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Hey guys,

I've got a Linebreaker Squadron and having trouble using it. I usually try to deploy it at the very front edge of my deployment zone and drive it forward as much as possible in order to attack my opponent first. However, this tactic usually only works if I have first turn. If I don't have first turn. it becomes increasingly difficult to figure out how to use them and I've never actually got to use the Apocalyptic Blast. I've considered trying to deploy them in reserve, but I don't know how this will turn out (I'm using this tactic for the first time tomorrow).

I'm curious to know two things:

(1) If you have used this squadron, generically speaking - how have you used it (relatively) successfully?

(2) Conversely, is it even worth taking? Is it better to run the Vindicators individually or not at all?

Cheers guys

 IllumiNini wrote:
Hey guys,

I've got a Linebreaker Squadron and having trouble using it. I usually try to deploy it at the very front edge of my deployment zone and drive it forward as much as possible in order to attack my opponent first. However, this tactic usually only works if I have first turn. If I don't have first turn. it becomes increasingly difficult to figure out how to use them and I've never actually got to use the Apocalyptic Blast. I've considered trying to deploy them in reserve, but I don't know how this will turn out (I'm using this tactic for the first time tomorrow).

I'm curious to know two things:

(1) If you have used this squadron, generically speaking - how have you used it (relatively) successfully?

(2) Conversely, is it even worth taking? Is it better to run the Vindicators individually or not at all?

Cheers guys

1) I haven't used the squadron (my 7th edition MEQ army is Space Wolves right now and we don't have the option to squadron our tanks). However, in playing against the squadron I might be able to provide some insight that could be useful to keep in mind when you're running the squadron. A huge, squad-wiping blast is a scary prospect, especially for armies relying on lots of infantry without transports (such as Skitarii or blob guard). However, taking three vindicators costs well over 300pts--but preventing just one of them from firing (and thus precluding the use of the scary pie plate of doom) rarely takes more than 300pts of shooting. And the decrease in scariness from the Linebreaker blast to just 2 Large Blasts (even if they are S10, AP2) is considerable--on a table with a decent amount of terrain a unit of strategically-spaced infantry have a good chance of weathering two normal Demolisher rounds.

In order to actually use the Linebreaker effectively you have to do at lesat one of two things: 1) do something to ensure the squadron can firing its Feth-you blast, or 2) get the enemy to commit at least 360pts of units to stopping you from using that blast. The second option there is terribly rare for most engagements, as one crew shaken result robs you of the ability to fire the Linebreaker blast, and any army that can't find a way to shake/glance to death a single 13/11/10 vehicle without committing a few hundred points of units to the task probably has a lot of other problems to worry about, on top of the vindicators. So to get use out of the blast you'll need to find a way to keep the tanks safe until they're ready to shoot. LoS-blocking terrain is pretty much a necessity here, and you'll have to creep the tanks up 'neath the cover of terrain and in a way that makes all three tanks show their AV13 front to the enemy line--the AV11 sides just aren't going to hold up to a serious attempt to silence one tank. You need to distract enemy units with faster units of your own to help take pressure off of the vindicators while also doing your damnest to squeeze every last cover save out of the board in a desperate attempt to make sure all three Vindicators survives unshaken to fire their blast.

I've played against the squadron twice. Once I glanced one tank to death on the 1st turn and never had to worry about the blast. The second time the damn squadron crept around some ruins (with windowless first-floors, so there was no line of sight) and fired on a pricey (though not as pricey as the Linebreaker squadron itself) squad of Skitarii. The poor guys just ceased to exist.


2) Is it worth it? That depends on the list and the points limit you're playing. The Linebreaker blast itself hurts some armies a lot more than others, too, but I'm assuming we're talking about a take-all-comers context here. If your list is full of a ton of immediate in-your-face threats--drop pods, bikes, skyhammer, etc.--then a Linebreaker Squadron might be a good addition to the force. If every unit in your army is going wreck anything close to it, the the Linebreaker is either going to 1) draw enough fire to take the pressure off another one of your scary units, and then that unit will pick up the slack created from the inevitable stunned/dead Vindicator or your other units will eat all the fire and the Linebreaker will hopefully not get enough hate to stop it from firing and it gets to flatten something with its big blast.
Another sort of situation where the Linebreaker is good is if you're playing games with huge point limits, but only 1 CAD or something like that. If your heavy support slots are filled and you don't have enough free slots for 3 solo vindicators then you might as well run them as the Linebreaker squadron.

I have an Iron Hands friend who enjoys this squadron, plays it each list for almost two years now.

He runs the "Armoured Task Force" formation, which grants him the 'Paregoric Cant' which causes all vehicles within 6" of the Tech Marine's to ignore shaken/stunned.

He also runs a Void Shield Generator or two, found in the Stronghold Assault formations.

It's ability to deny cover is INTENSE, pretty much HAVE to field Storm Shields as a Space Wolves player against him.

It's very fun, and very enjoyable to bring to a team game.

It's a big points investment for a very easily crippled unit... the the answer would be : Very carefully with invisibility

Formation is practically useless and vindicators are essentially useless too. Short ranged - 11 side armor. They should come stock with ignore cover and cost a little more- then they would be useful on their own.

MekLeN wrote:
I have an Iron Hands friend who enjoys this squadron, plays it each list for almost two years now.

He runs the "Armoured Task Force" formation, which grants him the 'Paregoric Cant' which causes all vehicles within 6" of the Tech Marine's to ignore shaken/stunned.

He also runs a Void Shield Generator or two, found in the Stronghold Assault formations.

It's ability to deny cover is INTENSE, pretty much HAVE to field Storm Shields as a Space Wolves player against him.

It's very fun, and very enjoyable to bring to a team game.

I'll definitely have to look up the Void Shield Generators thing. This squadron really does need all the help it can get haha.

Torus wrote:It's a big points investment for a very easily crippled unit... the the answer would be : Very carefully with invisibility

Agreed. 360 Points base. 390+ Points by the time you add Siege Shields and whatever Vehicle Equipment you decide to add on. As was said before, I might try being careful by starting them in reserve. and by 'Invisibility', do you mean getting cover saves from a psykic power (or something like that)? Or was it just a figure of speech?

Xenomancers wrote:Formation is practically useless and vindicators are essentially useless too. Short ranged - 11 side armor. They should come stock with ignore cover and cost a little more- then they would be useful on their own.

Based on my experience with them, I thoroughly agree. They've done nothing but soak up shots which is only useful if I can take serious advantage of that (i.e. use what the enemy would otherwise have shot at to annihilate them), but I find that very hard to do, especially since I play Black Templars haha.

Funnily enough I was playing a game at my FLGS (where the Vindicators were- you guessed it - getting demolished) and we both agreed that they should (1) Increase the Armour Values all around (e.g 14, 13, 11 or something); - or - (2) Decrease the points cost; - or - (3) Decrease the points cost and have an optional upgrade to armour on all sides. TBH (3) is something that I might try and house rule eventually.

Invisibility is a - some might even say the - prime requirement for anything expensive and killy but kinda fragile to be a game winner.

It's a psychic power that causes every shot fired at the target to be a snap shot (hitting on 6's, can't fire blasts or templates) and you're hitting on 6's in melee too (so better than even the most lopsided contest of martial skill).

Might have to take an allied detachment of something with a Librarian as a HQ. Ya know, Black Templars hating witches and all haha