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Walkers get bonus attacks for each extra weapon they have, but specialist weapons only get bonus attacks with other specialist weapons.

If a walker has a mixture of melee weapons, with one (or more) being specialist weapons, but others being regular weapons, how would the rules interaction resolve?

Specialist weapon rule takes precedent?

The answer is right in Specialist Weapon.
"A model fighting with this weapon does not receive +1 Attack for fighting with two weapons unless it is armed with two or more Melee weapons with the Specialist Weapon rule."

If any of your weapons is a specialist weapon, you will not receive +1 attack unless you are using 2 specialist weapons.

And Walkers only gain +1 bonus attack for each additional weapon after the first. Not for each weapon they have (specialist weapons still require 2).

HondaDaBest wrote:
The answer is right in Specialist Weapon.
"A model fighting with this weapon does not receive +1 Attack for fighting with two weapons unless it is armed with two or more Melee weapons with the Specialist Weapon rule."

If any of your weapons is a specialist weapon, you will not receive +1 attack unless you are using 2 specialist weapons.

Not quite accurate. Specialist Weapon does not come in to play if the Weapon with this Type is not also in play.

A Power Weapon does not have Specialist Weapon, but would still get +1 Attack if the model has a Power Fist, but ONLY when wielding the Power Weapon.

I'm not so sure.

Specialist Weapon
"A model fighting with this weapon does not receive +1 Attack for fighting with two weapons unless it is armed with two or more Melee weapons with the Specialist Weapon rule."

Special Rules always overwrite basic rules.
The Basic Rule is, you get +1A if you are engaged and have two single-handed weapons.
While the Power weapon is a single-handed weapon, it is also a specialist weapon.

I guess it all comes down to what, exactly, does "fighting with this weapon" mean.
Does it mean using it to claim +1A as the 'off-hand'?
Does it mean using the weapon as the 'main-hand'?
Predictably, the BRB doesn't say...

HondaDaBest wrote:
I'm not so sure.

Specialist Weapon
"A model fighting with this weapon does not receive +1 Attack for fighting with two weapons unless it is armed with two or more Melee weapons with the Specialist Weapon rule."

Special Rules always overwrite basic rules.
The Basic Rule is, you get +1A if you are engaged and have two single-handed weapons.
While the Power weapon is a single-handed weapon, it is also a specialist weapon.

I guess it all comes down to what, exactly, does "fighting with this weapon" mean.
Does it mean using it to claim +1A as the 'off-hand'?
Does it mean using the weapon as the 'main-hand'?
Predictably, the BRB doesn't say...

Read "More Than One Weapon". The special rules of weapons are not allowed to be mixed and matched. If you are using a Power Weapon, Specialist Weapon is not allowed to be used so is not in affect. If you are using a Power Fist, Specialist Weapon is in play so would be in affect.

Charistoph wrote:

HondaDaBest wrote:
I'm not so sure.

Specialist Weapon
"A model fighting with this weapon does not receive +1 Attack for fighting with two weapons unless it is armed with two or more Melee weapons with the Specialist Weapon rule."

Special Rules always overwrite basic rules.
The Basic Rule is, you get +1A if you are engaged and have two single-handed weapons.
While the Power weapon is a single-handed weapon, it is also a specialist weapon.

I guess it all comes down to what, exactly, does "fighting with this weapon" mean.
Does it mean using it to claim +1A as the 'off-hand'?
Does it mean using the weapon as the 'main-hand'?
Predictably, the BRB doesn't say...

Read "More Than One Weapon". The special rules of weapons are not allowed to be mixed and matched. If you are using a Power Weapon, Specialist Weapon is not allowed to be used so is not in affect. If you are using a Power Fist, Specialist Weapon is in play so would be in affect.

Correct. A model armed with a Power Fist and Power Sword gets +1A when fighting with the Power Sword. He does not get +1A when fighting with the Power Fist. You only pay attention to a weapon's special rules when actually using that weapon to fight, i.e. to make attacks.

Those space crusade squad leaders will be glad about that then.

I think you guys misunderstood me.
Lets say you have a Power Fist and a Chainsword model:
-Use Power Fist => No +1A (completely agreed)
-Use Chainsword => +1A?
That's what I was confused about.

For Specialist Weapon, it says a "model fighting with this weapon".
The BRB doesn't really say what "fighting with this weapon" means.
If you are attacking with a Chainsword and use the Power Fist to claim +1A on the Chainsword, does it count as "fighting with the weapon" to gain +1A?
If it does, it would mean the Chainsword can't use the Power Fist to gain +1A.
The BRB doesn't say that fighting with the weapon means to make attacks with that weapon. Or else specialist weapon would read "a model attacking with this weapon".
This is what I meant by saying it isn't clear.

To everyone else, the question has already been answered. Please dis-regard as I am just nit-picking now, trying to understand the rules.
Because if you paid for a specialist weapon on the model, why would you ever use a CCW weapon instead of the specialist weapon? There is almost never a reason to do...

HondaDaBest wrote:
Because if you paid for a specialist weapon on the model, why would you ever use a CCW weapon instead of the specialist weapon? There is almost never a reason to do...

Usually it's used to give a greater chance to stay locked in combat on your turn's assault phase (by lessening the chance of killing enemy models), or avoid a penetrating hit and subsequent explosion of a vehicle at a +1 modifier.

Not the most common occurrence, but a potentially beneficial tactical option.

DoW

In those cases, you would want to not be able to claim the +1A.
That could actually be pretty beneficial...

I guess it's not as irrelevant as I thought. Nice point.

HondaDaBest wrote:
I think you guys misunderstood me.
Lets say you have a Power Fist and a Chainsword model:
-Use Power Fist => No +1A (completely agreed)
-Use Chainsword => +1A?
That's what I was confused about.

For Specialist Weapon, it says a "model fighting with this weapon".
The BRB doesn't really say what "fighting with this weapon" means.
If you are attacking with a Chainsword and use the Power Fist to claim +1A on the Chainsword, does it count as "fighting with the weapon" to gain +1A?
If it does, it would mean the Chainsword can't use the Power Fist to gain +1A.
The BRB doesn't say that fighting with the weapon means to make attacks with that weapon. Or else specialist weapon would read "a model attacking with this weapon".
This is what I meant by saying it isn't clear.

The answer is here, where I referenced earlier in Weapons > More Than One Weapon:

If a model has more than one Melee weapon, he must choose which one to attack with when he comes to strike blows – he cannot mix and match the abilities of several different Melee weapons.

If you are not using the Power Fist, you are not using the Specialist Weapon rule any more than you are using Unwieldy or the x2 Str. Therefore, it is not in affect so does not apply to a Power Weapon, Pistol, or Chainsword the model may be carrying.

HondaDaBest wrote:
To everyone else, the question has already been answered. Please dis-regard as I am just nit-picking now, trying to understand the rules.
Because if you paid for a specialist weapon on the model, why would you ever use a CCW weapon instead of the specialist weapon? There is almost never a reason to do...

Aside from DoW's case, there is also the case that base I is faster than what you are facing in Combat, but the foe is deadly enough to make sure the Power Fist does not hit, but the +1A may allow you to kill him first and save your Power Fist model.

So a helbrute with power scourge and thunder hammer gets +1 attack while using the non specialist scourge, but only his base attacks when using the specialist thunder hammer?

Okay just to extend this because its blown my mind.

Say you have a powerfist and a pistol could you choose to use the pistol as a ccw and therefore have the +1A?

 Samuhell wrote:
Okay just to extend this because its blown my mind.

Say you have a powerfist and a pistol could you choose to use the pistol as a ccw and therefore have the +1A?

Since the Pistol counts as a CCW in the Assualt Phase, yes. It wouldn't be much, but sometimes hitting something at your base Initiative is better than hitting really hard and ignoring Armour.

Fairly often the extra, faster, attack is better than overkill with less attacks. Guardsmen and orks are good examples; both have a lower I than a marine and especially guardsmen do not need the s8 hit to kill(and neither get a good save).

I love it when marine opponents hit with the fist against my blobs, that is 1 less dead guy on my side.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
Fairly often the extra, faster, attack is better than overkill with less attacks. Guardsmen and orks are good examples; both have a lower I than a marine and especially guardsmen do not need the s8 hit to kill(and neither get a good save).

I love it when marine opponents hit with the fist against my blobs, that is 1 less dead guy on my side.

While that's true, it's a very small statistical difference for unsaved wounds for models with 1 base attack.

2 attacks with a S4, AP- weapon needing 3s to hit a WS3, T3 Guardsman with a 5+ is a 0.59 chance for an unsaved wound.
1 attack with a S8, AP2 weapon needing 3s to hit a WS3, T3 Guardsman with a 5+ is a 0.56 chance for an unsaved wound.

If it's a PF on a Marine model with more than 1 base attack, it's actually statistically more favorable to use the fist (0.89 vs 1.11 unsaved wounds for 2 base attacks).

The initiative is an issue (especially with Marines vs. Guardsman blobs) and the S8 is quite overkill, but I thought it was interesting to see the maths.

DoW