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So not that Id like to hurt assualt EVEN MORE(As I am A Huge fan of Necron Warriors in assualt. They never fail me ) but I think that overwatch should be at BS2 if you shot at the unit assualting you the turn before. Mostly because I think cinematically not balance wise. Because if you were already aiming and opening fire into a unit running at you, I think it wouldnt quite be snap shots... more volleys of fire/holding down the trigger until the enemy is rushing into your units position and wreaking havoc with CCWs and Pistols. . Thoughts?

A big no from me, I would assume that the initial volley shot at the enemy unit in the shooting phase would be the one where you went full auto/emptied their clips in unison, overwatch helps represent reactive fire disparately shot at will while their weapons are recharging/reloading which isn't easy when there's a foe charging at you. You already get overwatch for free with no penalties (I personally think you should be able to pass a leadership test first or have it occur at full BS while preventing said unit from firing again in the following shooting phase), no need to make it more punishing than it already is for assault units.

Also this causes issues with units that already fire at BS2 during overwatch like Dark Angels with their grim resolve rule.

In looking at it and playing a lot of 40k I'm wondering if over watch might be best used as a usr rather than something everyone is assumed to be able to do. For instance we could completely change how we do assault reactions.

Unit A charges unit B

Unit B does not have any rules to defend them against charges

Unit A gets to charge them unmolested

-OR (same rule system)-

Unit C charges Unit D

Unit D has the Over watch USR and therefore can fire over watch

Unit D elects to fire over watch and has two options
a) snap fire at the charging unit
b) attempt a leadership check to fire at full BS (if failed no shots)

Regardless of what unit D decides they can not fire during their next shooting phase (but could fire if say the unit that charged them hit and runs out of the unit then charges back in)

-AND (same rule system, but change to counter attack)-

Unit X charges unit Y

Unit Y has the Counter Attack ability and elects to make a counter attack

Unit Y has two options
a) Receive +1 attack as now for all models as now
b) Take a leadership test to be able to immediately be able to move all of your models in the combat that have the rule forward up to 3" and your unit is also treated as having charged (HoW, Rage, Furious Charge, Split Profile Weapons etc. all trigger) if leadership check is failed then you receive no benefit from the counter attack rule.

Also you can't gain the advantage of both Over watch and Counter Attack in the same charge reaction. I think this would look super cool and thematic on the board and empower some units, while balancing most. I think units like Dire Avengers, Guardsman Vets, Space Marines of every description (more or less) would be the types of units to get over watch, where as units like Space Wolves, Daemons, and Khorne Berzerkers would have the new and improved counter attack.

Not being able to fire in your turn, because you fired over-watch sounds awful.
Assigning it as a USR, its basically already done, slow and purposeful. Most the troops we play with are highly disciplined "shock troops," capable of returning fire, albeit worse with the units charging in. what would probably benefit assault more is if the unit always charges from the front model, regardless of wounds taken from over-watch. the unit charged gets the benefit of reducing the number of units/wounds charging, but assault is relevant/good again.

FireSkullz2 wrote:
So not that Id like to hurt assualt EVEN MORE(As I am A Huge fan of Necron Warriors in assualt. They never fail me ) but I think that overwatch should be at BS2 if you shot at the unit assualting you the turn before. Mostly because I think cinematically not balance wise. Because if you were already aiming and opening fire into a unit running at you, I think it wouldnt quite be snap shots... more volleys of fire/holding down the trigger until the enemy is rushing into your units position and wreaking havoc with CCWs and Pistols. . Thoughts?

Remember Tau? Remember how they can easily get 60+ shots on you when they overwatch? Now make Overwatch BS2.


On a scale of 1 to Nagash, I am dead.

so of the 60+ shots (which max squad of strikers (108 pts) cadre fireblade (60pts and only buffs if they didn't move) ethereal (50 pts and victory point if dies) is 218 points still maxes out at 52 shots) involving more than 1 squad (a minimum of 4 to get the last 8 shots, 36 points, but most likely more) against a meq will get 10 hits, will be 6 wounds, will be 4 saves with 3+ armor, and took out a shopping 24 points in SM. yipee.. and in most situations, that striker squad is toast.
Sorry, if you're in a situation to charge tau, and you left them with any marker lights left, that is your own tactical error.

I still think the best proposed overwatch amendment should be an initiative test. It would be fluffy and interesting.

An initiative test to over watch at bs2, full bs, or at all?

Initiative test? Well... Eldar and Dark Eldar will practically always get to Overwatch, and Space Marines will succeed more often than not. Orks, Necrons and Tau? Almost never...

Initiative test to preform normal overwatch (i.e., usually snap fire) is what I've heard before. It would be particularly unpleasant for tau and necrons - orks would be ok as most groups have an I3 nob.

And as with all things 40k, it would favor eldar, but I thought it would make things a little interesting.

Maybe you can use overwatch to give a boost to some weapons that now suck. I.e. if you may fire overwatch at full BS with pistols, those 15 pts for a plasma pistol would be justified while heavy weapons could be denied overwatch. And so on

I Wish you had to take a leadership check or something for overwatch. As is it's such a freebie on top of getting a shooting phase. I don't know if I like the I test cause that screws Tau and shooting well is their hat.

It makes me sad that assault is so garbage this addition unless your a tooled up deathstar.

That math-hammer is good, but now apply it to a unit that doesn't wear power armour.
Yes, marines can tank overwatch pretty well, but what about the softer assault units like Orks, nids, Tyranid etc.

Overwatch is fine as it is.
Everyone being able to fire at BS2 will wreck alot of the glass hammer assault units.



Personally I don't see any changes that won't result in it being more complicated than it needs to be or breaking it.

Fair enough Jackal, if we modify it slightly for 4+ armor, so say eldar units, 8 wounds, 4 saves, so better, armor 5+ is ignored so 8 deaths.
No body liked the charge range is always from the closest model distance, even if removed by overwatch (so if closest model before overwatch is 3" away, and he gets killed so next is 4", they still only need 3")
Or make dedicated assault only units (hormagaunts, warp talons, etc) able to run and charge as they cannot possibly shoot.