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Hey guys,

So as a few of you may have noticed, I recently dabbled in the idea of a Grey Knights Successor Chapter. It didn't seem to go down so well since one of the best explanations I could come up with appeared break the fluff anyway. So it got me thinking: From which of the Legions and/or their immediate successors (i.e. Imperial Fists Legion or their immediate successors - Imperial Fists Chapter) can I draw a gene-seed to create a Successor Chapter?

For example, as aforementioned, the Grey Knights cannot have a Successor Chapter because they can't have a direct Successor Chapter and, like my best attempts to find a loop hole, a solution would be classified as "Too Convenient", "Too Simple", or both. Space Wolves are another who can't have Successor Chapters (or at least ones that won't suffer from rampant mutation and die out).

So Ultramarines is the big one because, if I remember right, they are the most stable and mutation-free. Then - as far as I'm aware - the Imperial Fists are another solid choice. But what about the rest of the loyalist legions? For example, I read that the Salamanders are not confirmed to have any Successor Chapters because of the losses they suffered during the Horus Heresy (I'm not 100% if that's correct), but can it be a thing for a Chapter to be a Successor of the Salamanders (even if it's only suspected)?

And as for the Traiter Legions, the likelihood of actually having a Successor Chapter from one of these Legions is effectively impossible, but from what I know, I feel it should be possible (even if it has some hugely small possibility). For example, we do have a cannon Chapter - the Blood Ravens - who are at least suspected to be the progeny of the Thousand Sons Legion (even though that is just one lonely Chapter haha). On a related note, at least three of the members who followed Garro (and Garro himself) were loyalists from Traitor Legions and we know that none of their gene-seed was used in the creation of the Grey Knights; so is it possible for them to be fathers of loyalist Chapters who bear the gene-seed of the respective Traiter Legions?

Also, I know this is a long shot and the answer will almost surely be No, but was anything done with the gene stock of the Custodian Guard apart from being used to replenish the Custodian's numbers? Meaning were any other Astartes that weren't Custodian created using the Custodian gene-stock? Or was the Custodian gene-stock experimented with in any way?


If the above is a case of TLDR, then let me summarise:

From which Legions can a safely assume I can take a gene-seed in order to form a Successor Chapter?


Cheers Guys

Honestly, all of the original loyalist legions short of space wolves have successors, even the salamanders. In their case, more likely than not, they are few in number and just not widely acknowledged or publicized as kin, since its rumoured guys like the Black Dragons/Storm Giants are their descendants.

Traitor Legions wise, that's really up for you to decide and its heavily implied that the High Lords have used traitor geneseed either in in its entirety or in chimeric combinations in order to create new chapters. Most of the time its seen through their traits that are reminiscent of their parent legions (i.e. Minotaurs as possible World Eater descendants, Red Scorpions for Emperor's children, you've already mentioned Blood Ravens for the Thousand Sons). Keep in mind that you have to understand that the delivery of their potential primogenitors can't be blatant. If they indeed are, its never explicitly stated or made public knowledge, its not something they would want to invoke or promote given the attention and bad omen it would bring.

Also, with regards to the Custodes, that is a big no-no simply because the process by which they are created is not the same as astartes. Just as thunder warriors were the short-lived prototype to marines, there is a similar distinction between the two as each Custodian is effectively hand-crafted vs. the mass production of marines. They are inherently different types of gene-enhanced humans with different methods so no overlap. Besides, Custodes sole purpose is with the Emperor so they would never be used with the kind of tasks astartes would be assigned anyways.

What grimskull says, custodians are not space marines, they are only created for one thing, they are not under control of the high-lords of Terra, You could however have fabius bile make a copy of them as some of them have fallen during the horus heresy.

Grimskul wrote:Honestly, all of the original loyalist legions short of space wolves have successors, even the salamanders. In their case, more likely than not, they are few in number and just not widely acknowledged or publicized as kin, since its rumoured guys like the Black Dragons/Storm Giants are their descendants.

Traitor Legions wise, that's really up for you to decide and its heavily implied that the High Lords have used traitor geneseed either in in its entirety or in chimeric combinations in order to create new chapters. Most of the time its seen through their traits that are reminiscent of their parent legions (i.e. Minotaurs as possible World Eater descendants, Red Scorpions for Emperor's children, you've already mentioned Blood Ravens for the Thousand Sons). Keep in mind that you have to understand that the delivery of their potential primogenitors can't be blatant. If they indeed are, its never explicitly stated or made public knowledge, its not something they would want to invoke or promote given the attention and bad omen it would bring.

Also, with regards to the Custodes, that is a big no-no simply because the process by which they are created is not the same as astartes. Just as thunder warriors were the short-lived prototype to marines, there is a similar distinction between the two as each Custodian is effectively hand-crafted vs. the mass production of marines. They are inherently different types of gene-enhanced humans with different methods so no overlap. Besides, Custodes sole purpose is with the Emperor so they would never be used with the kind of tasks astartes would be assigned anyways.

Fair enough. Because I want to try and create something a bit more unique and interesting than "Here is a Codex-Compliant Chapter Founded using the gene-seed of the Ultramarines (or descendant Chapter)." A Legion/Chapter like the Salamanders or the Iron Hands would definitely alow me to do that. Tratier Legions, too.

Jehan-reznor wrote:You could however have fabius bile make a copy of them as some of them [Custodian Guard] have fallen during the horus heresy.

If I ever write a CSM Warband/Successor Chapter, that (or something like that) would definitely be high up on my list of ideas to try.

Also note that successor chapters themselves do have successor chapters. The Tiger Claws, for example, were a successor chapter of the Astral Claws, who were a successor chapter of [Deleted But Rumoured To Be Dark Angels]


The Second Founding wasn't a 'proper' founding, but just saw the legions broken up and handed a fiefdom as a homeworld, keys to a proportion of the fleet and several crates of coloured primer.

Subsequent foundings are batch-founded from gene-seed reserves from any given legion's gene-seed or a successor chapter's gene-seed (if the latter itself is old enough for a big enough reserve to exist to support this).

90% of the time it's ultramarine's gene-seed because it's one of the three most stable. The other two very stable ones are the Dark Angels (also have quite a few successors) and the Imperial Fists (which is stable but defective).

Whilst the bulk of Dark Angels successors are 'the unforgiven', and on at least one occasion was founded due to petitions by the dark angels themselves, not all need necessarily be. Dark Angels geneseed is genetically of good quality, so may well have also be used in some foundings where the chapter's ancestry is forgotton or deliberately obscured (such as the Inqusisition's private experimental chapters like the Red Hunters and Red Scorpions).

Successors to the Raven Guard and Salamanders are rare because the damn stuff is mutable - hence the obvious physical mutations resulting from the strain. They do however exist and there are several confirmed Raven Guard successors.

The Space Wolves are the one chapter with no successors. They tried it once - the Wolf Brothers - and it didn't end well. The Canis Helix apparently now reacts incredibly badly with any non-fenrisian DNA. Makes you wonder what happened to the terran-born Space Wolves legion troops.


There are several 'probably traitor' successors - the Blood Ravens are one, and the Silver Skulls another - They're an 'Ultramarines successor' who the Ultramarines have never formally acknowledged and whose heraldry looks suspiciously similar to a sanitized version of Iron Warriors heraldry; given that a loyalist Iron Warriors Grand Company led by Warsmith Dantioch was lurking around Macragge during the heresy......


Custodes definitely aren't astartes; we don't know exactly how custodians are made, save that it's implied they're grown from scratch rather than gene-seed implanted into an already living being. Whilst also gene-forged, they're closer in production method and quality to primarchs than they are to astartes.


Also, there are several occasions of unknown (possibly traitor) gene-seed being used to create chapters. The "cursed founding" is noted for the geneseed being used having been tampered with to try and improve it. This.....didn't work. You got the mutation-prone Black Dragons, Psychotic Minotaurs, etc, etc.

The 'dark founding' (13th) is essentially a founding where all the paperwork was destroyed. No-one knows how many chapters were created or where they're based, and what geneseed was used for them. Not to say they're specifically anything but loyalist geneseed, but - short of them displaying specific gene-heritage like the Black Rage - even they don't know who their ancestry comes from.

locarno24 wrote:
Also note that successor chapters themselves do have successor chapters. The Tiger Claws, for example, were a successor chapter of the Astral Claws, who were a successor chapter of [Deleted But Rumoured To Be Dark Angels]

The Second Founding wasn't a 'proper' founding, but just saw the legions broken up and handed a fiefdom as a homeworld, keys to a proportion of the fleet and several crates of coloured primer.

Subsequent foundings are batch-founded from gene-seed reserves from any given legion's gene-seed or a successor chapter's gene-seed (if the latter itself is old enough for a big enough reserve to exist to support this).

Well yes, this is true, but I simplified it to the Legions so I could make a point without making a list that would go from here to Europe and back ahaha.

locarno24 wrote:
90% of the time it's ultramarine's gene-seed because it's one of the three most stable. The other two very stable ones are the Dark Angels (also have quite a few successors) and the Imperial Fists (which is stable but defective).

Whilst the bulk of Dark Angels successors are 'the unforgiven', and on at least one occasion was founded due to petitions by the dark angels themselves, not all need necessarily be. Dark Angels geneseed is genetically of good quality, so may well have also be used in some foundings where the chapter's ancestry is forgotton or deliberately obscured (such as the Inqusisition's private experimental chapters like the Red Hunters and Red Scorpions).

Yeah sounds about right. The reason I didn't go for either of them is because I really dislike the Dark Angels and the Ultremarines seem a bit too generic. Too bad that - as you said - they're two of the most stable and mutation-free gene-seeds haha.

locarno24 wrote:
Successors to the Raven Guard and Salamanders are rare because the damn stuff is mutable - hence the obvious physical mutations resulting from the strain. They do however exist and there are several confirmed Raven Guard successors.

Their relatively unique identities combined with the potential for mutation is probably what makes them rare but very interesting. That's why when my Grey Knights idea fell apart (rather quickly if I'm honest), Legions/Chapters like the Salamanders to my interest.

locarno24 wrote:
The Space Wolves are the one chapter with no successors. They tried it once - the Wolf Brothers - and it didn't end well. The Canis Helix apparently now reacts incredibly badly with any non-fenrisian DNA. Makes you wonder what happened to the terran-born Space Wolves legion troops.

haha exactly. Makes you wander how there was every a Legion before they found Russ. I wander if that's ever explained?

locarno24 wrote:
There are several 'probably traitor' successors - the Blood Ravens are one, and the Silver Skulls another - They're an 'Ultramarines successor' who the Ultramarines have never formally acknowledged and whose heraldry looks suspiciously similar to a sanitized version of Iron Warriors heraldry; given that a loyalist Iron Warriors Grand Company led by Warsmith Dantioch was lurking around Macragge during the heresy......

I was hoping stuff like this would be brought to my attention because it can justifiably allow for Successor Chapters of Traitor Legions. Same sort of way the presence of Garro as a loyalist allows for Death Guard Successors and the presence of Loken and Qruze would allow for a Luna Wolves Successor (though let's be honest - that's akin to some of the highest order heresy around haha).

locarno24 wrote:
Custodes definitely aren't astartes; we don't know exactly how custodians are made, save that it's implied they're grown from scratch rather than gene-seed implanted into an already living being. Whilst also gene-forged, they're closer in production method and quality to primarchs than they are to astartes.

Fair call, but it would be interesting to see if the lore every allowed for a small Chapter of Custodes-like worriors that operated outside the completely direct service of the Emperor.

locarno24 wrote:
Also, there are several occasions of unknown (possibly traitor) gene-seed being used to create chapters. The "cursed founding" is noted for the geneseed being used having been tampered with to try and improve it. This.....didn't work. You got the mutation-prone Black Dragons, Psychotic Minotaurs, etc, etc.

The 'dark founding' (13th) is essentially a founding where all the paperwork was destroyed. No-one knows how many chapters were created or where they're based, and what geneseed was used for them. Not to say they're specifically anything but loyalist geneseed, but - short of them displaying specific gene-heritage like the Black Rage - even they don't know who their ancestry comes from.

I plan to use the 13th Founding for that exact reason. It allows for a lot more freedom in terms of the fluff.

Given your average cuatodious on avarage is normaly compared to a marine captain, but there a solo fighter, not squad based but they could be trained different. And though they shed there power armour and terminator suits its never said they cannot don them again in combat.

Not impossible to have a elite company of custodious who act as its direct action unit. Like a para military force that does the difficult and dirty jobs. There loyalty is unquestioned. They have the skills, and I is never said they lost ability to make them. Just there too slow to make as the space marines where able to mass produced and ideal great crusade troops. A balence of thunder warrior and custodious.

Though 40k reborn thunder warriors could be fun inquisition shock troops. The 30k books nadw them out as very powerful and well capable of matching marines in close combat with ease. There less stable but when you need to punch something so hard it explodes. Call the thunder.

The custodians explicitly never leave earth since the heresy, though.

The Thunder Warriors....there are a few who escaped what happened to them and survived, and given the 'scrappy' nature of their enhancements, it's not unreasonable that someone might have the tech to create them.

 IllumiNini wrote:

Grimskul wrote:Honestly, all of the original loyalist legions short of space wolves have successors, even the salamanders. In their case, more likely than not, they are few in number and just not widely acknowledged or publicized as kin, since its rumoured guys like the Black Dragons/Storm Giants are their descendants.

Traitor Legions wise, that's really up for you to decide and its heavily implied that the High Lords have used traitor geneseed either in in its entirety or in chimeric combinations in order to create new chapters. Most of the time its seen through their traits that are reminiscent of their parent legions (i.e. Minotaurs as possible World Eater descendants, Red Scorpions for Emperor's children, you've already mentioned Blood Ravens for the Thousand Sons). Keep in mind that you have to understand that the delivery of their potential primogenitors can't be blatant. If they indeed are, its never explicitly stated or made public knowledge, its not something they would want to invoke or promote given the attention and bad omen it would bring.

Also, with regards to the Custodes, that is a big no-no simply because the process by which they are created is not the same as astartes. Just as thunder warriors were the short-lived prototype to marines, there is a similar distinction between the two as each Custodian is effectively hand-crafted vs. the mass production of marines. They are inherently different types of gene-enhanced humans with different methods so no overlap. Besides, Custodes sole purpose is with the Emperor so they would never be used with the kind of tasks astartes would be assigned anyways.

Fair enough. Because I want to try and create something a bit more unique and interesting than "Here is a Codex-Compliant Chapter Founded using the gene-seed of the Ultramarines (or descendant Chapter)." A Legion/Chapter like the Salamanders or the Iron Hands would definitely alow me to do that. Tratier Legions, too.

Be wary of the risk of your chapter becoming an bunch of Mary Sues though. It is generally better to set your Chapter apart from others through well-written fluff (an interesting history, homeworld, culture etc.) rather than through some super special snowflake origin that no "normal" Space Marine Chapter has. Special snowflakes can be done, but you have to write it really well in order to prevent it from becoming too Mary Sue-like.
That said, having a Chapter descended from any loyalist Chapter is possible (except Space Wolves).

 IllumiNini wrote:

Jehan-reznor wrote:You could however have fabius bile make a copy of them as some of them [Custodian Guard] have fallen during the horus heresy.

If I ever write a CSM Warband/Successor Chapter, that (or something like that) would definitely be high up on my list of ideas to try.

Might be an interesting background for a Chaos Lord, but not for an entire Warband.

 IllumiNini wrote:

Fair enough. Because I want to try and create something a bit more unique and interesting than "Here is a Codex-Compliant Chapter Founded using the gene-seed of the Ultramarines (or descendant Chapter)." A Legion/Chapter like the Salamanders or the Iron Hands would definitely alow me to do that. Tratier Legions, too.

Unique and interesting chapters do not happen because you give them an impossible heritage. You're looking at the window-dressing, so to speak. Any chapter, regardless of origin can be interesting and unique, but it is because of their story and what they do in it.

If you want a Grey Knights-like Chapter go with a Thousand Sons successor (a la Blood Ravens). Or go with another Traitor Legion successor with an "official" loyalist cover up (a la Silver Skulls).

Aren't the exorcists GK siccessors?

Just saying, but really, your chapter can be descended from any of the original Legions (bar the Space Wolves), but really does it matter?

The chapter might not really have much to do with their progenitor, so really, being descended from the UM, DA or IF (the most likely culprits) isn't a huge issue. Their combat doctrine might be different enough to warrant a different chapter tactic for game purposes, and doesn't completely define what the chapter is.
Not all UM successors follow the codex blindly and have Greco-Roman themes, and not all DA are robe-clad secret carriers with a penchant for plasma.

To succinctly answer, your chapter can be from any of the 8 First Founding Legions that aren't named Space Wolves. Some are more likely than others (Ultramarines are the most common by a huge margin, Blood Angels and Salamanders are the least common because of gene-defects and whatever it is that makes the Salamanders unfavorable).


That said, an early pitfall/trap that players fall into when figuring out their custom lore for their chapter is getting too wrapped up in the geneseed their Chapter comes from.

That doesn't lend any uniqueness to a Chapter at all. If anything, it sticks you in a trope. Hence why so many Dark Angels or Blood Angels fan-fic successors sound like Direct to DVD knock-off versions of their parent Chapter. The Transmorphers of 40K.

Figure out what you want your chapter to be and do. Outline just about everything first, and then, at the end, come back and give them a genestock. Your results will be sooo much better. Don't worry about what Chapter Tactics or army list you are going to use. Your fluff is your fluff. How you play on the tabletop is how you play on the tabletop.

Like it's been said above, and I always advise in these kinds of threads, not all successors look like their parent chapter. Some Ultramarines successors are doomy and gloomy with death cults like the Mortifactors. Nothing about the fluff of the Mantis Warriors suggests that they use an excess of bikes or landspeeders like the White Scars. The Black Templars certainly fight nothing like the Imperial Fists.

From a fluff perspective, nobody is a Space Wolves successor. Does that mean you can't use Codex Space Wolves to represent your clannish Raven Guard successor? No.

From a fluff perspective, new chapters are almost always Ultramarines*. Why? Because the Imperium is an "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" type of institution. They know that Ultramarines geneseed almost always works, and it comes more or less intact. Dark Angels geneseed is similarly intact, but nobody trusts them, and rightly so. Who wears their bathrobe into combat? Nobody I trust, for sure. But, in the end, at least 667 out of 1000 chapters are Ultramarines successors. That means, even if you evenly distributed them, there are less than 50 successors for the other chapters, each. It's not an even distribution, but keep that part in mind. There are well over 600 Ultramarines chapters, and probably less than 100 Imperial Fists chapters.

In summary, figure out what makes your chapter the way it is. Give it heroes, give it a history, a home planet, a fleet, etc. Then, when you have all that, give it a geneseed. That way you'll avoid giving it some silly trope/theme. Being Ultramarines doesn't make your home-brewed chapter boring any more than being White Scars makes it exciting.


*How do we know this? Well, the Ultramarines were just over half at the time of the 2nd Founding, and they are roughly 2/3rds in M41, so they have increased by roughly 15% as a percentage of the SM population. We know they stopped making Blood Angels after the 21st Founding because the Lamenters were an effort to "fix" the BA geneseed, which suggests the AdMech knew it was broken in the first place. The Ultramarines increasing by approximately 15% tells us that as some chapters of other heritage die off, they are replaced by new Ultramarines successors.

Could a Successor Chapter come from another Successor Chapter? For example, a Chapter coming from the Storm Lords.

Good question. The answer is - kind of.

The geneseed is only used in a new Founding if they can tell how good its purity is. So they would be able to tell what kind of stock it is usually. Pretty pure = Ultramarine etc.

So there are no Successor chapters to a Successor Chapter. Just a generic this chapter is using Ultramarine stock.

 Anfauglir wrote:
If you want a Grey Knights-like Chapter go with a Thousand Sons successor (a la Blood Ravens). Or go with another Traitor Legion successor with an "official" loyalist cover up (a la Silver Skulls).

Or:
As example:
*Go with a chapter from a very advanced human world/forgeworld. As such their cool abilities derive from advanced tech (which most of it really is anyway, just tailored to fight warp creatures).
*Alternatively go with another marine chapter that has dedicated itself to aiding the Inquisition. Because of this alliance they have been given advanced tech similar to Grey Knights.
*Have them AS Grey Knights- a company based on Planet Bob to deal with the high number of chaos disturbances in the area.

Use the chapters you want, make your own fluff of daring deeds, tradition and history. Any successor chapter is going to develop its own culture over time, as events and environment shape it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 WarbossDakka wrote:
Could a Successor Chapter come from another Successor Chapter? For example, a Chapter coming from the Storm Lords.

Remember its also a tactics thing. There's no reason a successful Successor Chapter can't spawn off a new chapter on orders and agreement from the IoM. You need the initial ad mech support (from the chapter or from the usual vaguely creepy gear heads we know and love), we need apothecaries to oversee the physical process of marine creation, and we need a Sergeant Bob to instill training and tradition into the new recruits.

The Space Wolves are the one chapter with no successors. They tried it once - the Wolf Brothers - and it didn't end well. The Canis Helix apparently now reacts incredibly badly with any non-fenrisian DNA. Makes you wonder what happened to the terran-born Space Wolves legion troops.

Actually several Space Wolves in the Heresy books are said to be terran-born....I think? I might be wrong though.

locarno24 wrote:The custodians explicitly never leave earth since the heresy, though.

The Thunder Warriors....there are a few who escaped what happened to them and survived, and given the 'scrappy' nature of their enhancements, it's not unreasonable that someone might have the tech to create them.

Would be very cool, but may also fall under the Mary Sue category. Nevertheless, it would be fun to write some fiction for that.

Anfauglir wrote:If you want a Grey Knights-like Chapter go with a Thousand Sons successor (a la Blood Ravens). Or go with another Traitor Legion successor with an "official" loyalist cover up (a la Silver Skulls).

Was thinking that. The only three options I could think of for having a psyker-heavy Chapter was to do Grey Knights (busted), Thousand Sons, or genetic mutation (near busted given the apparent consensus of the comments).

TheCrusadeSmurf wrote:Aren't the exorcists GK siccessors?

Let's not open that can of worms.

Frazzled wrote:

 Anfauglir wrote:
If you want a Grey Knights-like Chapter go with a Thousand Sons successor (a la Blood Ravens). Or go with another Traitor Legion successor with an "official" loyalist cover up (a la Silver Skulls).

Or:
As example:
*Go with a chapter from a very advanced human world/forgeworld. As such their cool abilities derive from advanced tech (which most of it really is anyway, just tailored to fight warp creatures).
*Alternatively go with another marine chapter that has dedicated itself to aiding the Inquisition. Because of this alliance they have been given advanced tech similar to Grey Knights.
*Have them AS Grey Knights- a company based on Planet Bob to deal with the high number of chaos disturbances in the area.

Use the chapters you want, make your own fluff of daring deeds, tradition and history. Any successor chapter is going to develop its own culture over time, as events and environment shape it.

Fair enough. No Forge Worlds though. The Mechanicus would have a field day if that was tried haha

AegisGrimm wrote:

The Space Wolves are the one chapter with no successors. They tried it once - the Wolf Brothers - and it didn't end well. The Canis Helix apparently now reacts incredibly badly with any non-fenrisian DNA. Makes you wonder what happened to the terran-born Space Wolves legion troops.

Actually several Space Wolves in the Heresy books are said to be terran-born....I think? I might be wrong though.

Before they found Russ, where else would they have come from?



So the consensus seems to be that the fluff makes the Chapter (which is very true). I just figured the gene-seed could play a major role in explaining certain things (like the prevalence of psykers, or the fact that the marines may be taller on average than most other marines, or something like that).

Every single loyalist legion had, at some point, at least one successor chapter. As to which chapters might have successor chapters as of M41, the answer is that all but for the Space Wolves are confirmed to have active successor chapters. However, even with the Wolves there is a bit of fluff grey area, or wiggle room, that you can work with. We know it is possible to circumvent the wulfen issue, but the only research that we know of that would have led to a usable "cure" was destroyed at the Battle of the Fang. Despite this though, there is no reason that you couldn't write yourself some way around that, especially with things like the Dark Founding. So, really, you can write up a successor chapter for every loyalist legion. It just might be easier for some compared to others.

 Quickjager wrote:
Good question. The answer is - kind of.

The geneseed is only used in a new Founding if they can tell how good its purity is. So they would be able to tell what kind of stock it is usually. Pretty pure = Ultramarine etc.

So there are no Successor chapters to a Successor Chapter. Just a generic this chapter is using Ultramarine stock.

Not entirely true - successors to successors are often founded and raised under the wing of their parent chapter (see Astral Claws/Tiger Claws), therefore inheriting not just a genome but also divergent traditions and force organisations. These will in turn drift a bit over time as the chapter's experiences forges its own identity.

Equally, the primary requirement is 'stability' - many chapters do develop minor but stable mutations in their geneseed that are determined to be 'acceptable' and might be passed on to a successor. But it'd be something far more narrative than a serious thing like the Black Rage or Curse Of The Wulfen; good examples are the Iron Snake's only-partially-working Betcher's Gland - it functions, but is filled from toxins filtered out by the Oolitic Kidney, not naturally produced ones - or the Soul Drinker's over-active Omoephagea, allowing them to ingest more than just vague memories.

 TheCrusadeSmurf wrote:
Aren't the exorcists GK siccessors?

Spiritually speaking... Sort of.

They're primary purpose is also to fight daemons - like the grey knights - but that is where all similarities end. Whereas the grey knights rely on psychic powers to assist them in combating daemons, exorcists rely on themselves becoming blanks to fight daemons which render them pretty much invisible to said daemons. Grey knights have to recruit from a very small pool of psykers who are worthy of being space marines, while on the other hand, exorcists go about their recruitment in typical space marine fashion with exorcising a daemon out of you being tacked onto the process (which makes them effectively blanks). Thus Grey knights fight the warp with the warp while exorcists fight the warp by becoming pretty much the antithesis of the warp. That in mind, grey knights use geneseed crafted of the emperor's own DNA which probably assists them in retaining their purity and might even boost the potency of their psychic powers. It wouldn't make sense to use that same geneseed for a group of blanks.

Oh, and the existence of Grey knights is supposed to be secret for several reasons (one of which might be their emperor geneseed) with normal humans either being killed or mind wiped if they ever lay eyes on the grey knights/happen to be on the same planet that the Grey Knights save. The Exorcists existence isn't top secret special personnel only nor do they have a "kill-or-lobotomize-you-for-being-saved-by-us" policy.

locarno24 wrote:
The Second Founding wasn't a 'proper' founding, but just saw the legions broken up and handed a fiefdom as a homeworld, keys to a proportion of the fleet and several crates of coloured primer.
..
The Space Wolves are the one chapter with no successors. They tried it once - the Wolf Brothers - and it didn't end well. The Canis Helix apparently now reacts incredibly badly with any non-fenrisian DNA. Makes you wonder what happened to the terran-born Space Wolves legion troops.

Does this mean the Wolves only had 2000 survivors at the time of the 2nd Founding? How else would they get away with only 1 attempt at a successor, considering the UMs where going to go to war with the Fists for refusing to split and the Codex says 1000 max?

keep in mind that you don't NEED to have special geneseed to have a fairly unique chapter. you can create a pretty highly varied chapter.

Awhile back I put together a codex chapter named "the rising suns" pretty generic chapter. but with a bit of a feudal japanese overlay. each of the marines would have a Daisho, company captains would have the title Dayimo, with the chapter master being called Shogun. I always thought it worked quite well.

Space Wolves do have Lost Companies for you to build upon. It's not quite the same as they are ultimately still Space Wolves, however they can have wildly divergent colour schemes, tactics and beliefs as they represent large Astartes forces who have split from their Wolfy brothers for a variety of reasons. Lost in the warp, disagreement with former leadership and missed the memo when the old Great Wolf snuffed it, a drive to work more closely with Imperium institutions... your Company can look and act however, informed by their heritage.

Or simply make a Space Wolves successor. Its a big fun universe. Sure it might get the odd person worked up but its your game and models. Adhering to the background is fun for some, but if you want to create rather than build upon preexisting lore then go wild, regardless of reception.

Who started this Silver Skull rumor? They are Rogue Trader era chapter. I think Dantioch's story is just coincidentally relatable to the Silver Skulls. The SS I think are just a chapter that's so old no one really knows where they came from anymore.

I love Dantioch and it would be very romantic in a classical sense for him to be given a 2nd Founding chapter but I think it's unlikely.

 JustALittleOrkish wrote:

locarno24 wrote:
The Second Founding wasn't a 'proper' founding, but just saw the legions broken up and handed a fiefdom as a homeworld, keys to a proportion of the fleet and several crates of coloured primer.
..
The Space Wolves are the one chapter with no successors. They tried it once - the Wolf Brothers - and it didn't end well. The Canis Helix apparently now reacts incredibly badly with any non-fenrisian DNA. Makes you wonder what happened to the terran-born Space Wolves legion troops.

Does this mean the Wolves only had 2000 survivors at the time of the 2nd Founding? How else would they get away with only 1 attempt at a successor, considering the UMs where going to go to war with the Fists for refusing to split and the Codex says 1000 max?

Little is known of the Wolf Brothers beyond the facts that upon their Founding they were issued with exactly half of the Space Wolves fleet, arms/equipment and priests available at that time,[5a] and were intended to be the first off-shoot Chapter created from the Space Wolves as part of a grand plan to create a force termed The Sons of Russ, who would be posted in a galactic circle around the Eye of Terror in an attempt to prevent the Traitor Legions from ever invading the Imperium. However, the swift degradation of their genetic viability quickly made it clear that the gene-seed of the Space Wolves was almost impossible to use to create another Chapter, and the Sons of Russ plan died alongside the Wolf Brothers.[5a]

And that's all we know.

SickSix wrote:I love Dantioch and it would be very romantic in a classical sense for him to be given a 2nd Founding chapter but I think it's unlikely.

Pharos spoilers:

JustALittleOrkish wrote:Does this mean the Wolves only had 2000 survivors at the time of the 2nd Founding? How else would they get away with only 1 attempt at a successor, considering the UMs where going to go to war with the Fists for refusing to split and the Codex says 1000 max?

Well, the latest FW timeline mentions an event known as The Wolf Cull occurring in the final years of the Heresy, so it's certainly possible.

jareddm wrote:

SickSix wrote:I love Dantioch and it would be very romantic in a classical sense for him to be given a 2nd Founding chapter but I think it's unlikely.

Pharos spoilers:

Spoiler:

Sadly, he is dead. Although it's possible that a group of Ultramarines found the Silver Skulls in his honor

JustALittleOrkish wrote:Does this mean the Wolves only had 2000 survivors at the time of the 2nd Founding? How else would they get away with only 1 attempt at a successor, considering the UMs where going to go to war with the Fists for refusing to split and the Codex says 1000 max?

Well, the latest FW timeline mentions an event known as The Wolf Cull occurring in the final years of the Heresy, so it's certainly possible.