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POSSESSION = Possession is a conjuration with a range of 6" that . . . If this power is successfully manifested the Psyker is immediately removed as a casualty . . . (BRB p195)

HELLFORGED ARTEFACT = Scrolls of Sorcery = . . . Note that the Blue Scribes are not Psykers for the purposes of any special rules that target Psykers. (Daemons Codex p43)


It seems to me that the Blue Scribes are not removed as a casualty if a Greater Daemon is conjured since they are not Psykers. They are merely reading random scrolls!

I did not find a FAQ on this.

What is the correct rule?

Do the Blue Scribes even have access to Daemonology?

Assuming they do, psychic powers are not special rules, so would not be covered.

The problem is Possession isn't a special rule targeting a psyker, its referring to the caster that cast Possession.which the Blue Scribes did do.

So no Blue Scribes doesn't dodge dying for Possession.

Scrolls of Sorcery = At the start of each friendly turn, choose a Psychic Discipline from the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook, and roll a D6 - this turn, the Blue Scribes can automatically manifest that power (they cannot swap it for the Primaris Power). This does not cost any Warp Charge points, and does not require a test . . .

Well call me a Jokaero's Uncle, nothing in Possession actually refers to the model that casts it. It only refers to the Psyker that casts it, but in this case no valid psyker cast it (The Blue Scribes don't have the Psyker rule and the Hellforged Artifact specifically says that they're not Psykers for rules that target Psykers).

...by RAW this means that, yes, a Greater Daemon just poofs into existence and your scribes remain unharmed. Like, the rule literally says "they're not psykers for any rules that target psykers".

Well at least one other person concluded RAW result in no death to the Blue Scribes. Just wanted to be certain my analysis passed the laugh test and it wasn't time - yet - to fit me for a straight jacket.

I'm sometimes wrong about the ruling, so wait for someone else to weigh in

Preferably Kriswall, who generally has a good grasp of the rules.

RAW seems clear to me on this one. The "psyker is removed" business is clearly a rule that targets psykers, which the blue scribes are explicitly exempt from. I'd say if they cast Possession they do indeed stay on the board.

It's hardly game breaking though. I very rarely see blue scribes in an army list and then it's only a 1 in 6 chance to roll Possession with them.

Seems right to me, rules and visually. The Blue Scribes aren't going to get possessed by a Bloodthirster, but they could just be reading their gibberish and POOF! A Keeper of Secrets is poofed out of its sex-dungeon and onto the battlefield.

Step 1 - random spell
Step 2 - spell is cast

Step 1 - Spell is possession
Step 2 - Spell replaces model

Stop grasping at straws, there is no loophole. All threads like these do is give ammo to the less informed fear mongers who like to spread end times rumors

By your wording, if the blue scribes cast iron arm, it wouldn't do anything, as the blue scribes isn't a psyker, and Iron arm targets the psyker. All self targeting blessings would auto fail, and any spell that describes "psyker" would also fall apart and be broken, as blue scribes isn't a psyker.

 gwarsh41 wrote:
Step 1 - random spell
Step 2 - spell is cast

Step 1 - Spell is possession
Step 2 - Spell replaces model

Stop grasping at straws, there is no loophole. All threads like these do is give ammo to the less informed fear mongers who like to spread end times rumors

By your wording, if the blue scribes cast iron arm, it wouldn't do anything, as the blue scribes isn't a psyker, and Iron arm targets the psyker. All self targeting blessings would auto fail, and any spell that describes "psyker" would also fall apart and be broken, as blue scribes isn't a psyker.

You cannot make a sensible point by intentionally changing the words in the rulebook.

Possession reads "the Psyker is immediately removed as a casualty..." It very clearly does NOT say "model." Of couse, the authors of the rulebook understood that model has a very different meaning than Psyker. On the same page of the rulebook (for the Sacrifice power) it reads, "If this power is successfully manifested, one friendly model within 6" of the Psyker (or the Psyker himself) immediately suffers a single wound..." Psyker is a subset of the larger category of models. In fact the same page identifies further subsets of models. Cursed Earth reads, "... all models with the Daemon special rule (friend or foe)..." Thus "friend models" and "foe models" are further subsets of the larger category of models.

You are arguing that Rules as Intended should be as you suggest. But RAW contradict your argument.

I do agree that Blue Scribes cannot manifest (from their scrolls) blessings which target themselves as a Psyker. Again, on the same page (for the Cursed Earth power) it reads, "Cursed Earth is a blessing that targets the Psyker." Blue Scribes are categorically NOT a Psyker! Of course, Blue Scribes could manifest the blessing Endurance because "Endurance is a blessing that targets a single friendly unit..."

Actually, if players stop changing words in the rulebook to suit their own purposes it often - not always - becomes quite easy to determine what the RAW is. The reason Blue Scribes (NOT a Psyker) can manifest psychic powers at all is because of the Hellforged Artefact named Scrolls of Sorcery. It is the Hellforged Artefact that acts contrary to the normal rules rather than the Blue Scribes themselves.

I am not near my BRB at the moment, but what is the wording on Conjurations? Don't they deep strike within a certain distance "from the Psyker"? Wouldn't that mean the Scribes basically can not use Malefic for anything other than the crappy beam or flamer?

I agree that it is VERY clear the Blue Scribes are not Psykers and that must mean ANY time something targets a Psyker, it doesn't apply to the Blue Scribes. But this must go both ways. Blessings that target the Psyker cannot work on them.

They're an awful use of points anyways.

 Galef wrote:
I am not near my BRB at the moment, but what is the wording on Conjurations? Don't they deep strike within a certain distance "from the Psyker"? Wouldn't that mean the Scribes basically can not use Malefic for anything other than the crappy beam or flamer?

I agree that it is VERY clear the Blue Scribes are not Psykers and that must mean ANY time something targets a Psyker, it doesn't apply to the Blue Scribes. But this must go both ways. Blessings that target the Psyker cannot work on them.

The summoning spells do not mention the psyker. It only says that they have a range. Here is a quote from summoning.

"Summoning is a conjuration with a range of 12" that creates one of the following units"

 coblen wrote:

 Galef wrote:
I am not near my BRB at the moment, but what is the wording on Conjurations? Don't they deep strike within a certain distance "from the Psyker"? Wouldn't that mean the Scribes basically can not use Malefic for anything other than the crappy beam or flamer?

I agree that it is VERY clear the Blue Scribes are not Psykers and that must mean ANY time something targets a Psyker, it doesn't apply to the Blue Scribes. But this must go both ways. Blessings that target the Psyker cannot work on them.

The summoning spells do not mention the psyker. It only says that they have a range. Here is a quote from summoning.

"Summoning is a conjuration with a range of 12" that creates one of the following units"

Yes, but what do the rules for Conjuration spells say earlier in the rule book? I believe in the psychic phase section. I don't have my BRB right now, will have to check later.

From 'Conjuration' on page 26 of the main rulebook:

When the power is resolved, the new unit then arrives via Deep Strike (pg 162), within the power's maximum range...

Yeah the Conjuration rule doesn't even make mention of the model now that I look at it, it just says within Range.

Also, I would treat Iron Arm exactly as you interpreted it; it does jack squat if you roll it. Two sides of the same coin. Some powers become more awesome, some become worse. It actually fits the Blue Scribes' fluff since they're basically babbling gibberish and probably wouldn't know what to do with an iron arm anyhow.