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Preface: This Is my first attempt to build a proper army to do battle with what i have on hand. I have one unit of the stormfang transport ship, that my neighbors are allowing me to use as a gunship, since i own it and it was actually my first 40k purchase before i found the dark angels. I then picked up a couple rhinos and a vinidcator as well as a unit of rw bikes to see if i liked putting bikes together or not, as that is a focus of this chapter, as it will be as much a bike force as can take bikes. Yesterday i acquired 2 DA worth of the Dark Vengeance sets. thats it for troops. I did customize the two sgt's that came in the boxes by removing their arms and adding on the extra arm holding the handlebar i had, basically demoting them to normal bikers.. As my initial build of the bikers was precodex, i gave two of the three power swords and used alot of relics and such on them, bronzed painted them, so they are my sgt's now)

135 Balthsar (Company Master, Termi armor, Relic Blade, Plasma Gun)
090 Turmiel (Librarian, PSyker Force/Smite, default weapons)
480 DW Terminator Squad A ( SGT w/ PSword Storm bolter, 1 Termi w/ Assault Gun pfist, 1 termi w chain fist stormbolter, 2 termi w p fist storm bolter)
115 RW Bike Squad A (1 RW vet sgt power sword, 1 rw biker w plasma gun, 1 rw biker)
115 RW Bike Squad 2 (1 RW vet sgt power sword, 1 rw biker w plasma gun, 1 rw biker)
140 Vindicator A (1 Vindi, Siege Shield, Extra Armor)
055 Rhino A (1 Rhino, Extra armor, HK Missle)
114 Tactical Squad A (1 sgt w chain sword plasma pistol, 1 marine plasma cannon, 4 marine boltguns)
=1244
750 Thunderhawk gunship -stock (thunderfang reskinned)
=1994/2000

For the same cost as the Gunship i could take the following.

480 DW Termi Squad A (Could take a 2nd squad of these guys)
075 +3 RW Bikers to squad 1
050 Rhino B (1 Rhino, Extra Armor stormbolter)
071(+1 Marine w Plasma Pistol, +3 Marine w Boltgun to Tactical Squad A)
070 Tactical Squad B (1 sgt, 4 marine w bolt gun)


I am new to this, so i am not sure which would be the better bet. I talked the neighbors into playing at 2k so i could use the gunship, but they prefer 1850.
I dont know what it matters, they all have multiple thousands of points of various armies, the two with orks both have stompas..

any advice for kitting these guys out or to take the gunship or many extra troops.

Why are the terminator squads so expensive? Is it a 10 man squad?

Stalked21 wrote:
Why are the terminator squads so expensive? Is it a 10 man squad?

probably to shoehorn his army into a bigger points bracket then he has buisness being in. but hey if their letting him proxy as a thunderhawk thats about all the justification he needs to bring them, that think pretty much makes up for the fact that the rest of his army is a mishmash of beginners boxes and stuff he bought off ebay for cheap. essentially the thunderhawk is carrying the list much like how heldrakes used to cover for chaos marines in 6th edition.

normally id comment myself on this list but its such a mishmash of random stuff ill cover the basics here of building a list:

company master: he cant take a plasma gun, if hes in tda its a stormbolter or you get a combi-weapon (no combi-grav), or you get one of the relic guns (foe smiter or lions roar).

rhino: dont buy HK missiles.. like ever i mean this their terrible

tacticals if you can take your mind off terminators for a bit you can make this army battle forged by taking one more squad of tactical marines, swap the plasma gun guy for the plasma cannon and use the cannon team as notdevestators, or get some scouts a new box of marine scouts with rifles and a rocket launcher is 25 bucks canadian. worth every penny

ravenwing bikes: veterans sargent upgrades arent really worth it if you arent paying for a weapons upgrade for cc, and always always always go axe, power maul or something more expensive, the sword is pointless without a pistol which he cant also have

librarian, i am of the opion librarians for dark angels have a pecking order for magic ill cover it briefly:
1 divination (cause presience and perfect timing are broken as heck)
2 interromancy (cause its incredible against some armies, practically has orks beat themselves and thematic)
3 telepathy (if you have the mastery upgrade or its big zeke) for invisible
4??
700 everything else: because youve covered your essentials

telekenisis is rather forgetable, and pyromancy's one saving grace is molten beam, deamonology and sanctific are really meant for magic heavier armies to gamble on then wee mortal space marines and well we cant take biomancy

For the point costs. I took the Dark Angel Roster off the 2x Dark Vengeance boxes that i got on Monday. the duplicate copy of Balthasar and Turmiel went to my neighbor who split the boxes with me to use as bits for his chaos guys to "eat", the thunderhawk from the 40k wiki/google link/boltnhammer posts and the other bikers/rhinos/vindi from the da codex.

I took the listing of their my troops gears and added it up based on units in the codex (exactly number of troops/gear i have atm represented on the minatures. I even hacked the arms off the two raphael's that i got to turn him into a pair of normal bikers.

About a year ago i purchased the stormfang ship to use for my players in one of the pathfinder games characters ship. Then i picked up a couple rhinos and the vindicator to use as enemy vehicles, and that 1st bike squad to use for allied bikers (that i bronzed).
I got the codex a couple weeks ago and have been debating jumping in or not. I cant do something halfassed.

I am trying to make myself a functioning army out of what i have. I appreciate that they are letting me use the stormfang as a thunderhawk, i have angel-fied it with bits. The guys and gals across the street ill be playing with prefer to play 1850. I asked if we could try a few 2000 point battles, as i have over that much in points and have never played something of that scale ever and i would like my first read DA match to be a big one.. Lucky me to move in just down the street from a house with two couples that all have multiple armies.

Ive got No issues going to one of the game workshop stores round here tonight, to pick up some more squads to round things out better. The above is just based on what i own atm. Nothings from ebay yet.. it was actually all bought at retail out here. ive put most of it together myself, neighbor is teaching me to paint them.

Co Master is a combi-plasma gun. i misstyped, forgive me im new so i didnt notice it was an uneligable weapon..

Rhino: when i got the RW bikes they gave me those two extra missile launchers, i just stuck them onto one of the rhino's because i had them and thought they looked good there.

Terminators - i would be fine without them, i just have them on my gaming table atm.

Not sure what battle forged means. Im a newby trying to jump in head first and hopefully swim. There is no kitty footing around for the space marines.

Easy enough to grab 2 tactical marine boxes to add another squad. can also pick up the scouts. thats cheep for them.

RW Bikes, Roger that about the Vet Sgt, axe or Thunder Hammers for them in future. The sword just came with the kit and i assumed, thanks for correcting me.

The Librarian is Turmiel that came with the Dark Vengeance. just took the same cost as the named librarian in the DA Codex.

Thanks for the help in tweaking the DakkaDakka of this army.

the concept of battle forged is important for a spcae marines that isnt codex space marines because we dont have make x (x being a unit like bikes or assault marines or sternguard) troops choices. when playing objective games tactical marines and scouts have a special hidden rule (when battle forged) called objective secured. when they are on an objective they have priority when determining who controls the objective and unless they are moved off of it or another troops choice comes along you count as scoring not them. and that includes dedicated transport. you can not take a second troops choice but then you lose this background effect.

this is important because unlike orcs who can spam troops choices and be fine, or codex space marines.. err.. marines we dont get to make specialists units troops either.

as a marine your strengths come from your specialist units, your tanks your veterans your fast heavy and elite slots. our troops are a precious commodity we cant really spam and be combat effective (lions blade can do it but thats a long way off from being practical for you)

our strength as dark angels comes from how our specialists interact with eachother and our commanders. our librarians magic working in time with our bikes or terminators, our tanks and speeders softening up units for veterans and assault marines to finish up, our dark talon bogging down a big ugly unit with his time bomb or capturing it in a vortex blast to inflict all kinds of damage youll need to learn them for yourself as theres all sorts of these hidden in the army and require careful reading, and you know seeing what people around you are playing to find what works for you

I've done a bit of looking into the battleforged system and picked up some more men for the chapter.

This weekend I'll clash with orcs or dark Eldar and 1 or 2 necron. 3 or 4 way battle this weekend 3121 points is what I can muster and they are going to match so that I can see how crazy a battle is with more than 1850 points. Here is my unit distribution.

Rw strike force 705 points.
Hq azmodai, on bike.
Fast: rw bike squad
1 vet Sgt power sword, melts bomb.
2 rw bikers plasma gun
3 rw bikers.
1 rw atk bike multi-melta.
Fast: rw bike squad
1 vet Sgt power sword melts bomb.
2 rw bikers.
Elite: rw command squad.
1 rw apothecary
1 black knight w rw company banner rw grenade launcher.
1 black knights w sacred banner rw grenade launcher.

Rw attack squadron 250
1 rw landspeeder mm typhoon
3 rw atk bike mm

Rw support squadron 350
1 rw darkshroud assault cannon
3 rw landspeeders mm typhoon

Dw strike force. 725
Hq: company master terminator armor, combine plasma, relic blade, meltabombs bomb.
Elite: 2× dw terminator squad.
1 dq terminator Sgt power sword, storm bolter.
1 terminators chain fist stormbolter.
1 terminator power fist assault cannon
2 terminators power fist stormbolter
Hq: librarian psyker, terminator armor, force sword, combo plasma meltabomb.

Combined arms 1105
Hq : azrael.
Hq: Ezekiel
Troop: tactical squad x2
1,vet Sgt thammer plasma pistol meltabomb.
1 marine w plasma gun.
1 marine w plasma cannon.
6 marine w boltgun.
Dedicated transport: rhino, extra armor X2
Heavy: 2 vindicator siege shield extra armor stormbolter.



That should help some with the bonuses, for being battleforged and give me good feel for what I'd like to do with play units.

Dont have enough hammers to change out the bikers until I get some guys that have them.. not using stormfang as I don't have enough wolves to use allied detachment. other then that hope that this army is fun to play.


Thanks for taking the time out of your dakkadakka to help mine.

I don't even know where to start but I'll try anyway.

-Asmodai can't take a bike
-Veteran upgrades are often a waste on biker sergeants, so are melee weapons because these guys are made for dakka, not choppa
-You seriously need to get special weapons on all your bike squads
-Plasma guns on bikers are a bad idea because Black Knights do the whole plasma thing a LOT better
-Always run Command Squads with max bikers
-NEVER have more than one RW Grenade Launcher in one unit
-The Sacred Banner is worthless on bikes because you already are Relentless. Your speed should make sure that you can charge every turn, eliminating the need for Counter-Attack
-The Darkshroud is going to always be jinking so don't waste points on the Assault Cannon
-Boost your Librarian to mastery level 2
-Azrael is just plain and simple not worth it in this army. He's an excellent power multiplier for big, weak squads but only ends up being a waste of points here
-You don't want to get into close combat with your Tactical Marines so don't waste any points on melee weapons. Plasma pistols are never worth the points
-Plasma Cannons are terribad heavy weapons, especially on Tactical Marines
-Extra Armour is most likely not worth it, Rhinos will either get glanced to bits or just simply blown up. Extra armour does NOT increase the AV of the vehicle
-Get a third Vindicator to take advantage of the Linebreaker Bombardment

Wasn't sure. Then he's replaced with interrogator chaplain bike mace of redemption.
Yeah I've read that but the two sgts I've got are bronzed and I have no first hand experience with how bad they suck at choppa. So for learning figured it be ok.

I'll change the plasma guns to grav guns on the bikers.

Only have one set of the command squad, intending to purchase 11 more packs of them and sableclaw in a couple weeks.

Roger that, assumed two was better then one, with only 3 black knights in the cmd squad.

Roger that also for play unit, I'm also building the whole chapter.. so for display use need one w both banners.

Good to know, I'll change that out asap.

Librarian is level 2, that's the psychker thing.

Roger that.. if I was running a full lions blades strike force or couple companies then I'd use azrael?

Tactical are more of the dakka, do not choppa with them. I'll adjust after seeing how awful they are tomarrow.

Grav pistol then instead of the plasma pistol.

What do you recommend grav cannon w grav amp or missile launcher for the tactical marines?

I assumed extra armor granted +1 HP. I see why it's not really worth it, 3 tings and it's gone, I'd hoped it was 4.

Intending on actually getting 28 more of them to fill the chapters 10 vindicator units in the armory.


Thank you kindly for your assistance in helping me learn.

ssisal wrote:
Wasn't sure. Then he's replaced with interrogator chaplain bike mace of redemption.
Yeah I've read that but the two sgts I've got are bronzed and I have no first hand experience with how bad they suck at choppa. So for learning figured it be ok.

I'll change the plasma guns to grav guns on the bikers.

Only have one set of the command squad, intending to purchase 11 more packs of them and sableclaw in a couple weeks.

Roger that, assumed two was better then one, with only 3 black knights in the cmd squad.

Roger that also for play unit, I'm also building the whole chapter.. so for display use need one w both banners.

Good to know, I'll change that out asap.

Librarian is level 2, that's the psychker thing.

Roger that.. if I was running a full lions blades strike force or couple companies then I'd use azrael?

Tactical are more of the dakka, do not choppa with them. I'll adjust after seeing how awful they are tomarrow.

Grav pistol then instead of the plasma pistol.

What do you recommend grav cannon w grav amp or missile launcher for the tactical marines?

I assumed extra armor granted +1 HP. I see why it's not really worth it, 3 tings and it's gone, I'd hoped it was 4.

Intending on actually getting 28 more of them to fill the chapters 10 vindicator units in the armory.


Thank you kindly for your assistance in helping me learn.

Grav guns are indeed the better choice on bikers, because they get to fire the full amount of shots regardless of moving. I'd suggest you get Sammael on Corvex instead of Sableclaw, I can't think of any scenario where the Speeder would be the preferable alternative. Plasma Talons are lethal weapons and the launcher is there mostly to debuff your enemies with the stasis shell before you charge them. I'd say that Azrael is only good when you have an allied Imperial Guard army with a massive infantry blob that he can give the 4++ save to. I've tried using him in a biker army too to buff my Command Squad (it's not as stupid as it sounds, the unit's mobility is increased by a lot when you Scout and with Sammael's warlord trait + 4D6 Hit and Run provided by the RW banner). Play Azrael if you want to, maybe you'll figure a good way to use him. He's not the worst named character in the game but certainly not a CC monster like some others are. Also, watch out for instant death, he's not an Eternal Warrior. Azzy might be good if you drop a Command Squad or a Company Vet Squad in a pod behind the enemy lines. Buy a Combi-grav instead of the pistol, you get more shots out of it and it's cheaper. Same goes for Grav-cannon, you can still move and shoot with it. It's a lot more expensive but most likely worth the investment.

Thanks for advice.

I ran it as I posted above roughly 3100 points.
Played against the sisters of battle. Buddy has 3k ultramarine, 2900 orks, 3150 sister, and 2800 of something else.

I went first. R1 chaser is out scouting. No contact w enemy.

R2 his Russ took out my rw banner.
I popped a rhino

R23lost a couple bikers and one landspeeder.

R4 I lost some deathwing, one squad survived 1 the other with 4 of 5 guys. And librarian fell to his angel. And both the apothecary rw and black knights champion died

R5 I lost most of tactical squad 1, only vet Sgt w tamer left, squad the 2 lost 1 grun5. And a speeder.

All in all I stood tall with 1911 points at the end. I'm not sure how I did for point dmg to him, was more for fun than bragging rights.

What I learned. Librarian turmiel can't hurt the angel, warp effects are interesting. .
Rw support squadron was kinda a pain for me. Kept rolling bad on the reserve roll that even the +/- 1 on roll had no effect. They came in r5.
Dw strike force came in and popped a rhino and the squad inside.
I learned that azrael is a cc beast and so is ezikeal, tact vet Sgt was effective for me. Just need a melee that is not unwieldy so goes faster than 1+1.

Big things I need are 1 vindicator, 1 black knights to fill the cmd squad, 1 more atk bike, 1 rw biker unit,.sammael on the hover bike. And a proper bike n interragator chaplain. And change out the wpn load outs on everyone.


The game was awesome and alot of fun. We called it a draw. I see now why 1850 is the standard. Simply for time factor.