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1. Move psyker abilities back to the shooting phase

2. Psykers who are locked in close combat shouldn't be able to use psyker abilities.

The fact that the latter rule isn't a thing just is mind boggling.

Traditio wrote:
1. Move psyker abilities back to the shooting phase

2. Psykers who are locked in close combat shouldn't be able to use psyker abilities.

The fact that the latter rule isn't a thing just is mind boggling.

1. No. Psykers are too important both from a background/lore perspective, and from a gameplay standpoint.

2. No using any form of Witchfire power, sure. No powers at all? That's a massively unnecessary nerf.


Really, the only problem right now with Psykers in general are;
- Summoning in the form of Tzeentch Clown Car lists.
Solution? Pink Horrors are the main problem, as they were given access to Malefic. Simply remove that option, and suddenly you cut down on half or more of the 'summoners' within a typical Tzeentch Clown Car army...
notice how no one complains about Slaanesh or Nurgle summon farms? Because their casters are limited entirely to Greaters/Heralds/Princes.

- Invisibility being too godly, especially when cast on an already obnoxious Deathstar unit.
Solution? Replace "may only make Snap Shots" with "count as shooting as BS1". Suddenly, templates become the proper hard-counter they're really meant to be, and blast templates are suddenly usable as well.


The other problem(s), such as Daemons being able to generate a frankly ridiculous amount of Warp Charges are simply codex issues, and should be fixed within each specific codex.

Traditio wrote:
1. Move psyker abilities back to the shooting phase

2. Psykers who are locked in close combat shouldn't be able to use psyker abilities.

The fact that the latter rule isn't a thing just is mind boggling.

3. All Tactical Marines are now psykers.

Experiment 626 wrote:

Traditio wrote:
1. Move psyker abilities back to the shooting phase

2. Psykers who are locked in close combat shouldn't be able to use psyker abilities.

The fact that the latter rule isn't a thing just is mind boggling.

1. No. Psykers are too important both from a background/lore perspective, and from a gameplay standpoint.

2. No using any form of Witchfire power, sure. No powers at all? That's a massively unnecessary nerf.


Really, the only problem right now with Psykers in general are;
- Summoning in the form of Tzeentch Clown Car lists.
Solution? Pink Horrors are the main problem, as they were given access to Malefic. Simply remove that option, and suddenly you cut down on half or more of the 'summoners' within a typical Tzeentch Clown Car army...
notice how no one complains about Slaanesh or Nurgle summon farms? Because their casters are limited entirely to Greaters/Heralds/Princes.

- Invisibility being too godly, especially when cast on an already obnoxious Deathstar unit.
Solution? Replace "may only make Snap Shots" with "count as shooting as BS1". Suddenly, templates become the proper hard-counter they're really meant to be, and blast templates are suddenly usable as well.


The other problem(s), such as Daemons being able to generate a frankly ridiculous amount of Warp Charges are simply codex issues, and should be fixed within each specific codex.

I agree here, Pink Horrors need to go back to having a shooting attack and summoning should, quite frankly, not exist. Im of the frame of thought that we should go back to buying Psychic powers instead of rolling for them, and some of the really bad ones (invisibility) need to get reworked.

Experiment 626 wrote:1. No. Psykers are too important both from a background/lore perspective, and from a gameplay standpoint.

Please explain to me why a psyker would have time to fire a shooting weapon AND use magic spells in the exact same amount of time that anyone else would only have to fire a shooting weapon.

Realistically, you should have to pick one or the other.

2. No using any form of Witchfire power, sure. No powers at all? That's a massively unnecessary nerf.

Close combat constitutes enough of an immanent threat/distraction that my marine can't fire his boltgun, but a psyker apparently can do his magics just fine?

Please explain that to me.

Traditio wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:1. No. Psykers are too important both from a background/lore perspective, and from a gameplay standpoint.

Please explain to me why a psyker would have time to fire a shooting weapon AND use magic spells in the exact same amount of time that anyone else would only have to fire a shooting weapon.

Realistically, you should have to pick one or the other.

2. No using any form of Witchfire power, sure. No powers at all? That's a massively unnecessary nerf.

Close combat constitutes enough of an immanent threat/distraction that my marine can't fire his boltgun, but a psyker apparently can do his magics just fine?

Please explain that to me.

Librarians (I use these because you use Tactical Marines as an example) do not use magicks. Librarians use the warp from shere willpower. They think and the power manifests. They can easily cast hammerhand in CC

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
Librarians (I use these because you use Tactical Marines as an example) do not use magicks. Librarians use the warp from shere willpower. They think and the power manifests. They can easily cast hammerhand in CC

Gray knights?

Traditio wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
Librarians (I use these because you use Tactical Marines as an example) do not use magicks. Librarians use the warp from shere willpower. They think and the power manifests. They can easily cast hammerhand in CC

Gray knights?

Grey Knights

Psykers in 40k are essentially like Super Saiyans. The powers & abilities they use in game terms are the simpler or more basic 'energy attacks'.

The really awesome stuff that can tear open warp rifts, nuke an entire city or three, or even turn whole planets inside out takes too long to prepare & complete during an actual battle.

Traditio wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:1. No. Psykers are too important both from a background/lore perspective, and from a gameplay standpoint.

Please explain to me why a psyker would have time to fire a shooting weapon AND use magic spells in the exact same amount of time that anyone else would only have to fire a shooting weapon.

Realistically, you should have to pick one or the other.

2. No using any form of Witchfire power, sure. No powers at all? That's a massively unnecessary nerf.

Close combat constitutes enough of an immanent threat/distraction that my marine can't fire his boltgun, but a psyker apparently can do his magics just fine?

Please explain that to me.

So once I'm in combat I can't use Force? You just made a lot of powers effectively useless.

HoundsofDemos wrote:

Traditio wrote:

Experiment 626 wrote:1. No. Psykers are too important both from a background/lore perspective, and from a gameplay standpoint.

Please explain to me why a psyker would have time to fire a shooting weapon AND use magic spells in the exact same amount of time that anyone else would only have to fire a shooting weapon.

Realistically, you should have to pick one or the other.

2. No using any form of Witchfire power, sure. No powers at all? That's a massively unnecessary nerf.

Close combat constitutes enough of an immanent threat/distraction that my marine can't fire his boltgun, but a psyker apparently can do his magics just fine?

Please explain that to me.

So once I'm in combat I can't use Force? You just made a lot of powers effectively useless.

Keep in mind this proposal IS coming from the same person who thinks an army of nothing but naked Tactical Marines should be able to bolter Wraithknights & Emperor class Titans into ruin.

I don't fully understand the reasoning for this change. I'm not aware of any psyker who has a strong ranged weapon in addition to their powers. I don't see my lib firing his bolt pistol as that big of a balancing issue. I also like separating the activation of psychic powers from the other phases. It cleans up timing and makes the game more uniform.

HoundsofDemos wrote:
I don't fully understand the reasoning for this change. I'm not aware of any psyker who has a strong ranged weapon in addition to their powers. I don't see my lib firing his bolt pistol as that big of a balancing issue. I also like separating the activation of psychic powers from the other phases. It cleans up timing and makes the game more uniform.

Traditio is a salty Sara. He runs most of his army as naked as can be then complains when he gets murder-stomped by anything resembling a competetive list.

HoundsofDemos wrote:So once I'm in combat I can't use Force? You just made a lot of powers effectively useless.

This is a fair point. It makes sense that psyker powers which are specifically for close combat should be useable within close combat. The obvious way around this is simply to adopt the rule I've suggested and add "this power may be used while the psyker is in close combat" to the force power description.

What doesn't make sense if that a psyker, even though he has a chainsword in his face, should have the ability to fire a witchfire at a completely separate unit, buff another unit or summon a squad of demons.

If my tac marines can't fire bolters in close combat, why should a psyker be able to summon demons, issue buffs or fire witchfires?

And even then, I still think that the psyker should have to choose between shooting and using the force power.

"Do you want to get your lightsaber ready, Luke Skywalker, or do you want to fire your blaster? Pick one."


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Experiment 626 wrote:
Psykers in 40k are essentially like Super Saiyans. The powers & abilities they use in game terms are the simpler or more basic 'energy attacks'.

The really awesome stuff that can tear open warp rifts, nuke an entire city or three, or even turn whole planets inside out takes too long to prepare & complete during an actual battle.

Does simply having access to the warp give them superhuman speed?

How long does it take to pull a trigger?

Traditio wrote:
Does simply having access to the warp give them superhuman speed?

Considering that they're literally thinking, I'd say they can perform a psychic action far than a swung blade or pulled trigger. A thought is all that's required to pull off a psychic manifestation. And after all, the pulling of the trigger also requires aiming, readying, and making sure you don't shoot a teammate in the back.