Are Grey Knights worth it?

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**The_Random_Ninja**

I'm a new player to Warhammer 40k and so far I'm enjoying the hobby immensely. I currently have a small Space Marine army and thinking of getting a second army started. Looking through all the armies the Grey Knights stood out to me the most. I love the fluff, look and concept around the army; but I asked around my local gaming store and the consensus was that their trash and I would just get steam rolled when i played them. Is there any merit to this opinion? The stats of their units don't seem that bad to me but maybe I'm just not experienced enough to understand why. So
are the Grey Knights worth investing into or should I just stick with my Space Marine army?

**The_Grey_Knight**

No, they will not get steamrolled by everybody, but its worth considering who you are gonna be mostly up against. If its elder, tau or heck even space marines (as you are new) then yes, prepare to lose. But if you love them and you have a variety of opponents, then yes, go for them. Just be prepared for mono-lists to be competitive.

**MechaEmperor7000**

If you don't have a lot of experience in the game, yes you will get steamrolled. Grey Knights generally have a low model count and not that much survivability, so you really gotta know how to play them.

The main issue with them is that they're very mono-build. Grey Knight Terminators (not paladins) are superior to the Strike Squad in every way and form, Librarians are miles above the other HQ choices (even special characters) and the Nemesis Dreadknight is a must-have. And those are some fairly expensive choices, so after that you probably won't have many points for other stuff.

**Kimchi Gamer**

Grey Knights just cost too many points for what they can do. They also suffer from the mass ap1/2 shooting, ignores cover, D weapons, Grav, etc that are in the game right now. They have a couple things going for them, and they even had the very first turn 1 deep strike ability in the game though that now comes a dime a dozen for cheaper points and better power output (Sky Hammer, Raven Guard). If you want to make a really cool looking army that you can take to your friends house go for it but in a competitive setting you will lose almost every game.

**Experiment 626**

In friendly games against non-optimised opponents, Grey Knights can work just fine.

Against any on the pre-Necron codices that are playing their more competitive (re: 'Tournament' level) lists, you'll start to find yourself shoehorned more into the GK's own more competitive build...
Basically using multiple Nemesis Strike Force detachments of Libbies + Termies + as many Dreadknights as pts allow. And/or else perhaps taking some allied Space Marine Drop Pods and slapping a Purifier Squad in there to add some really nasty Nova hurt. (Cleansing Flame is actually a really, really solid way to counter FMC's!

)

Against anyone running even a semi-competitive list from a Necron/post Necron codex though, no, Grey Knights really don't stand much of a snowball's chance in hell... The power gap currently between the "Age of the Decurion" style codices vs. everything yet to be updated to that style, is just far too great.

Against Chaos Marines, you can steamroll them pretty much blindfolded!

**Quickjager**

Grey Knights can get their butts kicked all the way to the end of the game by most of the 7th ed armies.

Many things can go wrong with their army, a couple of bad dice rolls... and you just lost half your army. Lost half my army T1 before my opponent got to do anything, was interesting the amount of perils and mishaps I had that turn.

They also have a very boring competitive build, which if you will have to take if you want to stand a good chance of winning.

Still they have some of the best looking infantry models in the game which is why I stick with them.

**jeffersonian000**

Grey Knights are a master-class army composed of elite units that are best in slot, and require you as the player to make less mistakes than your opponent in order to win. Best generic HQ, best Troops, two great Elite, 30" move Fast, best IoM Heavy, and a LoW that everyone wants to allie. The "mono-build" complaint is not accurate, but it is based on the fact that the above units are the best. I've found that when you build your GK atmy to win Maelstrom, you have a much more fulfilly and enjoyable game.

SJ

**oldzoggy**

Yes they are. But they are tricky to use, since termi armour isn't that sturdy in the current meta. Don't stay in line of sight with anything that has ap2 and you should be fine stay inside ap2 and you lose too much models.

I always have fun when I play them. Dodging line of sight is a nice game to play.
Force weapons on all models is great as are S6 ap3 flamers and their other close ranged weapons.
Those things will murder anything that isn't a gargantuan creature.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Allies are worth it. I like to add ministorum priests and when I need push a bit harder I might just want to add drop pods.

**wuestenfux**

Well, I think you need to get prepared for using some allies, like AM or Inquistion which would be very fluffy. Allies can increase the model count of your army and bring some weapons which GK are lacking.

**Quickjager**

Oldzoggy can I use the codex you have? A 5 point Ap3 flamer would be very useful.

**oldzoggy**

[edit] jup you are right those GK flamers are S6 ap4.

No idea why I was under the impression that they where ap3 .

**jeffersonian000**

GK only have access to one AP3 Flamer, the exact same AP3 Flamer all Imperial Space Marines have: the Land Raider Redeemer.

The GK Incinerator is AP4.

SJ

**Resin Glazed Guardsman**

I really enjoy playing my GK's and seem to have quite a bit of luck with them in games. I havent really played anything but daemons, chaos, necrons, and nids against them but I do manage to win more so than lose with them. Shunting up the board and having pretty mobile units with deep strike can leave your opponents shooting at your guys in all directions.

**Dozer Blades**

You ally with SM for grav cents and run Draigo. It's pretty competitive.

**MechaEmperor7000**

oldzoggy wrote:
They aren't 5 pnts at all I grey knights have incinerators and yeah they are really 6 ap3 assault 1 : D

Put a squad with 4 of them in a drop pod and blam dead wraithguards.

If you're actually playing Grey Knights, you may wanna re-read that codex.

If you're not, then someone's been hustling you.

Incinerators are S6 AP4. Otherwise, yes, they would be broken as hell (and it would make Salamanders cry).

Also, in terms of force weapons, I love Falchions. Don't have any because I swore an Oath of only using metal models, but still love them. For 37 points you get a psychic terminator with 3 attacks base (4 on the charge) that is no less effective in penetrating armor or strength than the normal 33 point terminator it use to be. The only drawback to the Terminators have compared to vanilla ones is that they lack Storm Shields and Cyclone Launchers (the psycannon and Incinerator are superior to their Assault Cannon and Heavy Flamer counterparts imo).

**Slayer-Fan123**

The Grey Knights models are lovely outside the Dreadknights, but the issue is that the codex is horrifically monobuild and requires allies to really get much out of them.

Also, the Psycannon becoming Salvo essentially killed Grey Knights in Power Armor.

**the clone**

i find they only really work well against deamons, i would personally stick to regular marines for the time being

**jeffersonian000**

GK are stellar versus Deldar, Nids, Tau, Orks, and Guard. They can't reliably go toe to toe with regular Marines due mostly to Grav Cancer, but then who can? Eldar take some work, but they can be beaten.

SJ

**DarthDiggler**

Goatboy was running an interesting GK list a few months ago. I think he took it to LVO.

GK combined with Flesh Tearer Pods to bring in a couple of units of Purifiers into the heart of the enemy. Two units of Purifiers in pods drop into the heart of the enemy and combat squad. They cast Cleansing Flame 4 times to clear out the backfield. Anything that survives the psychic phase eats 8 Incinerator templates. Other Pods with Fleash Tearers drop down with melta to open up vehicles.

I tried out the list and it worked well against the current meta. You have to be real careful with the secondary units in order to flesh out the weaknesses of dropping purifiers, but I think it can be done.

**The_Random_Ninja**

Thanks for all your opinions guys! It would probably be best for me to stick with my space marines and consider Grey Knights at a different time. Its unfortunate that such a cool army has to be overlooked.

**MechaEmperor7000**

You can always run the Grey Knights as an add-on force (which is what they were originally made to be). Grey Knight Librarians may lack access to Biomancy but trades that for the ability to become a level 3 psyker, something that you shouldn't lightly pass up. Grey Knight Terminators armed with a Psycannon makes for a good mobile firing platform that's not afraid of being charged (dare them to charge you) and the entire outfit runs about 320 points. Transports isn't an issue because you can use the Nemesis Strike Force for this and have them teleport in. You can build it up from there until it can be a standalone army on it's own.

**BoomWolf**

If you look into GK, you need to understand one basic concept - they are NOT a stand alone army, but specialist allies.
They might be legal stand alone, but they were never designed to be such.

**Raichase**

If you're already playing Space Marines, what's to stop you adding a small allied detachment to your existing army? That way you can enjoy painting and gaming with them, without having them as your entire army.

**Draco**

The_Random_Ninja wrote:
I love the fluff, look and concept around the army

Go for it. They are not a bad army. If you want a competitive they are monobuild but you can always ally to SM.

**jeffersonian000**

GK are the closest you can get the Movie Marines and still be playing 40k. And the Draigo Shunt-Punch list is simply the most fun you can have in game.

SJ

**Homeskillet**

I'm with Jeffersonian. GK are my first army, and they are fun as hell. They require much more skill to win in a competitive environment right now. However, if you play well you can win plenty of games with them. My suggestion is to find the units you really like in the GK codex, and build a list around them, making sure there is as much synergy as possible. As others have said, the Codex has a lack of long range, and AP2 or lower weaponry. You will need to be prepared to assault to wreck vehicles, which is usually no problem thanks to Hammerhand.

**EnTyme**

I've considered playing GK if for no other reason than they have a low model count, so you could build a high-point army for relatively little money.

**wuestenfux**

EnTyme wrote:
I've considered playing GK if for no other reason than they have a low model count, so you could build a high-point army for relatively little money.

I like playing such armies. It requires some smart tactics.

**Jancoran**

The_Random_Ninja wrote:
I'm a new player to Warhammer 40k and so far I'm enjoying the hobby immensely. I currently have a small Space Marine army and thinking of getting a second army started. Looking through all the armies the Grey Knights stood out to me the most. I love the fluff, look and concept around the army; but I asked around my local gaming store and the consensus was that their trash and I would just get steam rolled when i played them. Is there any merit to this opinion? The stats of their units don't seem that bad to me but maybe I'm just not experienced enough to understand why. So
are the Grey Knights worth investing into or should I just stick with my Space Marine army?

Grey Knights are an elite army, meaning their plan is to out-quality you with their weapons.

The DreadKnight is fantastic and well regarded and the Paladins are also. My own army is a Purifier army which isn't as "optimized" but it does pretty darn well because being fearless and fearsome Psykers doesn't suck.

I play a ton o armies so I am not really swayed much by people telling me this or that will get rolled. The fun, for me, in this game is learning HOW to use things well, not listening to negative Nancies who simply won't put in the time to try.

So if they speak to you, learn them. And take Dread knights because they are super awesome.

**Deadshot**

The one thing GK does have going for it is that they can put out a fearsome amount of Warp Charge each turn due to each Walker and non-vehicle being at least mastery level 1, and their best HQ, the Libby, can be level 3 for not that many points, meaning you can reliably put out 7+ Warp Charge plus your D6 roll even at low points levels, which not many armies bar maybe Nids can match, and even then, the few Psykers Nids will have are concentrated in a handful of tough, high wounds MCs like Flyrants and Tervigons, which are GKs preferred prey due to all having Force Weapons. Psycannons are also high ROF, high Strength and rending which makes them the next best thing for tackling FMCs.