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A few months ago, the LGS my friend (we'll call him Commissar C) and I would go to closed down. It was a great store, great player base, very relaxed, etc. Always a fun time to go.

Well since that store closed down, I proceeded to go back to my original LGS. Still a great player base, but these guys are on a MUCH higher skill level. Which I'm completely okay with. I'm learning a lot from these guys, I've gotten so much better just in the past few months of being with them again. I'm at the point to where I feel like I could play competitively and actually stand a decent chance. All the while, we're all having a great time hanging out, kicking each other's butts in a game, all that jazz.

Anyways, about a month ago, I invited Commissar C to come with me to this store. Told him all about how great these guys are, how good they are at 40k, etc. We get there, play some games with the other guys..... and he gets repeatedly curb stomped. I expected this to happen. But what I didn't expect to happen is that Commissar C, after getting some very sound advice from these other guys, refused to take any of that advice and put it into practice. When I asked him why, he said it's because he doesn't want to be competitive and just wants to hang out and play. Which is fine except that he will never win another game against most people in that store if he continues this way. Which I feel will eventually turn him off to coming back to that store. And the only other ones nearby are pretty crappy and have some bad player bases.

He's too used to the old store, where we were a lot more lax about certain things. Nobody at the old store really competed other than the occasional person showing up. We had our own little house rules and missions we liked to do. Forge World stuff was typically not used, because very few of us had rules for it or just didn't fully understand their content that well. Maelstrom was all but shunned entirely, and almost every game there was a 2v2 or more (only because there were so few tables and too many players).

I want to help Commissar C. I want him to get better at the game like I've been doing. I want him to actually have fun playing against the other guys at the store. But I have no idea what I can do to help. Any suggestions?

It is his own fault he doesn't want to get better. Anyone not willing to progress their skill level in the hobby isn't someone to have in your hobby circle.

This is a case of trying to fit an apple into a group of oranges. He has no desire to play the game competitively. The LGS is a competitive meta. These things are oil and water.

Did he have fun when he lost? Honestly, it sounds less like you helping him, and more like you wanting to make him like what you like. Friendship doesn't always work that way.

On the other hand, maybe intentionally lose to him, or find parts of the hobby (list building?) that he enjoys, to motivate/encourage him to enjoy the competition.

Yea, it is a bummer he spent money and time to build an army that can't hack it against players who are utilizing their tools and what their army can do better. But, it is his fault for making an army that can't even provide him a good game. I am all about having my list not be super competitive and be based around a back story or a certain theme, but I have never made them so crippling that it can't even make my opponent sweat a little bit or provide me with very close games and the occasional win.

If he isn't willing to make minor changes to keep up, than he should probably find another store.

What advice is he ignoring? Tactical or purchase list?

InquisitorRoeth wrote:
A few months ago, the LGS my friend (we'll call him Commissar C) and I would go to closed down. It was a great store, great player base, very relaxed, etc. Always a fun time to go.

Well since that store closed down, I proceeded to go back to my original LGS. Still a great player base, but these guys are on a MUCH higher skill level. Which I'm completely okay with. I'm learning a lot from these guys, I've gotten so much better just in the past few months of being with them again. I'm at the point to where I feel like I could play competitively and actually stand a decent chance. All the while, we're all having a great time hanging out, kicking each other's butts in a game, all that jazz.

Anyways, about a month ago, I invited Commissar C to come with me to this store. Told him all about how great these guys are, how good they are at 40k, etc. We get there, play some games with the other guys..... and he gets repeatedly curb stomped. I expected this to happen. But what I didn't expect to happen is that Commissar C, after getting some very sound advice from these other guys, refused to take any of that advice and put it into practice. When I asked him why, he said it's because he doesn't want to be competitive and just wants to hang out and play. Which is fine except that he will never win another game against most people in that store if he continues this way. Which I feel will eventually turn him off to coming back to that store. And the only other ones nearby are pretty crappy and have some bad player bases.

He's too used to the old store, where we were a lot more lax about certain things. Nobody at the old store really competed other than the occasional person showing up. We had our own little house rules and missions we liked to do. Forge World stuff was typically not used, because very few of us had rules for it or just didn't fully understand their content that well. Maelstrom was all but shunned entirely, and almost every game there was a 2v2 or more (only because there were so few tables and too many players).

I want to help Commissar C. I want him to get better at the game like I've been doing. I want him to actually have fun playing against the other guys at the store. But I have no idea what I can do to help. Any suggestions?

It sounds like you have the best interests of your friend at heart, but I would suggest that perhaps you are focusing on the wrong thing. Has your friend actually said that he is not having fun? Has he expressed any frustration? It doesn't sound that way. It sounds like you two differ in what you want out of the game. Your friend wants to play casually, and you want to play more competitively. Honestly, you come off sounding like this: "Dear internet, how can I convince my friend that he is having fun wrong?" You shouldn't try to force your friend to change. If your friend told you that you were being too competitive and tried to convince to you play more casually, how would you feel? Probably not great. If your friend wants to play his army in a certain way, that's his choice, and you should respect that. I know that it can be discouraging to get stomped (Ork player here), but as long your friend is enjoying his time that's what's important. As a compromise, you could trying to play a game with him the way he wants to play? Maybe you offer to play a more casual or fluffy list one week, and then next time he agrees to bring a somewhat more competitive list. Just a thought. If your friend decides that he wants to start being more competitive, then he will, when he is ready.

Remember what Oogway said:

You can yell at a peach tree all day long to bear apples, but it will only ever give you a peach.

Learn to love the peach.

I routinely get smashed. But I don't want to purchase Knights or biker army. I do my best to play a fluff army that can stand a few rounds and I can think of a background for the fight. I just make it known I don't fight top tier well. So if people looking for practice armies then go else where or don't expect a tourney fight.

What I've found is the top players eventually learned this and like to step down into fluff games and ask to play me and we forge a narrative. So I still have plenty to play and meet people while learning th craft and not buying forge world stuff.

Im not super competitive. But i do know how to cheese things up.

Usually when i play against a low skilled/new/casual player, i try to talk to them about how they play, what they value, thought processes about their list building, just briefly. Then if he/they is all about the casual then i do a formationless KDK (and that is not very good in low points especially) But none the less it makes for an exciteing game where i use all my skills with what tools i have.

IF you really think its important that he fits in....well then I think you should accept your freind's POW and perhaps talk to the competitive guys about how to perhaps tone their list down. Perhaps make some odd picks and syngeries instead of killing the allready fairly small playerbase with their all out desire to win a plastic pissing contest?

As someone wise said "The objective of the game is to win. The purpose of the game is to have fun. The two should not be confused."

I know people like that you can't force them into accepting advice and they may even be insulted you try.

InquisitorRoeth wrote:
I want to help Commissar C. I want him to get better at the game like I've been doing. I want him to actually have fun playing against the other guys at the store. But I have no idea what I can do to help. Any suggestions?

\\

If I was Commissar C I would not want the be "helped". I would just want to play a relaxed game the way I like to play and I would hate it if someone started suggesting things like "yeah I know you like to play with units or strategy x but look unit or strategy y is way better" because I know that already and choose not to use y. Pointing this out feels really belittling especially by someone who isn't a veteran in the army you play. I never would not let you know it unless you pushed real hard.

This happened a few times to me on some tournaments that pretended to be "casual" so I went all in on both and brought the Inquisitor / orks army I loved. The kind of army where you use fun obscure units and converted every model so that they look exactly the way you want then to look. I did not have a great time this was partly because of the really aggressive lists but mostly due to having to listen to a buch less experienced players trying to "teach me the game" by trying to convince me to run the most boring net lists. Sometimes even suggesting the best route how to buy the models. I did not point out how insulting this was, and that If I really wanted I could probably make almost any list with my huge collection of orks and that I for sure could make better builds then "you know nob bikers are really good" or " have you ever considered coteaz with some devastators" . Instead i just acted stupid and I no longer play at those places.


Don't know if Commissar C is the same kind of guy as I am, but if he is he might be helped more by suggesting to the other players to downplay their lists in order to both have a fun time.

All this is coming across is you trying to force your hobby philosophy onto someone who doesn't share it. Let him/her play their hobby the way they want, at the end of the day it's their time and money going into it