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Hey guys,

I'm planning on writing a whole heap of background fluff for a custom Space Marine Chapter that isn't strictly codex-compliant and bears similarities to the Grey Knights. Now, before you go off on tangents of "Grey Knights have no successor Chapters", "Exorcists are only rumored to be their successors", "The idea of Grey Knights having successor chapters would cheapen them", a direct gene-seed successor is not what I'm going for, and a spiritual successor wouldn't need me to ask what I've come here to ask. What I want to know is the following:

(I) Would it be plausible to say something along the lines of during the 13th Founding (Dark Founding), an attempt was made to merge the gene-seed of the Grey Knights with another Chapter's gene-seed in an attempt to 'purify' it as well as pass on particular properties such as resistance to Chaos corruption? I know this is far from a unique idea, and IIRC it's similar to - if not, the same - as that used for the Exorcists, but I figure it's among the best explanations for a gene-seed connection to the Grey Knights.

(II) Were all the Chapters founded during 21st Founding (Cursed Founding) doomed by their own gene-seed and/or corrupted by Chaos? Because I figure it may also be plausible to create a link to the Grey Knight gene-seed by writing fiction for one of the few (if not, the only) Chapter that wasn't doomed and/or corrupted as a result of the Cursed Founding.

Cheers Guys

The Grey Knight geneseed is made with the genetic template of the Emperor Himself. To "merge" it with other geneseed is practically heresy. I also cant see a link for the second point.

The way the Grey Knights are, there's practically no way to make successors. Even their "sucessors" have no real link and probably don't even know about the GK.

The best way would just be to make them a Chapter on the fringes who's Techmarines are particularly effective at power weapons, able to make swords, halberds, dualblades, hammers and staffs that somehow have a profound effect on Daemons, as well as a pattern for hands-free stormbolters. That would explain pretty much everything except dreadknights but you're in a corner with GK

 Deadshot wrote:
The Grey Knight geneseed is made with the genetic template of the Emperor Himself. To "merge" it with other geneseed is practically heresy. I also cant see a link for the second point.

I imagine this would be the Imperium's reaction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8BfB0QEUMg

Mixing of and/or tampering with gene-seeds was what led to the Cursed Founding, wasn't it? So it technically could have happened then. But they don't call it the Cursed Founding for no reason haha.

 Deadshot wrote:
The way the Grey Knights are, there's practically no way to make successors. Even their "sucessors" have no real link and probably don't even know about the GK.

The best way would just be to make them a Chapter on the fringes who's Techmarines are particularly effective at power weapons, able to make swords, halberds, dualblades, hammers and staffs that somehow have a profound effect on Daemons, as well as a pattern for hands-free stormbolters. That would explain pretty much everything except dreadknights but you're in a corner with GK

Fair enough. So best avenue is essentially make them a spiritual successor, but give different reasoning as to why they can do the things they do?

As with everything else in 40k fluff, the truth of the whole "genetic template of the Emperor Himself" thing is a bit fuzzy. Especially when some of the first members were loyalists from traitor legions.

Honestly I see your idea of trying to use GK geneseed mixed with another as a great fluff way to create a connection. I'm sure in the vastness of 40k someone either tried it or wanted to try it.

1. In the newest GK codex, it has been confirmed that they are based on his own geneseed.

2. The easiest way to get around this issue is that you have a particularly powerful inquisitor lord who commissioned an experimental forces of astartes from the HLOT for a secret or classified project fighting chaos in some capacity in a remote sector of the galaxy. Maybe a place prone to warp incursions or instability, but also the location of a vital resource like a particularly hot type of promethium (possibly due to warp presence/taint). This should happen early on in the imperium like M33 or M34 (possible around the time of the cursed founding if you wish). That inquisitional requisitioned force eventually grew as the militant arm of the inquisition in that remote sector being brought to full chapter strength. Run them as Grey Knights, as they have all the same gear, and they fill that same capacity but they aren't officially grey knights, and its all canonically kosher because GK are beholden to the Inquisition. Just my opinion.

I run my GK this way, It allows me to ally in deathwatch when i wouldn't normally be able to. Just bring 1 inquisitor and the whole thing is copacetic.

Sounds like the experimentations of the ever fabulous Fabius Bile to me. Maybe a not-chaos not-Fabius style character, but heavily influenced by him, would be a direction to consider? Boarderline heresy, but good intentions.

GKTiberius wrote:1. In the newest GK codex, it has been confirmed that they are based on his own geneseed.

2. The easiest way to get around this issue is that you have a particularly powerful inquisitor lord who commissioned an experimental forces of astartes from the HLOT for a secret or classified project fighting chaos in some capacity in a remote sector of the galaxy. Maybe a place prone to warp incursions or instability, but also the location of a vital resource like a particularly hot type of promethium (possibly due to warp presence/taint). This should happen early on in the imperium like M33 or M34 (possible around the time of the cursed founding if you wish). That inquisitional requisitioned force eventually grew as the militant arm of the inquisition in that remote sector being brought to full chapter strength. Run them as Grey Knights, as they have all the same gear, and they fill that same capacity but they aren't officially grey knights, and its all canonically kosher because GK are beholden to the Inquisition. Just my opinion.

I run my GK this way, It allows me to ally in deathwatch when i wouldn't normally be able to. Just bring 1 inquisitor and the whole thing is copacetic.

I feel like this would definitely be the safest bet. The hardest thing for me to do is to make the story unique, but that's part of the fun. I also wander how much trouble I might run into if I tried to dally in mixing the gene-seeds of the Space Wolves and Grey Knights in an attempt to take the best f both of them and allow each to have a pseudo-successor chapter? haha

There are two parts to the success of the Grey Knights.

1) their relation to the Emperor

2) Their very selective recruitment process


The 2nd part is the real reason you couldn't have many more chapter of Grey Knights. The Grey Knights pull their initiates from the Black Ships which constantly deliver psykers to Terra to either be turned into sanctioned Imperial Psykers OR become fodder for the Golden Throne.

They take the absolute best of the best of these psykers, then put them through initiation rites which have a less than 0.1% survival rate. If they're strong and pure enough to survive that, they then go through the standard marine implantation and training process which also has an insanely low survival rate. Those who survive this become Grey Knights.

I doubt if you somehow managed to screen every human for psychic potential, collect every human psyker who exists, and put all of these psykers through this training that you'd find enough to make another chapter of Grey Knights.

 Grey Templar wrote:
There are two parts to the success of the Grey Knights.

1) their relation to the Emperor

2) Their very selective recruitment process


The 2nd part is the real reason you couldn't have many more chapter of Grey Knights. The Grey Knights pull their initiates from the Black Ships which constantly deliver psykers to Terra to either be turned into sanctioned Imperial Psykers OR become fodder for the Golden Throne.

They take the absolute best of the best of these psykers, then put them through initiation rites which have a less than 0.1% survival rate. If they're strong and pure enough to survive that, they then go through the standard marine implantation and training process which also has an insanely low survival rate. Those who survive this become Grey Knights.

I doubt if you somehow managed to screen every human for psychic potential, collect every human psyker who exists, and put all of these psykers through this training that you'd find enough to make another chapter of Grey Knights.

Fair points, but I'm not looking to take the pure gene-seed of the Grey Knights and create another Chapter, but dilute it into another gene-seed and create a new Chapter that way. They probably won't have the same potential as the Grey Knights, but they will share some genetic traits. Also, with the dilution of the gene-seed, they wouldn't have to be as strict with the selection process. Combine that with the likely increase in survival rates (assuming they follow the Grey Knights closely in how their Chapter is run). If their Chapter isn't run in a way closely related to the Grey Knights, then the selection process of psykers may not be as severe (or even necessary).

 IllumiNini wrote:

Fair points, but I'm not looking to take the pure gene-seed of the Grey Knights and create another Chapter, but dilute it into another gene-seed and create a new Chapter that way. They probably won't have the same potential as the Grey Knights, but they will share some genetic traits. Also, with the dilution of the gene-seed, they wouldn't have to be as strict with the selection process. Combine that with the likely increase in survival rates (assuming they follow the Grey Knights closely in how their Chapter is run). If their Chapter isn't run in a way closely related to the Grey Knights, then the selection process of psykers may not be as severe (or even necessary).

Literally nothing stop you to create a chapter where their geneseed it's mutated into such way most of their neophytes develop psychic abilities. (offspring of thousand sons , or just to Blood ravens where their ratio of psykers it's quite high)

Then the chapter master may choose to follow (with the help of some fellow inquisitor or with supervision from some Grey knights) some of the Grey knights trainning regime to harden their marines and avoid possible chaos temptation or side effects, wich would make them pretty much Grey knights on tabletop as rules are concerned but not fully grey knights for fluff reasons. choosing to only deploy the most hardened psykers who have prevailed over all corruption test may explain it quite well.

What type of similarities are you trying to go for. Wargear, psychic might, daemon fighting abilities, etc?

Background/fluff wise you could say an inquisitor happened upon a gene-seed bank buried on terra or luna that contained thousand sons gene-seed (if going for the psychic abilities) or iron warriors (wargear) or one of the 2 lost primarchs. Not knowing the originator of the gene-seed he had it scanned and it was found to be pure. Or maybe he knew the origin of the gene-seed and decided to fight fire with fire after finding the gene-seed was untainted.

Make it during the Dark Founding and he had the chapter inserted into records but over time they were lost or redacted and no one really knows the truth of their creations or origins.

Use the GK dex as the primary force. Use normal SM models. And to try and keep them apart from being to "GK" use swords, falchions, and hammers as the main weapons. Mount the stormbolters normal and not on the back of the gauntlet.

Keep the GK specific weapons kind of to a minimum. Yeah it will limit your firepower but keep the army closer to your fluff. But in the end its up to you how you want to build the army.

I dunno, at the end of the day it doesn't really matter that they are using GK gear to be successors of the GK. Though it does kind of pop the question if they aren't going to function like the GK why be like them? You need to explain how you want the army plays on tabletop for people to give better advice.

I will say one thing though. Don't follow that idea of yours to say Space Wolf and Grey Knight Gene-seed was combined. You at that point are taking two Mary Sues and saying this combo of mine is even more special.

Why?

1. Because Space Wolf Successors always fail, 100% of the time; that was the whole plot for why Magnus attacked the Fang when they were close to fixing that critical issue. So saying it was miraculously fixed without interference is one of the worst things you can do it tosses out a large part of SW lore and one of their only "flaws".

2. Grey Knights and Space Wolves tolerate each other. The Inquisition and Space Wolves hate each other. The only people with the authority to create such a hybrid are the Inquisition, and they sure as hell wouldn't want anything to do with the SW.