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So, I'm setting up for a tournament with a friend and we're each building up our lists when we ran into a problem.
He states that because Khorne Deamonkin is it's own codex that I wouldn't get any of my deathwing bonuses however I argued that it's still chaos the same way as Tempestus scions are still units in the Guard codex.

Thoughts?

"1. Faction: The unit’s Faction is shown here by a symbol. All units that have this symbol, which includes all the units described in this book, have the Khorne Daemonkin Faction." (Khorne Daemonkin Codex, Datasheets chapter, Army List Entries section.)

Do the Deathwing Have Hatred Khorne Daemonkin? or is it something else like Hatred Chaos Space Marines?

If it is Hatred Chaos Space Marines, why would they get their bonuses against the Khorne Daemonkin faction?

Arguably you might gain it against "Chaos Space Marines" units in a Khorne Daemonkin detachment, as Hatred can refer to specific units. But as above, Khorne Daemonkin are a separate faction to Chaos Space Marines.

Well RAW they don't. But they should. I mean that berserker from daemonkins is the same treacherous bastard DA know from CSM codex, they sure as hell know how to fight and hate him.

The rule Hatred and Prefered Enemy should be changed somehow. Look at Grey Knights, their rules work just fine for some units of Khorne Daemokin.

That's just the way it goes sometimes, when GW doesn't stay on the ball about updating codexes...

 FoxPhoenix135 wrote:
That's just the way it goes sometimes, when GW doesn't stay on the ball about updating codexes...

Especially given Dark Angels was released some three months after Khorne Daemonkin, giving Games Workshop ample opportunity to get their gak together.

That said, I've voted in this poll that they should be treated by Dark Angels in the same way, or at least the Space Marine-type units of Khorne Daemonkin. That is how I would play it, though obviously not the rules as written.

 Mr. Shine wrote:

 FoxPhoenix135 wrote:
That's just the way it goes sometimes, when GW doesn't stay on the ball about updating codexes...

Especially given Dark Angels was released some three months after Khorne Daemonkin, giving Games Workshop ample opportunity to get their gak together.

And Hatred (Space Marines) found as part of the Veterans of the Long War Chaos Marine rule does cover all the extensive variant codices that existed at the time.

I dont know dark Angels(i remember da being loyalist) well enough but if they do have a entry for kdk in there codex then maybe. But still formations bonuses are only granted to the formation so why would they benefit?

arthorn wrote:
I dont know dark Angels(i remember da being loyalist) well enough but if they do have a entry for kdk in there codex then maybe. But still formations bonuses are only granted to the formation so why would they benefit?

He means Dark Angels benefiting (or not benefiting) from their rule of Hatred (Chaos Space Marines) against Khorne Daemonkin.

RAW no. RAI intended I could see a yes and a no. Daemonkin are more than just chaos space marines, but its still chaos heavily featuring chaos space marines.

I would play it as them retaining their bonuses against khorne daemonkin.

No. Because they are a different faction - and the bulk of them are not, actually, traitor marines.

The Khorne Daemonkin book makes it clear that most Khorne Daemonkin forces come into being, launch their wars, and steadily die/ascend until the force is nothing but daemons.

The marines who make it up are far more normally renegades (i.e. contemporary traitors) than original legion marines, so the Deathwing don't qualify for Preferred Enemy any more than they would against a normal space marine chapter.

Khorne Daemonkin don't get access to the equivalent rule (Veterans Of The Long War) either.

It's no different to Tempestus Scions. Yes, there is a unit called Tempestus Scions in the Astra Militarum codex. But there is a unit called 'land speeder' in a lot of codices.

Militarum Tempestus is a different faction to the Astra Militarum, and Hatred (Astra Militarum) wouldn't help against a pure tempestus army.

Now HOIWPI is Yes, since They still are baically CSM, even though they are a Sub-faction of sorts.

But thats in a friendly enviroment.
In a competitive environment you either goes with the RAW, so no they are not CSM even if they have similar units( after all there was a discussion that KDK couldn't take the Gorethunder or Murderhorde formations from CotW, even thouhg they use the same units, so why would it be different here?).
Or you houserule it for the tournament that they count as CSM faction.

Yet DA dont give two feths about Daemons, so to give the benefit to any unit with KDK faction is as "wrong", fluff wise, as giving it to none.

God I would love to have just one soul in gw overlooking forums and updating FAQ so it's not biannual.

So RAW I'll play as if they are a new faction for any tournament setting.

Strange that I would treat khorne chaos space marines as normal but should my opponent ally with a chaos space marines and I get hatred from arguably the same unit.