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Hey guys, I'm just feeling a little down about 40k lately, and it got me to thinking. I see a lot of nay-sayers here on the forums, and though I'm aware it's warranted in a lot of cases, I just wanted to get a consensus from all the nay-sayers out there. What exactly is your morale with 40k, or even Games Workshop in general? A lot of us here, if not most of us, play 40k because we love the universe, we love assembling and painting our armies, and we enjoy battling it out on the table. Most of us share similar mindsets, and want the same things from this game.
But, of course, there is a lot wrong with this game, and a lot of things people disagree with as far as GW's business decisions. But taking that into account, how many of you are still enjoying the game? If so, why? If not, why not? Please discuss, as I'm interested in hearing what people think.
My thoughts:
Spoiler:
Personally, I have mixed feelings about 40k. I play it my friends, and in a casual setting, it's a lot of fun. So much fun that I've begun investing more time and money into the hobby. Heck, I started painting and basing my models this past weekend. *le gasp* But then certain things smack me in the face, such as general game imbalance. I play Necrons, and am in love with Decurion and fluffy formations within it. I have named my Overlord, and he always has the same loadout. He's followed by his Lychguard posse, and commands my legions of troops. However, my girlfriend quit the game because her army couldn't put a dent in mine, even when I brought nothing but sub-par units and no Decurion. I've had other friends lose interest in the game as well, simply because their army sucks. But then as far as power level goes, I have other friends who play top tier armies, and enjoy things such as Stormsurges and Wraithknights. Then I realize that Necrons don't have something to easily combat that (Yes, go ahead and laugh and say "Really?"). Necrons don't get some super bad GC or a SHV that's actually worth it's points against something like an Imperial Knight. So I'd have to bring something super competitive to have a chance, but that's not how I play. So a lot of games are just along the lines of "Arrrrrggggg" frustrating, because of either of the aforementioned scenarios.
Then, I sit down and look at rules imbalance. My Vehicles are meh simply because the game rules dictate it so. My MCs are also meh, because of high weight of fire weapons that kill them easily. Then you have the comparison between SHV and SHW, and one of them is far superior because of broken things such as Stomp. And then I look at things like Drop Pods with Objsec, Ally rules, Grav, Scatterbikes, Detachment shenanigans, Invisibility, you name it. Sometimes, I just find it really hard to get excited about playing every weekend.
Now, don't get me wrong, I know Necrons are still ridiculous, but these are issues I see normally. I also play Nids, and don't get me started with how terrible that codex is, or how they need an update but won't get it because Eldar and Tau sell more models and thus deserved updates first.
So, let it out. Let me know your thoughts on 40k. Tell me if you're enjoying yourself, and why. If not, tell me what grinds your gears. I want to know what the community actually thinks, rather than just posting "Doom and Gloom" responses to other threads. So this is the place to discuss it.
I find myself playing the game less and building and painting characters more. While their game is on a downer they're only getting better at making kits.
I will say I think they're going in the right direction though. While in last addition you would play eldar and just expect serpent spam I now see people bringing what I consider sensible armies featuring line infantry like guardians which make up the warhost and usually when these 'decurion's' face another 'decurion' I find its a fair match up.
When the rest of the armies have got the 'decurion' treatment I believe it will be a better, fairer, funner game.
So until my Blood Angels get their 'decurion' I'm gonna be finishing converting my own execution force.
"That's how a Luna Wolf fights."
"If you can't keep up, go and join the Death Guard"
"It had often been said that Space Marines knew no fear, but when Angron charged, he ran"
Taffy17 wrote: I find myself playing the game less and building and painting characters more. While their game is on a downer they're only getting better at making kits.
I will say I think they're going in the right direction though. While in last addition you would play eldar and just expect serpent spam I now see people bringing what I consider sensible armies featuring line infantry like guardians which make up the warhost and usually when these 'decurion's' face another 'decurion' I find its a fair match up.
When the rest of the armies have got the 'decurion' treatment I believe it will be a better, fairer, funner game.
So until my Blood Angels get their 'decurion' I'm gonna be finishing converting my own execution force.
Well, that's all fair and good, but what about Tyranids having a decent "Decurion", but still being matched up against things like D-weapons and Wraithknights? That still isn't going to make for a very fun match-up.
I love the game, the hobby, the lore, etc but the rules are incredibly frustrating at times. My two original factions Orks and Tau basically in two completely different leagues when it comes to power levels. Its equally squig gak that I have to worry about getting tabled turn 2 with my Orks but also scared ill brutally table my opponent turn 2 with my Tau in the same gamer group (and my Tau doesn't use Riptides, Stormsurges, or any crazy formations). I see updates to the Ghazz supplement and I'm scratching my head trying to figure out wtf game GW plays and yet a month or two ago Tau supplements have crazy ridiculous rules that take an already strong army to insane levels of power. I want to take cool formations but I don't want to worry that im going to destroy my opponent and waste both of our time.
"Hold my shoota, I'm goin in"
Armies (7th edition points)
7000+ Points Death Skullz
4000 Points
+ + 3000 Points "The Fiery Heart of the Emperor"
3500 Points "Void Kraken" Space Marines
3000 Points "Bard's Booze Cruise"
40k is not balanced. Never has been. I’ll grant that it’s probably more out of wack now then in the past. But if you have a group of guys all on the same page about what level of play they want, you can still have a blast playing. I still love the world and models. I enjoy building and playing, and seeing my armies battle it out on the tabletop.
Would I enjoy a tighter, more balanced system? You bet. But I’m fine with what we have.
You don't know what Tyranids will get in their decurion.
They may get a formation which allow's mawlocs to burst out of the ground and charge same turn or the swarmlord might get a buff that makes him a LoW and match for a wraithknight.
Space Marines get free transports, maybe you'll get free Tervigons or Tyranid drop pods, whatever they're called.
Necrons get RP you might get FNP in synapse.
Tyranids have just got rules that allow them to infiltrate and charge T1.
I think 'nids will be fine
"That's how a Luna Wolf fights."
"If you can't keep up, go and join the Death Guard"
"It had often been said that Space Marines knew no fear, but when Angron charged, he ran"
Taffy17 wrote: You don't know what Tyranids will get in their decurion.
They may get a formation which allow's mawlocs to burst out of the ground and charge same turn or the swarmlord might get a buff that makes him a LoW and match for a wraithknight.
Space Marines get free transports, maybe you'll get free Tervigons or Tyranid drop pods, whatever they're called.
Necrons get RP you might get FNP in synapse.
Tyranids have just got rules that allow them to infiltrate and charge T1.
My one big complaint with the game & GW in general has always been that they simply will NEVER! stick to the same design philosophy through a full update cycle, and IMHO, this is where the vast majority of the balance issues stem from.
I just wish they'd stick to one system and see it through before radically altering their designs...
That, and like all Chaos players, I'm incredibly bitter & resentful over the continued state of CSM's, who've now been waiting since Nov '07 for a real codex update, let alone how truly god awful nearly our entire model line has become!
I couldn't decide between 4 or 5, as I love the game but also have issues. The thing is, DA hold up right now that it's very unlikely I'll get tabled turn two unless I do something stupid with my bikes, and while I may not win very many games I have a ton of fun playing. Luckily I have a group that, while very competitive at times, will always design something "fair" for my army to go up against since they know I'm not the best player.
I guess if I bought 20 razorbacks and ran the company I'd be a lot scarier, or if I ran all bikes and darkshrouds, but as it stands my army is pretty well balanced in my opinion.
I love painting (just bought a load of guard), enjoy a fun friendly game, and don't mind losing as long as it's not a total stompfest (aka 4 knights). I have enough people around that even if some of them start going knight heavy I will still have a handful of guys that run fun lists against me.
The game is bad, the prices are too dam high, one man gw stores suck and there are not enough players. But the models are great and I still enjoy it. I just wish that they made some improvements.
Inactive, user. New profile might pop up in a while
I couldn't vote because I fall into the 'love the game and background but hate GW's greasy, rancid embrace so my friends and I have altered the rules and codexes to suit ourselves and the game has never been better" category. Even if GW had a complete change in rules quality I doubt any of us would ever purchase rules. Models, maybe.
Taffy17 wrote: You don't know what Tyranids will get in their decurion.
They may get a formation which allow's mawlocs to burst out of the ground and charge same turn or the swarmlord might get a buff that makes him a LoW and match for a wraithknight.
Space Marines get free transports, maybe you'll get free Tervigons or Tyranid drop pods, whatever they're called.
Necrons get RP you might get FNP in synapse.
Tyranids have just got rules that allow them to infiltrate and charge T1.
I think 'nids will be fine
I can certainly hope.
As a tau player the idea of turn one assault makes me cringe, and if it was something that's not a fringe occurrence I'd be a little freaked out.
Taffy17 wrote: You don't know what Tyranids will get in their decurion.
They may get a formation which allow's mawlocs to burst out of the ground and charge same turn or the swarmlord might get a buff that makes him a LoW and match for a wraithknight.
Space Marines get free transports, maybe you'll get free Tervigons or Tyranid drop pods, whatever they're called.
Necrons get RP you might get FNP in synapse.
Tyranids have just got rules that allow them to infiltrate and charge T1.
I think 'nids will be fine
I can certainly hope.
As a tau player the idea of turn one assault makes me cringe, and if it was something that's not a fringe occurrence I'd be a little freaked out.
Get used to it, buddy. New SW formations almost guarantee a turn one charge. The paradigm is starting to shift toward assault.
2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress 2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
As a tau player the idea of turn one assault makes me cringe, and if it was something that's not a fringe occurrence I'd be a little freaked out.
As a Blood Angel and Tyranid player, your actual ability to shoot copious amounts of firepower on turn 1 while I advance or hide (but not assault) makes us DEAD. I care not for your cringes.
Turn 1 assaults are absurd, and absolutely never something to be celebrated, it's an indication of broken game design.
At least...unless assualts lose the ability to lock their opponents actions, auto hit rear armor, sweeping advance, etc.
There are other problems with the gane in general, but turn 1 assaulta just break it further, they're not a fix for anything.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/07 22:20:52
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
I'm kinda in between 1 and 2. I'm holding out for hope that eventually GW will return to it's hobby roots, however slim or nonexistant that hope is, but I hold out mainly because I've become so invested in the game and the lore.
Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!
Kanluwen wrote:
Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.
When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do.
Vaktathi wrote: Turn 1 assaults are absurd, and absolutely never something to be celebrated, it's an indication of broken game design.
At least...unless assualts lose the ability to lock their opponents actions, auto hit rear armor, sweeping advance, etc.
There are other problems with the gane in general, but turn 1 assaulta just break it further, they're not a fix for anything.
Many units can shoot something turn one. I don't mind a handful of units potentially reaching my lines turn one.
Right, but they dont get to automatically do the above extra things (hitting rear armor, attacking in both player turns, extra movement, ignoring all cover saves, locking actuons, sweeping advance, etc), assaults are super deadly, the hard part is getting stuck in. Shooting is easy but you generally cant wipe or lock an opposing unit as easily, and there's a reason that the game historically has limited this and has stuff like rules against scouting units turn 1 launching assaults if they went first.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/07 23:28:33
IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights! The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.
I am stuck between 1 and 2. The only reasons that I still play this game are because I have invested heavily in it and because almost no other games are played at my local club anymore. Ever since Worthy Gaming shut down our game base has just shrunk and shrunk until we rarely see anything other than 40K. we used to play Warmachine and Dropzone Commander and now.... Well.
I hate the imbalance, the crappy rule writing, the billions of random charts, the lol stupid psychic powers, the Warlord traits (FFS, let my commander decide how he fights!), the massive rise in power levels and most of all that flyers and SH vehicles/GMC's/LOW are now part of standard 40K.
Free from GW's tyranny and the hobby is looking better for it
DR:90-S++G+++M++B++I+Pww205++D++A+++/sWD146R++T(T)D+
Yes, but shooting is less powerful than assaulting. As Vaktathi said, once you are assaulted, you are screwed.
You can't move, you take damages in every player's turn, if you fail you can be totally erased by a sweeping advance...
If someone shoot at you in his turn, you can still move, shoot, assault, etc...
Assaulting T2 is fine for me, because at least you opponent can react, but assaulting T1...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/03/07 23:32:10
My 40k morale is pretty low atm. Primarily due to the huge imbalance between codices. My 30k morale on the other hand is currently really high.
If 40k makes some big changes that would see the different codices become closer to each other in power level, I would probably come back. For now, I am just having too much fun in 30k. Looks like everything was better in the past after all
krodarklorr wrote: Hey guys, I'm just feeling a little down about 40k lately, and it got me to thinking. I see a lot of nay-sayers here on the forums, and though I'm aware it's warranted in a lot of cases, I just wanted to get a consensus from all the nay-sayers out there. What exactly is your morale with 40k, or even Games Workshop in general? A lot of us here, if not most of us, play 40k because we love the universe, we love assembling and painting our armies, and we enjoy battling it out on the table. Most of us share similar mindsets, and want the same things from this game.
So decide amongst your group what it is you like about 40k, and choose a set of rules to best suit that. Sticking with official GW rules alone, there's seven versions to choose from, or pick any set of sci-fi (or WW2, for that matter!) rules and bodge together some stats for your 40k models and have at it. I've been playing Inquisimunda recently because that sort of small-scale narrative gaming is what I prefer over just lining up hordes of models and rolling fistfuls of dice.
To me, "playing 40k" means playing a game using the setting, imagery and models of 40k, not any given book of rules.
I went from playing a few games a week to playing ... Well, two games in the past year. I agree with experiment 626, GW's inability to follow a theme through the entire line has really screwed over most of the armies.
My primary army is DE and although they are great looking models, the current codex is basically only half done.
I understand you can't have perfect balance. Especially in a game with as many moving parts as 40k, but dear god it's apparent that they don't even try.
Probably the worst part is that the lore is fundamentally disconnected from the rules. If they aren't going to bother balancing it then at least make the rules for the models match the lore. If wyches are supposed to be bad ass close combat fighters then they should reliably be able to take down more than just guardsman. At least then I could somewhat justify the bs.
Probably the only reason I'm still around is that the background is great.
------------------
"Why me?" Gideon begged, falling to his knees.
"Why not?" - Asdrubael Vect
I've left current 40K behind and can't imagine a scenario that would bring me back to present day 40K. I disagree with pretty much everything that the direction of the game and company is headed.
So I'm blissfully living in the past. 4th edition and any codex 5th edition or younger. The rule book and codexs have undergone some changes to make the game balanced and more fair.
Its been a great experience and I am actually enjoying 40K again.
See pics of my Orks, Tau, Emperor's Children, Necrons, Space Wolves, and Dark Eldar here:
7000+ Points Death Skullz
+ 
+ 3000 Points "The Fiery Heart of the Emperor"
3000 Points "Bard's Booze Cruise" 
Ultramarines, 3rd Co. and friends, 16k+ 
4k 
4k Points
Competition Index
2000 Khorne Bloodbound (Skullfiend Tribe- Aqshy)
1000 Tzeentch Arcanites (Pyrofane Cult - Hysh) in progress
2000 Slaves to Darkness (Ravagers)
