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I propose open top rhinos for 35pts because the benefits are equlized by penalties.

Open top confers the vehicle to be assault and allows all occupants to fire. The draw backs are: The enemy gets a bonus on the damage table. The crew and occupants can get flamed easily.

Benefits outway the penalties immensely. Considering rhinos are basically already paper thin, its not like any bonus on the damage table would be a game changer. Especially since they are basically glanced to death already with the amount of mid strength shooting currently dominating the game. While flamers may hit easier, most times, the rhino is gonna be long dead before anything with a flame template would get close enough to do the job. (Except maybe heldrakes or something else with torrent.) Inversely, Open topped would now make melta havoc kill teams be ridiculously stupid, and give CSM the one thing they need more than anything else, a delivery option that lets them assault out of it. For 35 points? That is just too good. Realistically, would you ever use a standard rhino since it costs the exact same? I sure as hell wouldn't.

That being said, I do understand the need for CSM to have some sort of assault delivery option besides a landraider. Open topped is just not the way to go about it. If you want to make rhino's assault vehicle's. Just give them access to some sort of "assault ramp/hatch" upgrade for 15 pts or so. With a dozer blade and dirge caster, that brings a rhino up to 60 pts. The same cost as a DE raider. You'll be less maneuverable, but more durable. (Compared to a raider at least )

Game mechanics aside. Can you imagine what an open topped rhino would look like? Personally, I can't think of anything that would not just look really weird. My best guess is somewhere between a pickup with a gun on top and a flatbed semi. Conceptually, it just doesn't work.

Agreed. But one can only hope for such things... Cos if chaos have a nice thing, you can sure as hell bet that SM will have it first.

Nah. What CSM need is a giant flying thing that deep strikes and vomits out passengers and has a random chance to eat whatever is embarked. And it has no minimisation of mishaps or accuracy. Oh, and it should cost about 100 points. And it should not be in the codex. And it should be a fricking expensive resin model.

Wait a second...

 Filch wrote:
I propose open top rhinos for 35pts because the benefits are equlized by penalties.

Open top confers the vehicle to be assault and allows all occupants to fire. The draw backs are: The enemy gets a bonus on the damage table. The crew and occupants can get flamed easily.

Mechanically fine, but I'm not sure a rhino really makes sense as literally being open-tppped. It just doesn't look open-topped is all. A purchasable assault ram might work a bit better. Also, couldn't berzerkers ride on top of rhinos bak in the day? I think it would be neat to allow that again and basically treat the rhino as having a second transport capacity of 10 that only berzerkers can use.

I'd say 40 points is fair

45-pts at least. It's a better version of the ork truck.

In Storm of Iron, the Iron Warriors would cram Cultists into what pretty much were ork Trukks and had them speed into battle.

Something like that would be cool for Cultists to take as a Dedicated Transport.

But TBH I'd rather pay 45-50 points for a Weaponless Drop pod we could assault from.

Or just make that a part of the Mark of Khorne or Slaanesh with a slight points upgrade: Units can assault from deepstrike or from Transports if they didn't shoot that turn.

Khorne because their fury carries them into battle, Slaanesh because of their grace allowing them to not be effected by the movements of the Vehicle( or whatever)

How many points is a Rhino Advancer?

For all the newbs who thinks it looks weird or never heard of an open top rhino.

It'd be more fitting IMO to have Rhinos gain access to an assault ramps vehicle upgrade that changes it into an assault vehicle for 15 points. That way it can still look normal and not draw too many parallels with other factions' vehicles.

Be cool to get a new model that has a front ramp kinda like the ww2 landing craft, but with wheels.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
Be cool to get a new model that has a front ramp kinda like the ww2 landing craft, but with wheels.

We have those already. They're called land raiders.

except land raiders are massively over costed, especially the Godhammer pattern with it's schizoid weapon load out. GW for some reason puts way to much stock and cost into being able to assault out of a vehicle.

I have often thought of something like this but for my AM Chimeras.

Either a vehicle upgrade/downgrade to closed/open top.

and/or

Some kind of rule to say

-When hatches are open. The vehicle is open topped. People can shoot from open hatches but vehicle suffers open topped damage penalty's.

-When hatches are closed. The vehicle is not open topped and people can't fire from hatches.

I think this or something like this used to be a thing in 40K?

To be fair, it almost is worth the value GW puts on it - how many assault units are there that just flat-out fail without a delivery system? But, Stormravens and Land Raiders are somewhat too expensive for their primary purpose being assault delivery. I'd like at least Chaos, and maybe Imperium armies too, to have some kind of cheap, squishy assault transport. It serves Orks and Dark Eldar well enough, after all.

The main issue I have with the raider or the stormraven is they have a bunch of stuff that should cost points but i don't really want. The reason the Rhino is such a good transport for many units is that it's cheap because it isn't bloated with a bunch of guns or special rules.

The land raider kinda sucks cause it doesn't know what it wants to do. It has long range weapons that are at cross purpose and the ability to shot an extra weapon. It also has the ability to deliver a combat unit into the fray. It pays for both and ends up being bloated cost wise. I might take one if I could strip all the weapons off and get a discount for that.

Conceptually:

Open Topped (top ripped off)
AV10/10/10 (Structurally unsound)
No weapons (went with the top)

Not sure if any upgrades would be permitted.

How many points would you think that'd be? 45 is my first thought.

Fluffwise/looks wise? Take a Rhino. Cut up/off large sections of the tops/sides (don't just leave pieces off). The top has *literally* been ripped off.

Heck, If the driver is exposed, you could model him as fusing with the Rhino or something.

And for a more camy reference, we could call them Khornes Convertibles.

Open Topped is definately more positive than negative for transports in general. Add to it that it carries MEQs, who care about Flamers a hell of a lot less than Kalabites/Wyches/Harlies, every CSM typically carries a gun, and the unit really wants to assault, and its obvious it should cost more and/or have additional weaknesses.

The big downside of Open-Topped, to me, is not that meltas blow up the vehicle more easily, but that heavy bolters can blow it up now. Spamguns become notably more effective. Though, the upsides are still pretty big.

For an assauly heavy MEQ army, those explosions are hardly damaging. Just play as if you expect it to explode turn 2, and you're good.

Don't forget that with an Open-topped vehicle, every unit can shoot out of it. Now that might not make much of a difference for an assaulty CSM build, but imagine putting a unit of Havocs in there with 4 autocannons. Or a unit of chosen ones with 4 special weapons. That's another layer of protection for them.

Open topped rhino's do exist already. They cost 37 points : D

Bharring wrote:


And for a more camy reference, we could call them Khornes Convertibles.

Why not just Khornvertibles?