I've been experimenting with meganob missiles (3 nobs in a trukk with ram). One is a bit hit and miss, but I can see 2 working really well.

With that base of just under 1000 points unless your playing a very tough list you will at least give your opponent a bloody nose. (I played against an Eldar player spitting out 120+ str 6 shots a turn and the boyz didn't last too long, but what does?). Use cover as you can (insist on a decent amount of terrain on the board) and always advance on the enemy and they will find it tough to deal wounds quick enough, play agressively.

You also have 1 HQ, 6 elite, 6 HS and 6 FA open to you to really have fun with. Personally I take 5 single rokkit deffkoptas as turn one you can have them on your opponents deployment line pinging side armour and generally annoying him. Use them to soak overwatch, tie up things that are good at shooting but bad in melee in combat and generally have a bit of fun with them. Good luck and enjoy the orksies!

 Singleton Mosby wrote:

 r_squared wrote:
One tip I've found to be very effective is to team zhardsnark up with deffkoptas.
Why? They can turbo boost 24" and basically ignore intervening cover. With killsaws on the koptas, they are dishing out str7 ap2 on the charge. Their threat range is huge, 12" move, 24" turbo, and on the waaagh, charge 2d6"

Bikers and koptas do not benefit from the Waaagh's run&charge, do they?

Furthermore I agree Zhadsnark can turboboost 24", but how can the kopta's keep up with him when he does since they only turboboost 12"?

Koptas are Jetbikes, they can turboboost a bit more than 12" ... ( at least 18" if I remember well). So they don't really keep up, but they fare much better than war bikes .

XC18 wrote:

 Singleton Mosby wrote:

 r_squared wrote:
One tip I've found to be very effective is to team zhardsnark up with deffkoptas.
Why? They can turbo boost 24" and basically ignore intervening cover. With killsaws on the koptas, they are dishing out str7 ap2 on the charge. Their threat range is huge, 12" move, 24" turbo, and on the waaagh, charge 2d6"

Bikers and koptas do not benefit from the Waaagh's run&charge, do they?

Furthermore I agree Zhadsnark can turboboost 24", but how can the kopta's keep up with him when he does since they only turboboost 12"?

Koptas are Jetbikes, they can turboboost a bit more than 12" ... ( at least 18" if I remember well). So they don't really keep up, but they fare much better than war bikes .

Koptas/ jet bikes can turbo boost upto 24", meaning deffkoptas can keep up with zhardsnark no problem. The deffkoptas ignore intervening terrain thanks to jet bike rules, and zhardsnark's skilled rider means he ignores dangerous terrain, which also means that when the deffkoptas end up in terrain, they don't have to test for it as usual. It also gifts the +1 to their jink save.
All in all, with all the benefits mentioned before, you can have a terrifyingly fast unit that hits like a sharpened lump hammer, can scout or outflank, married up with all the bike troops you can take thanks to zhardsnark, and you can have an army that will run rings around most armies, and smash face in CC with the best of them.

Zhardsnark also has Waaagh. All the deffkoptas have ere we go, so on the round you call your Waaagh, move 12" turbo boost 24" charge 2d6". That's a maximum threat range of 5 feet!

As another bonus, he has tank shock. Detach him from your Koptas and turbo boost through any unit that's falling back to remove them from the table. No saves, no quibbles, they're gone.

 r_squared wrote:

XC18 wrote:

 Singleton Mosby wrote:

 r_squared wrote:
One tip I've found to be very effective is to team zhardsnark up with deffkoptas.
Why? They can turbo boost 24" and basically ignore intervening cover. With killsaws on the koptas, they are dishing out str7 ap2 on the charge. Their threat range is huge, 12" move, 24" turbo, and on the waaagh, charge 2d6"

Bikers and koptas do not benefit from the Waaagh's run&charge, do they?

Furthermore I agree Zhadsnark can turboboost 24", but how can the kopta's keep up with him when he does since they only turboboost 12"?

Koptas are Jetbikes, they can turboboost a bit more than 12" ... ( at least 18" if I remember well). So they don't really keep up, but they fare much better than war bikes .

Koptas/ jet bikes can turbo boost upto 24", meaning deffkoptas can keep up with zhardsnark no problem. The deffkoptas ignore intervening terrain thanks to jet bike rules, and zhardsnark's skilled rider means he ignores dangerous terrain, which also means that when the deffkoptas end up in terrain, they don't have to test for it as usual. It also gifts the +1 to their jink save.
All in all, with all the benefits mentioned before, you can have a terrifyingly fast unit that hits like a sharpened lump hammer, can scout or outflank, married up with all the bike troops you can take thanks to zhardsnark, and you can have an army that will run rings around most armies, and smash face in CC with the best of them.

Zhardsnark also has Waaagh. All the deffkoptas have ere we go, so on the round you call your Waaagh, move 12" turbo boost 24" charge 2d6". That's a maximum threat range of 5 feet!

As another bonus, he has tank shock. Detach him from your Koptas and turbo boost through any unit that's falling back to remove them from the table. No saves, no quibbles, they're gone.

I don't think WAAAGH! works with bikes/jetbikes, since it specifically states you can charge even after a unit has made a run move (not turbo-boost), which a biker cannot do and turbo-boost is something that is distinctly separate from a run move.

 Grimskul wrote:

I don't think WAAAGH! works with bikes/jetbikes, since it specifically states you can charge even after a unit has made a run move (not turbo-boost), which a biker cannot do and turbo-boost is something that is distinctly separate from a run move.

That's what I meant.

And I didn't know jetbikes could turboboost 24", nice to know.

Good point, shame that.

 r_squared wrote:
Good point, shame that.

It is. But judging from the above most ork players turboboost their bikes/koptas before charging in with the Whaaag!

So, has there ever been any comment on this from GW?

It's obvious you can't. The rule only tells about running - not turboboosting.

 Singleton Mosby wrote:

 r_squared wrote:
Good point, shame that.

It is. But judging from the above most ork players turboboost their bikes/koptas before charging in with the Whaaag!

So, has there ever been any comment on this from GW?

I've used Bikes almost every game since the new Codex and have never charged after turbo boosting, never seen or heard of anyone doing that. Rules says run.

Used to regularly, as do most people I play with who play orks. None of us noticed tbh. Still it makes up for the OP gak we regularly face.
Won't do it in future though, I suppose. Just one of those things.
But then I'd don't play seriously, or actually give a stuff about the rules most of the time anyway.

Yeah. I don't believe I ever did it myself, but when I was making comparisons of stormboyz v bikers someone brought that up. That being said, I'd never take stormboyz over bikers. Stormboyz have exactly three advantages over bikers: they can waaagh!, they're cheaper, and they can go up levels in ruins. Bikers have every other advantage you can think of.