Author |
Message |
 |
|
 |
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/02/27 19:49:31
Subject: Are Grey Knights worth it?
|
 |
Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries
|
I'm a new player to Warhammer 40k and so far I'm enjoying the hobby immensely. I currently have a small Space Marine army and thinking of getting a second army started. Looking through all the armies the Grey Knights stood out to me the most. I love the fluff, look and concept around the army; but I asked around my local gaming store and the consensus was that their trash and I would just get steam rolled when i played them. Is there any merit to this opinion? The stats of their units don't seem that bad to me but maybe I'm just not experienced enough to understand why. So
are the Grey Knights worth investing into or should I just stick with my Space Marine army?
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/02/27 19:55:12
Subject: Re:Are Grey Knights worth it?
|
 |
Stubborn Eternal Guard
|
No, they will not get steamrolled by everybody, but its worth considering who you are gonna be mostly up against. If its elder, tau or heck even space marines (as you are new) then yes, prepare to lose. But if you love them and you have a variety of opponents, then yes, go for them. Just be prepared for mono-lists to be competitive.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/02/27 20:13:31
Subject: Are Grey Knights worth it?
|
 |
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord
|
If you don't have a lot of experience in the game, yes you will get steamrolled. Grey Knights generally have a low model count and not that much survivability, so you really gotta know how to play them.
The main issue with them is that they're very mono-build. Grey Knight Terminators (not paladins) are superior to the Strike Squad in every way and form, Librarians are miles above the other HQ choices (even special characters) and the Nemesis Dreadknight is a must-have. And those are some fairly expensive choices, so after that you probably won't have many points for other stuff.
|
Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!
Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.
When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/02/27 20:35:42
Subject: Re:Are Grey Knights worth it?
|
 |
Bounding Assault Marine
East Bay, USA
|
Grey Knights just cost too many points for what they can do. They also suffer from the mass ap1/2 shooting, ignores cover, D weapons, Grav, etc that are in the game right now. They have a couple things going for them, and they even had the very first turn 1 deep strike ability in the game though that now comes a dime a dozen for cheaper points and better power output (Sky Hammer, Raven Guard). If you want to make a really cool looking army that you can take to your friends house go for it but in a competitive setting you will lose almost every game.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/02/27 20:56:02
Subject: Re:Are Grey Knights worth it?
|
 |
Evasive Pleasureseeker
Lost in a blizzard, somewhere near Toronto
|
In friendly games against non-optimised opponents, Grey Knights can work just fine.
Against any on the pre-Necron codices that are playing their more competitive (re: 'Tournament' level) lists, you'll start to find yourself shoehorned more into the GK's own more competitive build...
Basically using multiple Nemesis Strike Force detachments of Libbies + Termies + as many Dreadknights as pts allow. And/or else perhaps taking some allied Space Marine Drop Pods and slapping a Purifier Squad in there to add some really nasty Nova hurt. (Cleansing Flame is actually a really, really solid way to counter FMC's!  )
Against anyone running even a semi-competitive list from a Necron/post Necron codex though, no, Grey Knights really don't stand much of a snowball's chance in hell... The power gap currently between the "Age of the Decurion" style codices vs. everything yet to be updated to that style, is just far too great.
Against Chaos Marines, you can steamroll them pretty much blindfolded!
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/02/27 21:08:56
Subject: Re:Are Grey Knights worth it?
|
 |
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
|
Grey Knights can get their butts kicked all the way to the end of the game by most of the 7th ed armies.
Many things can go wrong with their army, a couple of bad dice rolls... and you just lost half your army. Lost half my army T1 before my opponent got to do anything, was interesting the amount of perils and mishaps I had that turn.
They also have a very boring competitive build, which if you will have to take if you want to stand a good chance of winning.
Still they have some of the best looking infantry models in the game which is why I stick with them.
|
SHUPPET wrote:
wtf is this buddhist monk ascendant martial dice arts crap lol
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/02/27 23:21:41
Subject: Are Grey Knights worth it?
|
 |
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps
Phoenix, AZ, USA
|
Grey Knights are a master-class army composed of elite units that are best in slot, and require you as the player to make less mistakes than your opponent in order to win. Best generic HQ, best Troops, two great Elite, 30" move Fast, best IoM Heavy, and a LoW that everyone wants to allie. The "mono-build" complaint is not accurate, but it is based on the fact that the above units are the best. I've found that when you build your GK atmy to win Maelstrom, you have a much more fulfilly and enjoyable game.
SJ
|
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/02/27 23:31:42
Subject: Are Grey Knights worth it?
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Yes they are. But they are tricky to use, since termi armour isn't that sturdy in the current meta. Don't stay in line of sight with anything that has ap2 and you should be fine stay inside ap2 and you lose too much models.
I always have fun when I play them. Dodging line of sight is a nice game to play.
Force weapons on all models is great as are S6 ap3 flamers and their other close ranged weapons.
Those things will murder anything that isn't a gargantuan creature.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Allies are worth it. I like to add ministorum priests and when I need push a bit harder I might just want to add drop pods.
|
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/02/27 23:38:13
Inactive, user. New profile might pop up in a while |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/02/28 08:52:13
Subject: Are Grey Knights worth it?
|
 |
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator
|
Well, I think you need to get prepared for using some allies, like AM or Inquistion which would be very fluffy. Allies can increase the model count of your army and bring some weapons which GK are lacking.
|
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a " " I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/02/28 16:30:46
Subject: Are Grey Knights worth it?
|
 |
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
|
Oldzoggy can I use the codex you have? A 5 point Ap3 flamer would be very useful.
|
SHUPPET wrote:
wtf is this buddhist monk ascendant martial dice arts crap lol
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/02/28 16:49:00
Subject: Are Grey Knights worth it?
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
[edit] jup you are right those GK flamers are S6 ap4.
No idea why I was under the impression that they where ap3 .
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/02/28 17:09:04
Inactive, user. New profile might pop up in a while |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/02/28 16:49:07
Subject: Are Grey Knights worth it?
|
 |
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps
Phoenix, AZ, USA
|
GK only have access to one AP3 Flamer, the exact same AP3 Flamer all Imperial Space Marines have: the Land Raider Redeemer.
The GK Incinerator is AP4.
SJ
|
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/02/28 16:49:25
Subject: Are Grey Knights worth it?
|
 |
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!
|
I really enjoy playing my GK's and seem to have quite a bit of luck with them in games. I havent really played anything but daemons, chaos, necrons, and nids against them but I do manage to win more so than lose with them. Shunting up the board and having pretty mobile units with deep strike can leave your opponents shooting at your guys in all directions.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/02/28 16:57:58
Subject: Are Grey Knights worth it?
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
You ally with SM for grav cents and run Draigo. It's pretty competitive.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/02/28 17:13:41
Subject: Are Grey Knights worth it?
|
 |
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord
|
oldzoggy wrote:They aren't 5 pnts at all I grey knights have incinerators and yeah they are really 6 ap3 assault 1 : D
Put a squad with 4 of them in a drop pod and blam dead wraithguards.
If you're actually playing Grey Knights, you may wanna re-read that codex.
If you're not, then someone's been hustling you.
Incinerators are S6 AP4. Otherwise, yes, they would be broken as hell (and it would make Salamanders cry).
Also, in terms of force weapons, I love Falchions. Don't have any because I swore an Oath of only using metal models, but still love them. For 37 points you get a psychic terminator with 3 attacks base (4 on the charge) that is no less effective in penetrating armor or strength than the normal 33 point terminator it use to be. The only drawback to the Terminators have compared to vanilla ones is that they lack Storm Shields and Cyclone Launchers (the psycannon and Incinerator are superior to their Assault Cannon and Heavy Flamer counterparts imo).
|
Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!
Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.
When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/02/28 18:03:44
Subject: Are Grey Knights worth it?
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
The Grey Knights models are lovely outside the Dreadknights, but the issue is that the codex is horrifically monobuild and requires allies to really get much out of them.
Also, the Psycannon becoming Salvo essentially killed Grey Knights in Power Armor.
|
CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/02/28 18:53:21
Subject: Are Grey Knights worth it?
|
 |
Bounding Ultramarine Assault Trooper
|
i find they only really work well against deamons, i would personally stick to regular marines for the time being
|
SPACE MARINES
imerial guard
skitarii
space marines: an army where if morale is down you look at your commander for inspiration and you valiantly fight on and kill m any in the name of the emperor
imperial guard: if morale gets low your commander shoots one of your comrades and expects that to encourage you
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/02/28 20:16:54
Subject: Are Grey Knights worth it?
|
 |
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps
Phoenix, AZ, USA
|
GK are stellar versus Deldar, Nids, Tau, Orks, and Guard. They can't reliably go toe to toe with regular Marines due mostly to Grav Cancer, but then who can? Eldar take some work, but they can be beaten.
SJ
|
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/02/28 22:41:23
Subject: Are Grey Knights worth it?
|
 |
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Goatboy was running an interesting GK list a few months ago. I think he took it to LVO.
GK combined with Flesh Tearer Pods to bring in a couple of units of Purifiers into the heart of the enemy. Two units of Purifiers in pods drop into the heart of the enemy and combat squad. They cast Cleansing Flame 4 times to clear out the backfield. Anything that survives the psychic phase eats 8 Incinerator templates. Other Pods with Fleash Tearers drop down with melta to open up vehicles.
I tried out the list and it worked well against the current meta. You have to be real careful with the secondary units in order to flesh out the weaknesses of dropping purifiers, but I think it can be done.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/02/28 23:01:57
Subject: Re:Are Grey Knights worth it?
|
 |
Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries
|
Thanks for all your opinions guys! It would probably be best for me to stick with my space marines and consider Grey Knights at a different time. Its unfortunate that such a cool army has to be overlooked.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/02/29 00:06:50
Subject: Are Grey Knights worth it?
|
 |
Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord
|
You can always run the Grey Knights as an add-on force (which is what they were originally made to be). Grey Knight Librarians may lack access to Biomancy but trades that for the ability to become a level 3 psyker, something that you shouldn't lightly pass up. Grey Knight Terminators armed with a Psycannon makes for a good mobile firing platform that's not afraid of being charged (dare them to charge you) and the entire outfit runs about 320 points. Transports isn't an issue because you can use the Nemesis Strike Force for this and have them teleport in. You can build it up from there until it can be a standalone army on it's own.
|
Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!
Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.
When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/02/29 05:34:10
Subject: Are Grey Knights worth it?
|
 |
Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch
|
If you look into GK, you need to understand one basic concept - they are NOT a stand alone army, but specialist allies.
They might be legal stand alone, but they were never designed to be such.
|
can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/02/29 06:01:04
Subject: Re:Are Grey Knights worth it?
|
 |
Furious Raptor
Sydney, Australia
|
If you're already playing Space Marines, what's to stop you adding a small allied detachment to your existing army? That way you can enjoy painting and gaming with them, without having them as your entire army.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/02/29 07:09:44
Subject: Are Grey Knights worth it?
|
 |
Stalwart Tribune
|
Go for it. They are not a bad army. If you want a competitive they are monobuild but you can always ally to SM.
|
If you wish to grow wise, learn why brothers betray brothers. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/02/29 19:54:06
Subject: Are Grey Knights worth it?
|
 |
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps
Phoenix, AZ, USA
|
GK are the closest you can get the Movie Marines and still be playing 40k. And the Draigo Shunt-Punch list is simply the most fun you can have in game.
SJ
|
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world.”
- Ephesians 6:12
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/03/01 01:58:30
Subject: Re:Are Grey Knights worth it?
|
 |
Judgemental Grey Knight Justicar
|
I'm with Jeffersonian. GK are my first army, and they are fun as hell. They require much more skill to win in a competitive environment right now. However, if you play well you can win plenty of games with them. My suggestion is to find the units you really like in the GK codex, and build a list around them, making sure there is as much synergy as possible. As others have said, the Codex has a lack of long range, and AP2 or lower weaponry. You will need to be prepared to assault to wreck vehicles, which is usually no problem thanks to Hammerhand.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/03/01 15:36:44
Subject: Are Grey Knights worth it?
|
 |
Auspicious Aspiring Champion of Chaos
|
I've considered playing GK if for no other reason than they have a low model count, so you could build a high-point army for relatively little money.
|
2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress
2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/03/01 19:06:17
Subject: Are Grey Knights worth it?
|
 |
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator
|
EnTyme wrote:I've considered playing GK if for no other reason than they have a low model count, so you could build a high-point army for relatively little money.
I like playing such armies. It requires some smart tactics.
|
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a " " I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/03/01 20:49:34
Subject: Are Grey Knights worth it?
|
 |
Shas'o Commanding the Hunter Kadre
Olympia, WA
|
The_Random_Ninja wrote:I'm a new player to Warhammer 40k and so far I'm enjoying the hobby immensely. I currently have a small Space Marine army and thinking of getting a second army started. Looking through all the armies the Grey Knights stood out to me the most. I love the fluff, look and concept around the army; but I asked around my local gaming store and the consensus was that their trash and I would just get steam rolled when i played them. Is there any merit to this opinion? The stats of their units don't seem that bad to me but maybe I'm just not experienced enough to understand why. So
are the Grey Knights worth investing into or should I just stick with my Space Marine army?
Grey Knights are an elite army, meaning their plan is to out-quality you with their weapons.
The DreadKnight is fantastic and well regarded and the Paladins are also. My own army is a Purifier army which isn't as "optimized" but it does pretty darn well because being fearless and fearsome Psykers doesn't suck.
I play a ton o armies so I am not really swayed much by people telling me this or that will get rolled. The fun, for me, in this game is learning HOW to use things well, not listening to negative Nancies who simply won't put in the time to try.
So if they speak to you, learn them. And take Dread knights because they are super awesome.
|
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
7th Ambassadorial Grand Tournament Registration: http://40kambassadors.com/register.php |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2016/03/02 11:04:47
Subject: Are Grey Knights worth it?
|
 |
Courageous Space Marine Captain
|
The one thing GK does have going for it is that they can put out a fearsome amount of Warp Charge each turn due to each Walker and non-vehicle being at least mastery level 1, and their best HQ, the Libby, can be level 3 for not that many points, meaning you can reliably put out 7+ Warp Charge plus your D6 roll even at low points levels, which not many armies bar maybe Nids can match, and even then, the few Psykers Nids will have are concentrated in a handful of tough, high wounds MCs like Flyrants and Tervigons, which are GKs preferred prey due to all having Force Weapons. Psycannons are also high ROF, high Strength and rending which makes them the next best thing for tackling FMCs.
|
I'm celebrating 8 years on Dakka Dakka!
I started an Instagram! Follow me at Deadshot Miniatures!
DR:90+S++G+++M+B+IPw40k08#-D+++A+++/cwd363R+++T(Ot)DM+
Check out my Deathwatch story, Aftermath in the fiction section!
Credit to Castiel for banner. Thanks Cas!
|
|
 |
 |
|